Two points: 1) Root-to-root transmission of RMV appears to be possible, but my impression is that it's of very low probability. 2) In my experience, when you dig up a first-year rose in zone 5, the roots are mostly in the original rootball and there's no problem with removing 100% of the plant. All in all, I wouldn't worry in the least about spreading rmv to a new rose in your situation.

I'm of the school that RMV need not prove fatal to the future of a rose. There are more severe cases of it then others, and how severely your roses is infected can determine whether you want to keep it or not. Some reports suggest that it might possibly lessen winter hardiness. Certainly as Mike says, if you leave it until next year to see what's what it will not impact the next rose you plant in its place. Whatever you decide to do, Dutch Gardens would not be the place I would choose to shop for your next rose. There are much better sources.

I agree that it doesn't necessarily kill roses. In my case RMV rarely has. However, there are both the matters of the unsightly leaves (when they express symptoms, and they don't always do so, especially if one's climate is a warm one) and also reduced vigor.

Like most aspects of life, the significance of RMV "depends". I have an antique moss rose, Salet, that is RMV-infected, but grows just fine (except for the RMV symptoms in the leaves of the spring flush). Usually its canes don't even die back at all except for the very tips (& thus I'm convinced it must be winter hardy well into zone 5 and most likely even colder).

However, I know for sure that if I was growing a rose that was marginally hardy in my zone 6 winters (like, say, Mutabilis), or had a reputation for being a naturally weak grower (eg., Sterling Silver) there's no way in the world I would ever want an RMV-infected version of that rose!

anntn6b from Tennessee cites fairly recent research indicating that in the right circumstances RMV may pass from the roots of one rose to another, if those roots form a natural graft underground.

In your circumstances, I find it very, very, very unlikely that there would be any root transmission of RMV from the rose you removed to the RMV-free rose that you planted in the place of your Maria Stern.

Far and away the normal mode of transmission for RMV occurs during rose propagation in the nursery fields. If the rootstock is RMV-infected (as it very often is if that rootstock is Dr. Huey, as it usually is if the roses are propagated in California, as most American roses are), then once the graft has successfully "taken" the virus will move from the rootstock into the scion. That's almost certainly why your Maria Stern is now RMV-infected.

Go to one of the mail order nurseries recommended on this forum that has a reputation for growing RMV-free roses and your luck with that disease should be much better.

Thankyou all! I thought I was stuck. While Maria would probably do ok for a while, and no one else would know from the road that she's infected, I would know! Everytime I walked by her! And to tell you the truth, I don't really like her color either. I'm sure other's like suck a vibrant colored coral rose, but to me she looks like a plastic rose. She also came with waxed canes.
I just think I would feel so much better if I got it over with and took her out and planted a "healthy" rose there. I say "healthy" knowing that one never knows for sure if a rose is infected right when receiving from nursery or mailorder.
I did order an Easy Does It rose from Regan Nurseries. But, then I still don't know what their policy is on "virus-free" roses. Could be I would be trading one for another.

Call and ask the place if their roses are virus-indexed, which is what you want. I know Roses Unlimited has lots of virus-indexed roses. I usually email them about any rose I'm interested in and they usually respond quickly with that info.

Of course, at Roses Unlimited,you have to order a minimum of 3 roses.

Kate

I called and the woman on the other end said no they don't have any guarantees at all! Looks like I will be sticking with Heirloom or Roses Unlimited next time.

Mike Rivers, can you expand on what you are basing your impression on when you state: "1) Root-to-root transmission of RMV appears to be possible, but my impression is that it's of very low probability."

The only published report that I am aware of (from experiments carried out in a relatively high temperature climate - Univ. Cal. Davis) found: "Virus spread was observed in multiple trials in which healthy bushes were planted in close proximity (approximately 30 cm) to virus-infected bushes. Over the course of one year, approximately 10% of the healthy plants became infected. After two years, rate of virus spread ranged from 0% to 48% to depending on virus strain and rose variety"

Here is a link that might be useful: Davis abstract

I've never lost a rose due to RMV. I've never shovel pruned one if I had one either. I've noticed little loss of vigor or lack of growth or blooms on obviously infected plants. I don't know if it's due to my climate or my acceptance of the varigated leaves which don't appear on any of my infected plants until late in the season.
AAMOF, I don't recall seeing a RMV leaf on any of my roses for a number of years and I do have some RMV infected plants. Perhaps it's due to the same reason insect damage doesn't bother me, I ignore it!

