I agree with Kippy. The only RMV I've ever seen formed a zig-zag pattern. My Earth Song has RMV and every early summer the leaves show the jagged pattern for awhile. (Then it disappears and the leaves look "normal" for the rest of the season.)

I don't think the pics above show RMV.

Kate

Check out the below pictures of RMV from Heirloom Roses. They all look different. I already compared with pictures of rust ... my neighbor's are NOT rust.

Some excerpts from Heirloom Roses:

"Rose Mosaic Virus is one of the more interesting rose ailments because it is highly variable and does not always present symptoms."

"Along with those unsightly leaf markings, RMV can cause reduced vigor, a shorter life span, and decreased bloom production in roses. Other symptoms include: stunted growth, shorter flower stems, leaves that are distorted, puckered or smaller in size ... decreased winter hardiness."

Last year I noticed that my neighbor's bush had 2 or 3 blooms max. This year her bush has 1 or 2 blooms with short flower stems.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom Roses on RMV with pictures

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, Jul 6, 13 at 21:49

I still don't think these pics on this thread show RMV. And they in no way resemble the examples on the linked pages--which do show the zigzags, by the way. I know you are trying very hard to be helpful, but the pics posted on this thread are unintentionally misleading, I fear. Sorry about that.

Kate

Also see the link below of pictures of a rose Kim Rupert posted recently with RMV .. The yellow markings or dots are variable.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kim Rupert's pictures of RMV

RMV is not a single virus and a disease pattern may be due to a rose having more than one rose virus.

For example see the leaf pictured in the following link:
http://www.olyrose.org/images/Mosaic-01%20copy.jpg

Then look at the link it came from:
http://www.olyrose.org/pests.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:296846}}

It was Michaelg's diagnose in the link that dawned on me that my neighbor's rose might be RMV, rather than a soil problem... since her other roses are healthy with dark green leaves.

I agree with what Michaelg wrote in that thread: "It looks like the world's most hellacious RMV outbreak, except I have never seen the purplish-brown color that appears on some leaves. RMV patterns are created by the absence of chlorophyll, and they are normally white, yellow, or light pink."

The below are info. that Henry researched from the below link: "Infected plants also show a decline in flower production and quality. Flower petals may show mottling, distortion, and line markings." I only see one distorted bloom on my neighbor's bush, with really short stem.

"In general, symptoms of virus and viruslike infections that are visible on the leaf may include overall chlorosis (yellowing) or chlorotic mottling; yellowing, or clearing of the veins; green or brown banding of veins."

"It is the mature, older leaves and canes that are visibly affected. Usually, the higher temperatures and drier conditions of summer inhibit virus or virus like activity in the plant. As a result, rose plants that had symptoms of infection in the spring commonly resume normal or near-normal growth in summer. "

We have the coldest and wettest summer in Chicagoland in 45 years, with lots of rain. It was 60 degrees on July 1. We have poor-drainage heavy clay with limestone, and flash flood since early spring due to heavy rain ... so it's both RMV and yellowing from too much water.

Pat_bama, who posted her RMV on Secret in the below link, wrote, "Water logging was mentioned. We were having a very, very rainy spring when the problem started…constant heavy rains for days at a time. Also, the bush has grown to be very close to a sprinkler head."

Here is a link that might be useful: RMV's on Secret Out in the Rose Forum

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, Jul 6, 13 at 22:44

Can you also take pictures of the reverses of those yellowing leaves, please, Strawberryhill? I've seen rust outbreaks look very similar to that here. I know rust isn't generally an issue where you are, but that doesn't mean it CAN'T happen. Thanks. Kim

Thank you. It's also possible it's simply stressed foliage. Pretty Lady gets spotting like that on its foliage when it is heat and water stressed, even though no disease appears present. Kim

RMV can present itself in different ways but it usually only does so when the plant is stressed out already for some other reason. So there could be other things going on with the roses that caused the RMV to show up. For the most part you only see it on old leaves that the plant is discarding on a healthy rose. I also have never seen it show up on so much of the plant like your pictures show. It's usually only on a few leaves at a time. They may well be RMVed plants but I think there's more going on than just RMV on your neighbors roses.

