Judge for yourself:

Here is a link that might be useful: A

Paul Barden (aka trospero):
That is not the thread that created this issue, and you know it.
As you are well aware, the offending thread has been removed from The Antique Rose forum.
At any rate, you win ... congratulations.

Randy

For the record, Randy posted on the "other web site" with a message clearly intended to be antagonistic towards me, putting words in my mouth and forging a message suggesting I had "an agenda", which both the administrator of the web site and myself found inflammatory and untruthful. I guess that makes me the bad guy. So be it.

For the record, Paul deleted his previous comments on that website prior to bringing the issue to the attention of the administrator of that website.
Nice work.
Well, I've deleted mine too.
Paul, please, no more airing of dirty laundry in public.

Randy

... and stop sending private emails to me via my inbox on HelpMeFind.

Now gentlemen - as I know both of you to be. I know you are passionate about roses - all of us on this forum know that. And I am sure all of us appreciate that passion and your knowledge and enthusiasme. You are both assets to this forum and we listen to your opinions. By now we know about your discourse on "Pretty Jessica". You have both expressed your views and it has been interesting to read. Sometimes it is best to agree to disagree. It does not serve any of you - or us, to continue this discourse online. Please be the gentlemen, I know you are and do not resort to pouring concentrated glyphoshate into each others water tanks for irrigation - next. Please move on and look for the good things in each other and on this forum.

It HAS been a pleasure, Randy, and I for one don't think you should go anywhere. You've always been a sweetheart, so stick around and let the ones who love you help you get over the awfulness. How's your fall flush doing? You'll at least be posting photos, won't you? :)) We miss you already.

Bestest wishes,
Sherry

Well, I too am flabbergasted! I had no idea any of this has been going on. It is very sad. Randy, I will miss your photos and comments very much. Your posts always said something applicable to my gardening journey. And NEVER have I detected an unkind or haughty tone, much less overt nastiness. I am just speechless! I will miss your insight, Buff

Randy, please don't leave. I ignored the Pretty Jessica threads since I am not successful with David Austin roses, and just chose other threads.

You are one of the few posters or even people in my area who grow roses without chemicals. I know there are more, but I always look forward to your opinion.

Sammy

Randy,

You're right. It has been a pleasure. I wish you didn't feel you need to leave. However, since I understand why you think you need to, I'll just say that I sincerely hope your time away is brief. I appreciate your input here and will miss hearing from you. Come back soon.

A rose and fishing friend, Jeff

someone else gone. That's no kind of pleasure at all.

{{gwi:308939}}

Duchess, that is so true, and so good to see you. I replied to your e-mail and never got a response. I miss you. I want to visit with you. When are you going to PFTP?

Gean, you brought a tear to my eye.

Sherry

I'll miss you Randy. I always look for you posts - it seems we have the same taste in roses and similar growing conditions. I have so many roses you have enabled me to grow. Please do what you must then come back!!

Debbie

What the #@%@$@#$@!!! Randy is referring to me, and like with the other accusations, I did nothing of the sort. I did NOT send Randy any messages on any other site and I can't imagine why he got that idea.

Does anyone on this forum have a BRAIN?

Call me Polly Anna, Don Quixote or whatever, but I don't suppose you two could just suck it up and ignore each other for the good of the collective, i.e. the rest of us??? I think it would be a fabulous act of charity to us on your parts if you could do so (and no, I'm not being tongue in cheek).

I may have just stepped into the Twilight Zone and for that and like so many times in the past, I bid you adieu. Farewell, my rose friends. I cannot and do not try to understand this.

No, the moon is not full. I went outside and checked, it is currently waxing gibbous, 58% of full.

These things happen. You're both delightful human beings, with emphasis on "human." As the child of divorced parents, I'm not naive enough to think that everyone I like likes one another. C'est la vie. I'd prefer it if you two grown-ups would take it direct and stop interacting on public forums. There's more than enough room for both of you... and for me, for that matter, with my big mouth and strong opinions, to simply ignore one another.

