I don't know about zone 7, but here Golden Celebration is a very large plant. Christoper Marlowe would be better in the pot: he is a more compact grower. Golden Celebration has sublimely beautiful and fragrant flowers.

Evelyn has the most beautiful flowers ever, but the plant is a diva, very fussy. Chris Marlowe is easy and a good one, ditto for WS2K. Mary Rose--I would try another pink Austin like Bishop's Castle instead--Mary is good but rebloom can be slower than average.

Teasing Georgia really wants to be a climber. It gets very large, very fast. The first year for me, it only grew stems and leaves. Bloomed more the second year, but it didn't like me very much and didn't survive. There are others who have beautiful photos of their plants. But, it is a big one for sure.

You don't say how tall you want them to be or how wide of a space that you have. That info would help.

Golden Celebration is 6 or more ft. tall here, and easily 6 ft across at the top.
Of course, this is SoCal . . .

Jeri

That's a lot more Austins than I have-- but then, I've planted them in several locations. Overall, I've found that most of them need as much care and feeding as modern hybrid teas. They're beautiful, and often wonderfully fragrant, but they do require a lot of TLC. Several other breeders are creating roses of this type-- Kordes& Delbard to name two. And there's a series of roses called the Romanticas that has some good ones. I'm growing Golden Celebration and it was 5 ftX5 ft. the end of the first year-- a great rose!

Well, my area is about 5 feet deep and about 10-12 ft. long. Height is not a problem really because its in front of a deck which is pretty tall...about 6-8 feet off the ground. I was looking at the David Austin website and he recommends Golden Celebration for a pot....it seemed a little big for a pot....and then he has it listed under large shrubs...doesn't make sense to me.
But I'm not happy hearing they are fussy...I'm trying to get away from that...is it just some of them, and not all??
thanks,
Michelle

It depends on the blackspot pressure in your area. I have yet to find one that doesn't get significant blackspot without spraying in my area. Golden Celebration defoliated completely even with spray. Granted, I live in the BS capital of the world...it may not be as bad in your area.

Carol

Do you mean William Shakespeare or William Shakespeare 2000? If you are referring to the latter, I'm growing all of the Austins you mentioned except Evelyn and Golden Celebration (which is on its way as I'm typing though).

I LOVE Austins, so much so that they make up 98% of all my roses.

Teasing Georgia gets enormous and bloomed a whole lot for me last year, with the first flush consisting of well over 150 blooms. I ought to add that she was only in her second year last year.

Mary Rose is a wonderful shrub, blooms almost non stop for me, and is the first and last rose to flower. Unfortunately the flowers do shatter rather quickly in extreme heat.

Christopher Marlow arrived in my yard last year, and he had literally no winter damage at all and is coming back strong. He repeated quite well for me, too.

William Shakespeare 2000 is just gorgeous IMHO. Another one with no winter damage. He's only in his second year as well, but constantly had flowers on him last year.

---
Wendy

DON'T go by David Austin's size descriptions. They are derived from what the roses do in England.

Clair Martin came up with what I thought was a good rule of thumb. He said that if Austin's descriptions gave a rose as well-under 4 ft., it probably wouldn't exceed 4 ft. by much.

BUT if Austin thinks they are Four Feet Tall or taller, BAR THE DOOR, because they are going to be giants.

Jeri

Thanks a ton Jeri....you saved me a big headache!
Well, I finally decided on these:

Evelyn (got to have it, even if a little princess:)
Golden Celebration
Charlotte
Teasing Georgia
Alnwick Rose
Benjamine Britton
Queen of Sweden (may put it in a pot)

Y'all are great...thanks for your postings!
Michelle

Michelle, please do not put Queen of Sweden in a pot - it is a really strong growing rose - my first-year planting last year was about 6' tall by 4' wide :) Go figure.... Unless you have a monster pot...
Marina

There is a recent thread on Austins: Love and hate either on this forum or the general rose forum. Go back a page or two or three. It was a lot of fun. Personally, I wouldn't bet on any given Austin performing the same in two identical environments, even if they were both grown from the same cutting.