Seil is correct ... more than just RMV. Only ONE of her roses is affected, the rest are healthy and dark green just like my Stephen Big Purple.

I received 6 roses from Roses Unlimited this past June. I forgot to take the plastic bag off from 2 roses, After sitting in those plastic bags with non-stop rain for days, those 2 roses turned completely yellow.

I think it's both RMV on her particular rose and turning yellow from poor-drainage clay, and too much rain. Her other roses nearby are healthy and dark green ,,, healthier and spreading roots can handle excess water better.

When the root is damaged from Virus, it can't handle excess water, just like the confined-roots of the roses I got on sale, sitting in plastic bags filled with water.

I'm re-quoting the info. that Henry posted on RMV: "Usually, the higher temperatures and drier conditions of summer inhibit virus or virus like activity in the plant...."

I found an excellent link that shows the high variability of RMV in expression ... all different from each other, from New Mexico University, see an excerpt below:

"The symptoms are highly variable, depending on the variety, the virus and the environment. Some of the more common symptoms include; chlorotic bands or ringspots, wavy lines,yellow vein banding, oak-leaf pattern, and general mosaic (splotches of yellow and green on leaves). Color-breaking (mottled flower color) has also been reported in some cultivars. Symptom development on only a portion of a plant is common. Some infected plants never express symptoms. Symptoms usually appear in the spring and remain throughout the growing season."

My neighbor rose has those mottled-yellow leaves for the past 3 months, since early spring. That rose was 100% healthy entering the winter, but emerged in spring diseased. What Henry wrote is right: RMV is more severe in cold zone. My zone is 5a, with -20 degrees below zero in winter.

Here is a link that might be useful: New Mexico University's pictures of RMV

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 6:50

Patterns of discoloration in RMV could be spots, mottling, banding, or zig-zag lines, but the most tell-tale signs are described by American Rose Society, see below:

"However, RM has been shown to cause flower distortion 2,3,4,8, reduced flower production 3,4,6,8,9, reduced flower size 8,9, reduced stem caliper at the graft union 8,9, ... increased susceptibility to cold injury 6."

My neighbor's infected rose had 3 or 4 flowers the first year, and none this year, except that tiny flower in the 2nd picture that I posted.

Here is a link that might be useful: American Rose Society on RMV

I am also looking forward to seeing photos of the reverse side of those leaves. If it is not rust, perhaps it is some other fungus type thing.

Jackie

I hope Malcom Manners notices this thread and can shed some light on the leaf patterns in Strawberry's photos.

I will try and remember to take some pictures of the patterns on my bosses roses, they were pruned wrong this year (all the new fat healthy canes removed and only the oldest woody ones left) and got a lot of RU over spray. Roses that normally stay pretty clean are full of zigzags (and Dr Huey) They are under stress this season and you can tell.

I took out one rose with some heavy patterning, it would rarely bloom and die back each spring. That was clearly an unhappy plant. I had one new rose put out a cane that shows something, but I expect that rose to be infected. And my new Princess Alexandra of Kent has some marks too.

I have roses here that MAY be virused, and I have roses here that are KNOWN to be virused.

While I've seen a wide variety of signs of virus over the last 30 years, I have not seen any that looked like that. NOTE: That doesn't mean it AIN'T that. It just means I've never seen it.

I HAVE seen what looks like that, and which in fact is rust. Again, that doesn't mean it IS rust. It just means that rust looks like that, here in Camarillo, CA.

I am told that there are different "strains" of RMV. (And there is also Apple Mosaic Virus.) Maybe some of them manifest themselves that way.

I HAVE had roses which were significantly weakened -- and which, when stressed, broke out in a wild fanfare of virus symptoms. BUT those roses had other problems (for example, a severe case of root gall).