Let's move on. Life's too short. Carpe diem.

Paul and Randy,
Now I know what the thread in question is. Niels is right. You're both gentlemen, I like you both, we need you both, please calm down as much as you both need to, and continue to participate--gentlemanlike.
Melissa

Oh my gosh ... this truly is the twilight zone. Bellegallica, please tell me you are joking, or teasing me. No way was I referring to you!

Randy

I've requested that this thread be removed from GardenWeb. Until the time that they are able to take that action, let's let this ridiculous issue die, with no further posts.

Thank you,
Randy

Sorry, Randy. My bad. I read your post and it sounded so much like another one that WAS directed at me that I lost it. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions and read it all the way through. I see now that you had someone else in mind.

I doubt I'll be around here much anymore, not because I'm angry or offended or wanting to storm off like a child saying I won't play anymore because things aren't going my way, but for two reasons.

One is I live in a climate that can reduce many a "superior" rose variety to a sniveling "inferior runt" in a matter of weeks. I'm going to leave this particular group of plants alone and grow the things that truly flourish here and that won't grow where roses flourish.

Second, if I do grow a rose (or any other plant for that matter) I will grow what I want, where I want, how I want, and if anyone else thinks they have something to say about it, I really don't give a #$@#$.

Good growing everyone and
Smooches!

(You guys think this is bad...Try going on a dog breeding forum, & let them find out your dog had "mixed" breed puppies. I was torn to shreds, insulted, belittled, threatened.) Let's all take a deep breath, and just let all past grievances go. Life is too short, and roses are too beautiful, for anyone here to fight about it.

Randy, you enable the BEST roses! Please please don't go!

It's a good thing to check out of online forums and move on. Dialog can really flare up and singe people's feelings.

Randy, you're a decent sort as I recall and your devotion to roses is obvious.

(After nine years with a few months'long times-off, I finally decided to permanently change my participation after a person on this forum implied I was 'dishonest' and 'insulting!' I had had enough. Now I open GW once a month, if I remember to do so, and just skim the headlines. I've read them all before.)

(back to twitter now)

Randy I think I remember you encouraging me to stay when I felt hurt and wanted to leave the forum. I certainly can't remember a time when you were rude to anyone. It appears that the folks with testy tempers are leaving. So why not stick around? It has been a pleasure and it still can be.

Randy, I hope you see this before this post is pulled...
I hope you're not gone long....PLEASE come back and soon!
I myself have been reluctant to post anymore but I love roses too much to stay away for good. It makes me sad that the one reason we all come here is to share our love for, and experience with, roses...yet we sometimes get belittled or hurt just for doing so....and this is supposed to be a HAPPY place for sharing, not fighting.
There is too much of that already out there in the 'real' world. I have always considered this place my sanctuary,
and all of you my friends. And Randy, you are one of the
most invaluable and treasured of them....so please come back!

Celeste

I've come to this site for years. It's always been a revolving door. A local plant membership organization I belong to also continues to surprise me when I occasionally make one of the meetings (schedule conflicts preventing regular attendance in later years): where is everybody? It still has not sunk in all the way that most of the old gang really has moved on.

People really can and often do become quite involved for a time in something, and then suddenly walk away from it.

... yup ... some just go, and some just go quiet, as they see history repeat too many times with always the pummeled being the young, enthusiastic and the energetic ... the old just decide to enjoy the roses for the roses and leave the last person standing yelling at the echoing walls.

Randy---a couple of years ago due to my inexperience asked a rather dumb question----

I truly can't remember what it was all about but it sure caused an uproar-

My feelings were hurt as I felt I was being attacked unfairly---

However most of the people are on this forum because they love roses and enjoy the beautiful pictures and wonderful advice.
Now I just try to ignore the people who feel it is necessary to be nasty and hurt others---

I never read the post in question but I'm hoping we can all come together as rose lovers.