Dark lady,
What about Benjamine Britton in a pot? I want one on my deck, if possible. The DA website shows "Grace" in a really large pot, and it is stunning.

Michelle

Michelle,

First, where are you in zone 7? I'm in Virginia near to Richmond.

Benjamin Britton seems to want to get rather large....think potential climber. But, it stayed rather healthy for me in my no spray garden. I've got three of him I like him so well.

Grace, on the other hand is staying VERY small for me...perhaps a better pot candidate.

Robert

Robert,

I'm in North Alabama. We can have a day or two in the 10-15 degree range, but usually only about 3-4 weeks of really cold weather (for us) of temps. in the high 20s-30's. Usually we will have a dusting of snow.... Just enough for everyone to stock up on milk and bread :)

Sounds like you have a lot of Austins....are they fussy for you? I'm hoping they will be relatively easy for me, however, I may be in for a wake up call...but I'm still glad they're on the way!
Michelle

Michelle, I am growing two of the Austin roses because they are so beautiful and fragrant (Heritage & Golden Celebration). And I really do like them a lot. But they can never match the health found in the teas, chinas, polyanthas, & hybrid musks when grown in the south. I consider the Austins as supplemental roses in my garden, not the "main course".

Randy

Randy,

That is good to know...I have a "Maggie" rose also, which I am planning to get in the ground soon. My SDLM died...however, it didn't look too good when it arrived. So, we'll see how it goes with the Austins. Ya never know, but I looked at your list, and you grow some great roses...if the Austins don't do well, I might try them.
Michelle

Except for a virused Shropshire Lass, IÂve had fewAustins not thrive. Of your listÂve tried:
Mary Rose  A nice all around rose; one of my first. I donÂt have it now but kind of miss it.
William Shakespeare  I havenÂt tried this one because in my experience Austin has trouble producing true reds. I have the Dark Lady that seems similar and is nice enough though a little BS prone.
Golden Celebration  hated it. I donÂt like bright yellow but was taken in by the description. For me it was a BS prone, thorny octopus, which balled or lost all itÂs petals in the rain. DidnÂt repeat well either.

Of the austins I would recommend will little hesitation:
Heritage
Winchester Cathedral
The squier

EVELYN - In good conscience I can't recommend this cultivar for the novice. The bloom truly is the most beautiful in all of rosy creation but the plant itself requires some skill. A good alternative is TAMORA. The color is similar and the flower is beautiful in its own right. The shrub is a whole lot less work, stays a reasonable size, and repeats more. However, if you are insistent on growing Evelyn (and I can't blame you; Evelyn is a goddess) then get her growing on her own roots (grafted she is a Jolly Green Giant), limit pruning to general shaping several times during the growing season (hard pruning can cause her to pout and do nothing), and feed with organics rather than with liquid fertilizer (i.e. miracle grow). The formula of own root + careful pruning + organic fertilizers (alfalfa, compost, etc.) will yield a better, more refined plant. You can also try any one of the techniques (espalier, tuteur, pegging or self pegging) typically used with Hybrid Perpetual roses. Oh and one last thing. Be prepared to spray regularly with a fungicide to control black spot.

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE 2000 - an absolute must have! He is a most handsome rose. Growth habit is short to medium in height and slightly spreading; similar to a Gallica rose. Flowers are large, perfectly formed (like pincushions), and nicely fragrant. Color is a rich candy apple red that in cool weather progressively turns purple as the bloom matures. Young plants tend to nod the heavy flowers downward but this trait disappears as the plant matures (around 3 yrs). Stems are looooooong and good reliable repeat all season long. Shade tolerant too. The dark green, leathery foliage is a perfect foil for the richly colored blossoms. Just remember to keep the sprayer handy as the foliage is addicted to black spot.