Most of the roses here which are known to be virused perform wonderfully, and grow vigorously, and have done so for years -- or for decades. By which I am saying that while it's possible that virus may render a rose more susceptible to other stresses (such as winter kill) most of them are probably just fine, under congenial conditions.

And I would also really like -- for instructive purposes -- to see the underside of those mottled leaves.

Jeri

Here's the picture of the underside of the leaf, they are FLAT yellow dots, same as the top side. My neighbor rose doesn't have distorted stem as in rust, only the stem of the flower is really short (RMV description).

I checked the pictures and description of rust on rose leaves. Here's an excerpt from Royal Horticultural Society: "Rose rust is a fungal disease of roses causing orange spots (pustules) on the undersides of leaves and on distorted stems."

Here's another excerpt & picture of rust in the link below: "Rose rust first appears in the spring as bright orange pustules on leaf undersides, leaf stalks and branches. In the summer, small raised orange spots appear on the undersides of leaves with small yellow specks on the upper surface .... Leaves may become dry and twisted before falling off."

None of my neighbor's leaves have RAISED orange spots, and none of the leaves become dry nor falling off.

Here is a link that might be useful: Picture of rust on roses

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 14:14

Just for drill, I thought I'd get some images from here of RMV and also of rust.

Where's rust when you need it?

Having wandered around for quite a while, I came back with one leaf from Old Town Novato -- an old leaf, and worn out -- with ONE spot of rust on it. Best I could do. Sorry! I guess we've done a good job of eradicating rusty roses here.

I found that, as usual, there were no signs of RMV on Sombreuil (Cl.) -- though, very occasionally, I can find small marks. I did finally find it on Bishop Darlington -- a rose of overwhelming vigor and great disease-resistance.

For what it's worth, here they are -- demonstrating just how subtle they can be . . .

Jeri

Here's a picture of my neighbor Rock & Roll rose next to it, 100% healthy. If it's rust, why is her Rock & Roll so clean, not a speck of disease?

I hate to tell you, but that SURE looks like rust to me. As it matures, the pustules increase in size and thickness. Eventually, they can even turn brownish to black. The rose right beside it can be totally healthy because it is more resistant or perhaps the micro climate the infected plant sits in is more conducive. Perhaps there are mitigating factors in the infected rose such as something inhibiting the roots (gall, soggy, damage, etc.) Why can you be in a room full of people with the flu or colds and not catch it? Just as with different people, different roses have different immunities, different disease resistances. Stress the healthy rose sufficiently or let conditions worsen and the fungi mutate and it may well succumb, or not. Too many variables to guess. But, why do some of your roses have black spot while others near or even right by them not? Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 14:18

Here's another close-up, do you think it's rust? I'm puzzled since it's flat yellow, rather than RAISED orange dots like the pictures of rust shown on-line. No premature leaf loss as in rust either. I don't see any dots turning black as in the picture of rust in the below link:

Here is a link that might be useful: UK plant diseases picture of rust

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 14:21

I found a picture of rust below which infects the stem with raised orange patches. I spent 10 minutes checking my neighbor's leaves ... no infections of the stem, and the underside looks the same as the upper side. The yellow coloring gets larger, rather than turning black like rust.

An excerpt on U. of Illinois on rust: "Figure 3. Close-up of rose rust on the undersurface of a rose leaflet. The pustules are orange and turn black late in the growing season."