Fondly, Florence

Well, I guess I'm not ready to walk away, but it's sad and frustrating that others have. I feel like I'm standing on a hill with my palm above my eyes, scanning the horizon for the rose friends I have come to value so much...but they're not there, and I miss them. I feel like pretty soon I'll be the only one posting. Did they find a better place? Will someone tell me where that is? I don't see why the nasty people have to win. (Now the thought occurs to me that maybe someone thinks I'm one of the "nasty" people they don't like.) I started coming here in 2007, and it's been wonderful for me. But this year there are fewer posts and fewer posters. I suppose people are free to choose their own way, but, boy, I sure have loved coming here. This last fiasco was upsetting, but I thought it was over and done. I've found 99+% of the people who frequent this forum to be wonderful, gracious, friendly people who gave me an outlet for my rose passion. I better start watching for withdrawal symptoms, and I probably should warn DH to beware of "rose diarrhea of the mouth". Without somewhere and someone to vent/share with, DH will be a sitting duck and may find himself on that slippery slope to catatonia. Plus, what do I do with all these roses without you guys? It's really not as much fun to have a passion by my myself. I'll just look like a fanatic. Just found this quote by Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". Ha! That's me!!! Well, I suppose I could view this as an opportunity to face my addiction and get professional help, but then what will I do with 98 roses? I think I need to start saving my money for sod. I know life is full of cycles, but this one's too short (and sweet) to end this quickly. Uh-oh, is panic a symptom of withdrawal?

Sherry

Here's to you, Randy

{{gwi:308940}}

Best wishes and hope to see you soon,
Jon

I intend to stay, and intend to say what I think. Sherry, you have company.

A huge problem with forums is that we all have our own agendas. I need to move my brain away from my prolems. Rest does not help me because I will obsess over things that bother me. But, coming here is very helpful. I can talk about so many things that have nothing to do with those things I cannot change.

I find these rose forums very helpful for me. Others are passionate about certain beliefs, and those subjects that interest me or entertain me, are very serious to some people. Some of the subject are chemicals, names of roses, nurseries, landscape designs, and on and on. We all know those subject.

Landscape design to me is to put roses in the ground, and build a bed around them. If the roses are not pretty, thrown them away and start over. A professional landscape architect would be terribly offended over that. I need to be careful.

Chemicals. I think they killed my dog. I don't want to hear any logic or any proof that it could not have happened. I would not understand it anyway, I have made my decision. I need to be careful because many people here make a living understanding what I so trivially declare to be my fact.

I teach school, and take that profession very seriously. I go to workshops whenever they are offered, and study night and day, weekends, and summers. It is serious to me. Every word said about education is serious, and I have a strong opinion about it. I must be very careful about threads that trivially (like my trivia stated above) criticize education or teachers.

I need to say this and also need to get outside. We are all so different, and sometimes we must stop talking and smell the roses. The thread in question no doubt became too serious, and I am so sorry for that to have happened to my friends. It is terrible when the wonderful forum full of friends becomes our source of stress.

How about just avoiding threads or comments that you find upsetting? That way we can all remain here. Very few people have my passions, and I don't understand others' passions, but I have so much respect for all of you. We come together when there are problems, and I hope we can stay together now.

Sammy

I hate to see you leave also Randy. I so enjoy seeing your roses, it amazes me that you have NO grass that I can see among your roses.
I have been here since 1999, lurking for a while here lately. After my Mom died in April I have neglected my roses and have enjoyed seeing how pretty everyone elses roses are.
I hate to come back and see lots of my old friends gone. I value your opinions and advice you all have given me over the years.
I'm ready I think to fiddle with my roses again. Shovel prune those that don't please me or just won't grow here in hot/humid hades.

I hope you don't stay gone long Randy.
David and I have just moved 5 roses and potted up 5. David griped at me the whole time because I had surgery Friday on my big toe and was out there helping. I can't help it, I didn't want to have any of them cut off at the ground when David vigorously thrust the shovel in to manly lift the 4 foot rose out of the ground. He didn't murder any of them I might add...(smile).

I put my Gruss Aachen out in the front next to clotilde suppert. I hope CS doesn't ball to badly. I know my Gruss will bounce back even better.