Charlotte doesn't get a lot of recognition on this forum but she does well in my garden. Her foliage is pretty healthy and apple green. The blooms are gorgeous and fragrant. So far, she has not put out any monster canes. I pruned her to about 3 1/2 ft. and she is happily setting buds and thriving. I do not spray for BS or bugs and my Austins do ok without. I am sure I have a high tolerance for BS. I also dearly love my lizards and worms and lady bugs. Jude the Obscure- 2, Teasing Georgia ( a baby but growing as a climber),Abe Darby, Golden Celebration-climber, Molineaux- 3, Fisherman's Friend, aka Lovers' Delight and John Clare-3 are my Austins. I have tried these others but gave them away them for various reasons: Mary, WS 2000, Sophy's, Cottage Rose, and Gertrude Jeckyll. Evelyn was sp'd for severe and constant PM and BS. Some day I will buy Heritage from ARE on Randy's exuberant praise. Good luck! Buff

I'm not in your zone, but thought I'd mention that Evelyn has wonderful fragrance. The blooms are incredible as well. I feed it alfalfa and other organic fertilizers, it does well and repeats well.

I think you'll like the fragrance of Alnwick as well. Wonderful fruity, it's great!

I'm fortunate not to have disease issues so for me it's a matter of beauty and size. Abraham Darby is gorgeous here, I couldn't do without it. Mary Rose blew quickly and had thorns everywhere. Teasing Georgia is wonderful. Harlow Carr, Sister Elizabeth and Glamis Castle are beautiful smaller roses, although many people have had issues with Glamis Castle in other areas. Tamora, which many people love, to me was an unattractive bush and the flower color and shape didn't thrill me. It's really a matter of trial and error depending on your particular growing conditions and also on your taste, which is a very individual thing.

Good luck with your choices. I hope they all prosper.

Ingrid

I also called back and added Gertrude Jekyll....feeling sad about my SDLM dying, so I thought GJ seemed pretty close in appearance...hope all goes well.
Thanks so much for your experience, ya'll are great!
Michelle

I forgot to mention in my last post that EVELYN also requires careful positioning. The delicate apricot-pink color tends to fade to white in hot blistering sun. To preserve the color locate the plant in an area that gets some afternoon shade. Next to an East facing wall or fence is ideal.

Like I wrote earlier, this Diva requires a certain degree of skill (and intuition) to grow to perfection.

Image of Evelyn by Kathy9norCal-CA-9.
{{gwi:239496}}

Best wishes,

Patrick

Thanks for that lovely photo of Evelyn, Patrick. I'll be ordering Evelyn too this year.

Bamabutterfly -

Heritage is a superb rose - a reliable repeater with pleasant fragrance that waft in the garden during summer. I use this rose to make a statement in the garden rather than for flower cuttings.

I started off with Heritage, and then bought more DA roses, trying to find the "perfect" one. But in the end, Heritage is a rose that I can not live without.

Another rose that I highly recommend is "Jude the Obscure" and "Soeur Emmanuelle". I'll be ordering another JtO.

You need to have Jude if you haven't got one.

Patrick, I sure do appreciate those insights into Evelyn. I got 3 of them (J&P, own root bushes) on sale in November of '04, and they have stayed runty - never even achieved 3' here yet. I have avoided pruning them hard, and frankly did not prune them at all this year - and after reading your very good advice, I am glad that I didn't prune. I gave the three of them a good dose of Mills Magic at the beginning of this month, and hope this will be the year they "leap". I agree with you, when Evelyn puts out her large blooms, it is one of the beauties of the garden. Here in California, she doesn't have foliage issues, but she just don't get big for me. My friend Hoovb has an Evelyn which is the stuff of legends...8' x 8' lovely shrub, and there's a gorgeous large one at the Descanso Gardens in Pasadena.

I am going to continue to follow that regime you outlined and see if we can coax the one here a bit this season. She's got a ton of buds now...just a wee thing though.