Thank you Jeri, for posting those pictures of the difference between rust and RMV. See below picture of rust on the stem of roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rust on stem of roses

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 14:41

Rust MAY affect stems, but it doesn't always HAVE to. It depends upon conditions, the plant's immune system, what stage of the infection you're witnessing, etc. I've lived with rust for more than forty years here. Whether you see greatly raised pustules, infection of the stems or blackened pustules or not, your neighbor has an outbreak of rust. Her other roses (or even yours) may, or may not contract it depending upon too many variables for me to list here, right now. But, what you're illustrating is rust, not a virus. Treat it with the fungicide of your choice, or wait for the conditions to get back to your normal, which don't usually support rust and it should clear up...eventually. That is NOT to say that plant may not have a virus as it may well COULD. But, the symptoms you've shown photos of are not viral, they are fungal and the fungus is rust. Kim

I watched a Youtube video on blackspot and rust, see link below. The rust in the video is orange raised dots, and very different from my neighbor's flat yellow flecks. I'm still puzzled.

Here is a link that might be useful: You tube video on rust and blackspots

I have to agree with Kim. I think that is rust.

Where y'all in many parts of the U.S. fight blackspot constantly, we have rust. I don't have any rust at present because anything that rusts badly just doesn't stay here. And yes. One rose can rust to a fare-thee-well, while the rose immediately next to it doesn't rust at all. That just means, one is highly-resistant to that fungus, and the other is not.

I wish I could have posted more rust photos, because (as with most other living things) not every example of rust looks precisely the same -- but I think that is rust.

Can you get a closer image? Or put leaves in a flatbed scanner?

Jeri

The yellow leaves started at the bottom in early spring (freezing March), then spreaded upward. Two blooms on the bush, that's all. I think it's a case of RMV yellowing plus weakening to the point of yellow rust, rather than orange rust. No black patches, only brown patches.

Jeri, that's the closest image I could get ... The underside all look the same as the upper side, no orange pustules whatsoever.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 15:13

That certainly looks like rust to me. I blew your picture up on my computer, and it looked more like rust to me. I have seen rust that color, and in the beginning it is not as three dimensional as it gets later. The first pictures you posted showing the tops of the leaves also looked like what I see on my roses which are susceptible to rust just before I go "eeewww" and turn the leaves over to see the rust. It may have started on the bottom of the plant because some spores were in the soil and rain or water splashed them up onto the lower leaves.

Also, some roses are resistant to rust - I have frequently seen rust on one rose, and non on the one right next to it.

The good news is, you can cure it - unlike RMV! Tell your neighbor to cut off ALL of the leaves with those spots on them, very carefully as the rust spores can float in the air. What I do is get a paper grocery bag and hold it under the leaves as I cut them off, so that they fall right into the bag, which I then seal and put in the garbage. Then I would reluctantly spray the entire plant, especially any new leaves which do not yet have rust, with a fungicide. Also, water the bush well. Keep checking for more signs of rust in the days ahead, and take off any leaves you see rust on, and repeat. Eventually the bush will produce healthy foliage without rust. The other thing you can do is shovel prune the bush and get one that is resistant to rust, but if it was healthy last year, I would give it a chance. It is very important to take off all of the rust leaves ASAP and dispose of them, because as I said the spores float in the air, and it can spread to other roses that way. You want to get that stuff out of that garden.

Jackie

Hi, Strawberry.

I'm chiming in for rust, too. It doesn't look exactly like my rust, but it's close! And as Kim noted, the surface of the spots becomes more exaggerated over time. I can't believe Abe Darby is still behaving himself this year! Consequently, like Jeri, I can't find any of the orange fungus in my garden at the moment. (I do have some anthracnose, if you care to see that one.)

I asked Dr. Manners for feedback on the link I posted showing 3 kinds of mosaic virus (on the other RMV thread), but I think he had other dialogues occupying him at the moment. Maybe he'll pick up your thread. I'd like to know about the "RMV" photo that resembles Josh's (and, somewhat, yours). Dr. M said the one resembling Anne's was chimeral.

Interesting photos, Strawberry. I find these disease conversations very informative.