karl, I guess that's why I was worried about why was Maria already showing signs at the get go. Maybe she's further along in the virus. She's already showing the yellow patterns on the leaves, and she's only given me one bloom all summer with only 5 buds. I don't know. I too hate to shovel prune anything, but I needed to decide now what to do with her, keep her or not, because if I did decide to sp her, it would be better while her root system hadn't grown into the surrounding soil much yet.

karl_bapst_rosenut, your leaf symptoms do not appear until late in the season?

I wonder which rose virus you have, and/or if it is actually a virus causing your leaf problems.

Like I said, I ignore the symptoms and am to the point I tend to overlook them.
Poor performing bushes get lots of horse manure ammended into the soil throughout the years. This seems to help them overcome the loss of vigor and grow normally. Giving up on a RMV bush because it's infected,as many seem to do, hastens its demise.
The only roses I give up on are those infected with RRD.

I've decided to keep her and tend to her. I'll hope for the best. There is no real reason at this point in time to sp her. When I see her next season I'll know a little more. But for now she gets the same treatment any of my small amount of roses gets :)

Henry,
You need to get the whole paper of the Giolino et al paper from UCDavis. There is another paper in press from them with more info, FWIW.
Root to root transmission is known in many other members of Rosaceae.

I'd guess that many roses from north of the Ohio River loose their canes after winter. That reduces the titre of virus in the plant. When spring growth starts, the titre is low and it builds over summer, then stressful fall weather brings it out on new fall growth.

This would mirror the appearance of Rose Spring Dwarf which doesn't appear in all climates, except when conditions are favorable and then it does. I've got one Hybrid Perpetual and RSD showed up on only one cane (the one growing in a relatively protected location) but not on the three more exposed. (They have proved RSD to be a virus...paper is in the same vol as the RMV root to root paper).

Have you ever grown or seen Rosa multiflora watsoniana? Remember when the RHA member from the south of France reported seeing the "watsoniasation" of roses growing next to watsoniana?

We've opened this can of worms before: some nurseries do not offer any "guarantee" that any specific variety is sure to be virus free, while others proudly state that they absolutely "guarantee" their roses to be virus free. The former is often criticized for being completely honest about their stock, while the latter gets more business based on their questionable "guarantee" policy.

The truth is that every nursery I have bought from, Heirloom included, have occasionally sold me a virused plant. Its unavoidable; often the merchant has never seen symptoms on their plants, but lack of visual symptoms is not an indicator of a variety's virus status. Sure, some nurseries make more of an effort to ensure their stock is clean, but I do believe that not one nursery on this continent knows for certain the infection status of every single plant they offer. Its just part of the heritage of 100 years of an industry that ignored the problem. (In fact, they didn't even perceive RMV as being a problem!)

Ann I have the full 2007 paper. I normally provide the link to the abstract to avoid anyone wondering if I had taken anything out of context. Of course sometimes a specific point can only be made from a quote of part of the actual paper.

What may be missing in your model of the virus building up over summer is that, if it is PNRSV, experiments have show that the heat of summer decreases the above ground concentration of PNRSV. That is why I wondered if karl_bapst_rosenut's virus was a different rose virus, since it showed up in the fall. I am aware of other reports of fall virus symptoms. I again wondered whether they were also non virus effects on ageing leaves or a different virus than PNRSV.

Of additional interest in the actual Golino paper is that the observed rate of spread is higher in unpruned bushes than in pruned bushes. In another PNRSV infected plant, hops, this is attributed, in part, to the branches of neighboring plants rubbing against each other. Golino et.al. acknowledge this as they state (page 220-221): "The possibility remains that spread occurred by mechanical transmission due to contact between the leaves of the closely spaced plants and experiments are underway to test that putative mechanism of spread."

I assume that the "in press" article will say something about the contact experiments. I hope they also discuss that contact experiments, preferably, should be done in a cooler climate than that at Davis. Do you know which journal the new paper is "in-press" in?

Thank you for the "Rosa multiflora watsoniana" lead. My memory is not what it used to be.