Love you all my rose buds,
Deb

Randy, you are a really nice guy who is able to express his point of view and support that view, without interference of ego or aggressive attitude.
I honestly can't say that about the other guy!

Please reconsider your decision!!

Patricia, I sent you another email - I never got yours! Gean

Randy - I think you are a very pleasant person. Just be glad you don't have to work with or live next door to the one who wants to pick a fight with you. What a nightmare that would be!

Try not to let it bother you too much. Just have pity on this sad dolt and laugh it off.

I've not read this entire tit-for-tat, and have absolutely no idea who may be right or who may be in the wrong. But, in the overall scheme of things -- considering the state of today's world -- it verges on abject silliness, doesn't it?

I learned long ago that all systems have their sacred cows. In some instance, one needs to intuit who the sacred cows are, pay them a modicum of homage and move on . . . I'm not at all sure that observation applies, but from the bit of the above that I perused, I think it might.

We are all so different, and sometimes we must stop talking and smell the roses.
How about just avoiding threads or comments that you find upsetting? That way we can all remain here.
Sammy

*** Sammy -- You make such good sense.
If things get too unpleasant, I suppose we can all just go somewhere else and talk about roses.
But it is sad to see people with valuable insights lost to the greater community.

Jeri

(Who doesn't recall what the argument was about, and does not wish to be reminded.)

I plan to keep on posting. I've made very good friends here, and look forward to meeting more of you face-to-face. I love telling people about the Sacramento cemetery, helping folks out if I can, hearing about other people's experiences, and seeing everybody's gardens and roses.

I got my feelings bruised a few times when first posting, but I learned from it, and stopped being so quick to offer advice to people in other climates.

Randy, I'll miss you, as I've missed many others who have moved on for one reason or another. It's a great shame that the love of the rose can't be enough to smooth over personal differences. Ralph Moore always thought that roses could be the way for peace to spread across the world. He was wrong about that, obviously.
Anita

Bless you, Anita, that was very well said.

There seems little use in even trying to speculate who was right and who was wrong; like so many things in life it probably falls into that vast gray area. All I know is that we are all losers when someone who is passionate and knowledgeable about roses leaves this forum, whoever that may be. I've sometimes had the sinking feeling that I have given offense with remarks I've made, or given advice when I had no business doing so or made a statement that was misinterpreted or erroneous. I had to forgive myself and hope that others would forgive me because I so much wanted to remain a part of this wonderful rose community. If one person gives offense, knowingly or unknowingly, is that really a good enough reason to forsake the forum and the rest of us? I sincerely hope not.

Ingrid

So you guys are going to penalize the whole community because you can't ignore each other and prefer to escalate into something nasty and hurtful. I think it's a great idea for you both to take a break and pout. Or have a duel. Or a gunfight.

And thank you both for dragging all the rest of us into your personal war. Most of us were happily ignorant.

Randy you're one the nicest people on here, and I hope you decide to stay!

I think taking a break will be helpful to both Randy and Paul. That last "thread" got really uncivilized and several forum folks (including myself) made comments they probably shouldn't have. I've had fights on this forum before (some pretty darn nasty) and have found taking a break gives all the hostility a chance to settle down. Remember, taking a break is just that - a break. It isn't forever.

BTW, this will be my last post for a while.

I feel as if Mommy and Daddy are fighting.

Even though I don't post very much, I've learned so much from this wonderful forum. It's so disappointing when some of the most knowledgeable people disappear.

Maureen

Wow, I come here for the first time in months to see this.
Randall, You know who are your friends and who cares about you. Take care nice man. I have enjoyed your posts, pictures, and enthusiasm through the years.

:-) Sending you a smile
Carla

Randy, had I read your request to let this die, I wouldn't have posted but I don't have your address. Adieu.

Carla

Randy,
Thanks for all you have contributed to this forum. You are appreciated by all~even those who may only be faithful readers ~like me. I hope you don't stay away too long.

RANDY YOU WILL BE MISSED!

Junitta