Carol

This post was edited by PortlandMysteryRose on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 16:03

Jeri, did you just say "ya'll"? :-)

Carol

I'm afraid that my neighbor has both RMV and rust. The yellow leaves appeared in our freezing March, below zero ... I thought it was water-logged from wet snow. I checked on U. of Illinois on rust, and it said our climate of extreme cold and extreme summer heat doesn't encourage rust. More info from U. of Illinois on rust:

"The summer stage of the disease is the most conspicuous and serious. Very small, reddish orange pustules, which consist of powdery masses of bright yellow-orange spores, form on the lower leaf surfaces and petioles. Heavily rusted leaves may become twisted and wilt, wither, and fall off within 5 to 10 days from the onset of symptoms.

Infected young shoots may become distorted and turn reddish (Figure 2). In Illinois and most of the United States, masses of black spores begin to form during late summer or early fall in new pustules on the leaves and stems, or they gradually replace the orange urediospores in the old pustules. The black pustules may appear crustlike on the stems (Figure 4)."

Now I don't see any orange pustules, nor black pustules ... just yellow specks. It's like this for 4 months already. I watch for late summer and fall development, will report later.

Here is a link that might be useful: University of Illinois on rust and rootstocks

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 16:03

Looks like rust to me, too, Strawberry. My experience is as Jeri says -- some roses get it at the drop of a hat (Zephirine Drouhin, Abe Darby, Reine des Violettes, to name some I've known) while the rose right next to the rust bucket, even touching it, does not get rust at all. The rusty remains of RdV (pulled out 3 times time so far, going for a 4th) leans into Mrs. B.R. Cant, who never gets rust. I've never really noticed rust on rose stems.

If spores aren't readily visible with the naked eye, they usually are with a magnifier.

Also, as Jeri said, where's rust when you need it? A week of temps over 100 every day pretty much knocked out most of the rust that was out there (which WAS more than usual due to previously wetter/cooler-than-average weather). And, like Jeri, I don't tolerate rust-buckets, so my only examples are generally on young plants that are "on-trial". Even ol' RdV didn't have any active spots (he had it earlier), but I did find a few spots remaining on Mirandy:

Just 3 orange spots:

{{gwi:296852}}

Back of leaflet, rust spots at ends of pointer sticks:

{{gwi:296853}}

Another leaflet, another rust spot, at right:
{{gwi:296856}}

A potentilla "ground-cover" (weedy, invasive #$&@) was a virtual mat of rust a month ago -- I pulled most of it and the heat has killed most of the rust, but here's the back of a leaf, showing how it looks there (it had the classic, virulent-looking pustules a month ago):

{{gwi:296858}}

By the by, my apologies if, at times on the forum, my replies don't sync up with the rest. Sometimes I begin a reply, my little one calls, and by the time I post my reply, several others have posted between.

For example, I see that Jeri found a good example of rust vs RMV symptoms while I was paused for a chunk of time, so some of my reply was nonsensical.

Carol

I have not checked this out, but I would expect that if you put a drop of 3% drug store hydrogen peroxide on the spots, that will tell you. I would expect that virus would not cause foaming but a fungus or bacterial would. Of course run a blank by putting some on an uninfected leaf.

Maybe someone else with a known virused rose can check if the yellow on the leaves causes foaming.

I don't recognize it . I could believe rust. The fact that whatever it is is killing areas of the leaf leads me away from thinking it is any of the viruses that cause mosaic. Also I've never seen mosaic that exhibited as speckling like that.

Carol -- Yup. I said "Y'all."

Useful term.
My grandfather came from TX.

Jeri ;-)

Thank you all for taking the time to help me. Thank you Jeri and Catspa for those pictures of rust vs. RMV. My apology for not catching on to rust, since we don't have it here. Something is wrong with that rose, since it's yellowish at the bottom in March, when we had snow.

I went for the 3rd walk to that neighbor, rubbing my finger hard on the underside of the bottom leaves, there's this orange powder on my finger ... it is rust.

That rose was healthy, just like her "Rock & Roll" in its first year. But it was really stingy, I only saw one bloom late fall. After the winter, it got yellow leaves at the bottom. The yellow specks moved upward to the entire plant, now it's turning to rust in our heat & dry weather. Pretty weird.