Thanks again.

Jerome

Patrick,
Thanks for the gorgeous picture...What a stunner!! can't wait till she gets here :) and thanks for the advice...Now I'm totally re-thinking were I'm going to put her...I can see where an East facing wall would be good, however, she still needs 6 hours of full sun, right?

Hope I'm not over-thinking this, but I do want to have the best chance for blooms like your picture ;)

On the DA website, they have several roses listed that will do well in part-shade (4 hours sun), but Eveyln isn't listed with those....So, bottom line...she is not a "shade" rose, but does best with 6 hours of morning/noon sun, with protection from the hot afternoon sun?

Thanks,
Michelle

EVELYN needs 6 hours of direct sun. I've read a couple of negative reports from posters who've tried to grow her in partial shade.

I've grown this rose under two sets of conditions. The first time was grafted, in full all day sun, USDA Zone 7b, sandy loam soil. Gorgeous rose. My sister liked this rose so much that she took primary responsibility for it. It was from her that I learned Evelyn doesn't like hard pruning. Sis pruned to shape several times a year, training Evelyn as a large rounded shrub. Very beautiful but the rose required constant attention to control the growth. I later shovel pruned this particular specimen when mom's rose garden went organic.

Here in USDA Zone 6b Maryland, I grow her own root in a raised flower bed against an East facing fence. She will be starting her third year and is still a petite bush, perhaps about 3 or 4 feet tall. The growth habit has been ... well ... interesting. She has these short spindly canes and then once in while throws a long arching monster. I keep cutting the octopus-like canes back to the same length as the others. Her small overall stature isn't much of a concern. Most own root roses don't really start performing until their third year and Evelyn came as a really small band. The prevailing theory for this delay is because the plants spend the early years building roots.

However, I am concerned about Jerome's cultivars. If the roses where planted in 04 then they should be larger by this time. In fact, I've read that Evelyn can be gargantuan in California. Jerome might want to consider having his soil tested. I've been told that portions of CA have highly alkaline soil, which can be damaging for roses. Another answer for the poor vigor is RMV. I hate to say it but J&P roses always raise a red flag. In fact, I won't even buy roses form them anymore. I get my English Roses from Chamblees and Heirloom.

Hope this helps,

Patrick

Patrick,
please exscuse a very newbie question, but what is the difference between own root and/or grafted? I have seen this referenced several times and wondered what it means.

thanks,
Michelle

Thank you all for the good information on Austin roses. I recently ordered two bare-roots from the Austin website to be planted in full sun sandy loam: Evelyn and Abraham Darby. I was very glad to find lots of helpful hints on pampering Evelyn - I hope she and I get along!

I love my David Austins. I have Graham Thomas, Heritage, Mary Rose, and Bow Bells. I had some Brother Cadfael. They got just too tall without many blooms, but they were beautiful and had such beautiful canes. Also had a Gruss An Aachen (I don't think it did much and I took it out.) My favorite of these is the Graham Thomas with Mary Rose coming in second.

I live in So. Cal. and they grow HUGE here. Graham Thomas will reach above my porch roof. I really have to keep it under control. Yellow is not my favorite rose color, but Graham is wonderful. When Mary Rose has a good bloom, the blooms absolutely cover the bush.

Good luck with your new roses, I don't find them any harder to grow and I think you will love them. SharB

Own root refers to a rose that has been grown from a cutting so that it's roots are the same cultivar as it's flowers. Grafted refers to a plant that has the top grafted on to a root stock. They graft because some roses have very vigorous root systems yet lack the beautiful flowers or vice versa. When purchasing a rose it is easy to tell a grafted rose by the hump on the main stalk usually about 3" above the roots.

I grew Evelyn in Australia 12 years or so ago, I had her planted where she got morning sun until about 1pm.
She threw up long canes which I tied to lattice in a curve and she was a blooming machine.
She was a very vigorous rose for me.