The rose affected is Buck "Earth Song", very good fragrance, a tall grandiflora, hardy in my zone 5a. Is Earth Song a rust-bucket, or is it RMV-infected? Hopefully someone, or Kim or Ingrid can help me, since both have experience with "Earth Song". Ingrid posted a thread this past month on while her "Earth song" isn't thriving.

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 17:36

There are a lot of reasons for a rose not to be thriving -- and of course, not all of them are related to the cultivar. It could be a bad plant -- roots got dried out somewhere along the line -- could have root gall -- who knows?

But if it is a stingy bloomer, and is now covered with rust in an area where rust is rare -- I would prune it with a shovel. Life's too short . . .

BTW, and FWIW -- hydrogen peroxide does not bubble on my rust.

Jeri

(Who had to get the leaves out of the trash to make that final test.)

Thank you, Jeri, for testing that. I'll inform my neighbor about her Earth Song rose being a rust-bucket.

When I look over Jeri and Catspa's pictures of rust, it looks like that on the leaves of my Sonia Rykiel last summer when she was in a tiny plastic pot in full sun at 100 degrees heat. When I transferred her to my clay soil, the rust went away immediately. I have limestone clay, releases calcium with rain water.

I look over my old thread which I summarized Field Roebuck (Texas's book) on rose care. I'll repost the info. about rust here:

10) High potassium fertilizer encourages rust. This point reinforces #2 point that Mr. Roebuck made that calcium is very important in soil. According to Wikipedia, high potassium and high nitrogen both drive down calcium. Thus calcium deficiency is more likely the contributing factor for rust."

Something is wrong with my neighbor's rose Earth Song ... perhaps root-damage or RMV virus, which makes it less efficient in picking up water and nutrients from the soil.

I check a government website on the role of calcium in rust-prevention, here's an excerpt from the abstract: "Results indicated that plants growing in more stressful low-calcium soils experienced higher rates of rust infection, suggesting that soil calcium may modulate host susceptibility. See the link below:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19694134

Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is best for alkaline soil, but regarding the types of calcium best for acidic soil, I posted the info. in the English Roses Forum, see link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Types of calcium for root growth and disease prevention

Jeri and everyone out looking for rust should have called me! I should show you some rust! I have Don Juan, Mr. Lincoln and Simplicity (Abe looks good now cause I dug him up, stripped the leaves and put him elsewhere)

Strawberry, maybe this has something to do with your new rust experience: "We have the coldest and wettest summer in Chicagoland in 45 years, with lots of rain. " from an earlier post of yours.

The Earth Song I grew, and which is still in the family, is badly virused. I obtained it from a gentleman who was a musician and played a concert at Iowa State, meeting Dr. Buck there. They found they both loved music and roses. Dr. Buck took him to his green houses and handed him a plant of Earth Song. The man grew it in many gardens over the years and came to Limberlost Roses in Van Nuys, CA, looking for another plant as his was in decline. Bob Edberg, who owned the nursery at the time, listened to the story and suggested he wait until he checked with me. I suggested the man bring in cuttings, which he did, and which I sent to Burling at Sequoia. Burling rooted it, returning three plants to me. I kept one, and gave Bob the other two. The gentleman never returned for his plants.

A few years later, when Bob sold the nursery to a landscape company, he asked me if I would be interested in managing it. The company hired me and there were still the two Earth Song plants there. I sold both. All three of the plants propagated from the Earth Song Dr. Buck handed the gentleman are/were infected with RMV. I don't know where the other two went after they were sold, but the one I retained grows in my youngest sister's garden in Newhall, CA.

The lion's share of Dr. Buck's roses were introduced by Roses of Yesterday and Today, all being propagated on the infected Dr. Huey their contract budder used. I purchased BUCblu, Blue Skies, the year before it was commercially available from a "Texas consortium" of growers through an ad in the ARS magazine for a whopping $25, plus shipping. That plant was obviously virused. It expressed all the classic water marked foliage as well as unusually distorted leaves. I have grown 60+ of the Buck roses and MOST demonstrated the water marked foliage over the years they were in my garden. I have not grown any of his unreleased seedlings, put out after his death. But, if plants given personally by Dr. Buck from his work there at Iowa State have been infected, what's to say others propagated there and growing in friends' and family members' gardens weren't, also? Unless the Buck rose in question has been put through a virus clean up program, I would strongly suspect it to be infected.

Yes, Earth Song can and has rusted in my climate. Several of the Buck roses were extremely susceptible to rust here. The absolute worst, and ironically, one of my favorites of his roses, was Wandrin' Wind. It shouldn't have surprised me as it is half Dornroschen. ANYTHING closely related to Dornroschen has rusted for me. Dornroschen was bred from Pike's Peak, a hybrid acicularis. I have grown Pike's Peak and it rusted. I raised a self seedling from Pike's Peak, Beulah Belle, and it could rust, also. Nearly every hybrid rugosa (Conrad Ferdinand Meyer was TERRIBLE for rust, as have been all the Austin roses bred from it - Tamora, Sir Clough, Cressida) and hybrid Arkansana have been severe rust issues here. I don't fault Dr. Buck, or his roses, for the rust issues because rust resistance wasn't one of his breeding goals. His climate didn't HAVE rust. Kim

Oh, yeah! Simplicity can literally DIE from rust here. Eden Rose (as well as both the color sports, Red and White Eden), even the flower petals rust. Don Juan can rust fairly easily. French Lace, Queen Elizabeth, Taboo and many more, can be severely affected by rust in this area.

You are likely seeing rust now where you are due to the significant change in your climate this year over last. There is another possibility, too. As I stated above, MOST of the Buck roses were introduced budded on Huey through ROYAT. I'm not aware of any pre 1990 introductions being made as own root plants. While many appear to perform just fine, over a wide section of the country own root, that doesn't guaranty ALL will. Perhaps the issue with that Earth Song is a combination of own root, viral and climate/weather change problems? Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Sun, Jul 7, 13 at 23:26

Thank you, Kim, for the info. you gave. I'm glad you listed all the rust-proned: Tamora, Queen Elizabeth, some Buck roses, Conrad Ferdinand Meyer ....

My neighbor's Earth Song is grafted on Dr. Huey ... hers is the only affected one in this stretch of 400 houses. I have never seen any rose like her, so badly speckled. Last year I was so impressed with the health of that rose, but it emerged through our zone 5a winter looking like a mess ...

Kim, you explained it well, thank you very much. Also thank you Jackie and Carol for taking the time to explain about rust to me. Kippy is right that our wet summer stressed that virused rose further.

You're welcome, but that is not nearly "all" the rust prone roses. Those have been the highlights of some of the worst in my experience. There are MANY more which can and will rust here, but few, in my experience, as severely as the ones I listed. Kim

I hope my Tamoras aren't reading this thread. They haven't realized that they're inclined to rust. Shhhhh!

Please pass along my sympathy to your neighbor, Strawberry. Oddly, my Abe Darby hasn't rusted yet. PDX hit a hot snap of 20 degrees above normal a short while ago. I wonder if that broke his usual bloom and break out in disease cycle. He only developed minor blackspot on a few leaves which I promptly plucked. Now (not to jinx my garden) he's totally clean. Unprecedented!

Carol

My Earth Song--about 8 years old and moved at least 3 times--has RMV and has never had rust. The RMV hasn't seriously impacted my Earth Song, as far as I can tell. Here are a couple samples of its spring performance:

Earth Song--bottom right corner
{{gwi:259578}}

My daughter's pic of Earth Song several years ago and in a different location:
{{gwi:296859}}

Heavily pruned Earth Song--couple years ago after winter-freeze damage due to a lot of freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw fluctuations in early spring. That is the most severe pruning I ever had to give Earth Song, but as you can see, she bounced right back and had no trouble blooming again although she was shorter than usual as a result of the heavy pruning.

{{gwi:292621}}

Earth Song close-up--from about 6-7 years ago.
{{gwi:296860}}

Another Earth Song close-up from about 7 years ago. Wish it would hold that form for longer period of time.
{{gwi:205408}}

My conclusions, based on my experience with Earth Song:

1. Earth Song is NOT a "rust-bucket" in regions where there are NOT high rust pressures--which is most of America, I believe.

2. Earth Song is a fairly heavy and willing bloomer.

3. If Earth Song suffers from late winter freeze damage, heavily prune it back to good canes (with white centers) and it will spring back willingly with abundant blooms.

4. Under normal and usual Midwestern growing conditions, Earth Song exhibits good disease resistance (including good BS resistance).

5. My pics above show what a RMV Earth Song typically looks like and how it blooms. I can't see it is suffering much from being RMV. Sorry I don't have a picture of a leaf with the zigzag marking on it, but it never occurred to me to take a picture of it.

I just had to come to the defense of this good rose, given the beating it has taken on this thread.

Kate

'Earth Song' certainly seems to like your place, Kate!

Proper culture counts for something in roses, but I think location trumps even that. Rust and PM are year-in-year-out problems here, but BS virtually never. This year's cool spring and early summer gave us more BS than average and demonstrated why, though I am very much enjoying 'Fred Howard' (a Californian HT to its core), folks in BS-prone areas of the country might not be so enthralled with it.

Yup. Catspa is right.

I've gotten rid of roses because of intolerable levels of powdery mildew, rust, or both -- only to find them growing wonderfully in other parts of the country.

Likewise, roses which are martyrs to blackspot elsewhere are disease-free here.

Location, Location, Location.

Jeri

I would like to add, even in your own gardens there are zones that will affect plants. My rusty-mildewed mess simplicity is a prime example, it gets minor rust on the original plants, but the moved one is hard to tell it is a rose.

And RMV, I figure unless I buy something that has never been sold on Dr Huey EVER, is a seedling or treated, it HAS RMV. All of them. Every Austin, every florabunda, every HT, all have it, just a matter of if it makes any difference or not. I took out one plant that was highly effected, after 3 years of babying an old plant that had never done well, it was time to throw in the towel and stop fussing over that plant.

Guessing a really close look at all the leaves on the 400 roses in Strawberries area will show that some of the older leaves show some rust as well.

I agree with you about the desirability of Earth Song, Kate. Mine went to my sister's house because her conditions aren't as high rust pressure as mine were, though my old garden wasn't a high disease pressure spot. She wanted something large, full and colorful for the middle of her front lawn where she had removed a mimosa, but which didn't get twenty feet tall. Earth Song is quite happy there and requires nothing from her. That is perfect for her lack of gardening 'style'. Combine the provenance of the particular plant and you understand why it remains in the family. Kim

I'm with Kippy. I just don't worry much about virus.

I've never lost a rose because of it, and I don't think it's hampered the performance of any rose here (whereas, roses I've received that came with root gall -- those HAVE performed poorly, and been removed -- resulting in the discovery of their disease.

If I want a rose, and it is only reasonably available with virus, I'll grow it with virus.

Jeri

I think part of the problem is that with all the discussions recently of the incurable RRD (Rose Rosette Disease), some posters are confusing that disease with RMV (Rose Mosaic Virus) and are thus erroneously concluding that a RMV rose is a terrible condition that damages and destroys roses.

Maybe it does in a few cases (but I have never heard of such a case in real life). Like Jeri, I say "I've never lost a rose because of it, and I don't think it's hampered the performance of any rose here. . . . If I want a rose and it is only reasonably available with virus [RMV], I'll grow it with virus."

Kate