Not sure about the best choice nutritionally but compost is the easiest of these three choices to work with in my experience. Leaf mold that has gotten nice and crumbly would be my second choice for ease of use. I did use spaded in peat moss covered by a thin layer of leaves in a little outdoor tree nursery (a planting bed caged in to keep the deer off the saplings) and it worked out but my experience was that the peat was a little more difficult to work with in terms of texture and moisture retention. The peat did not seem to blend in with the soil as quickly or easily as compost or leaf mold. In any event, my decisions are usually made by just grabbing what is handy which tends to be leaves. FYI, the bottom foot of material in my old wood chip piles also handles something like compost or leaf mold because that bottom foot is so decomposed and also full of worm castings but I use it more for mulch than as a growing medium (although plants do volunteer in it). I created a nice flower bed out of very tough soil over a two year period with some compost, decomposed wood chip material and also standard wood chips for mulch, and by not removing the oak leaves that naturally fall in the area.

BULL!

You could easily go broke doing that every year. One of my pet peeves about gardening, especially organic gardening, is the cost of compost. Furthermore, virtually all beginning texts or articles on organic gardening overemphasize the importance of compost. Still further, even advanced texts and articles rave about compost and the miracles associated with it.

Compost is the digested remains of formerly growing materials. Usually compost includes tree leaves and livestock manure. After 3-9 months under ideal conditions, compost microbes will have digested all the original food materials plus most of the microbes that work on the early stages of raw materials. What is left over is the picked over foodstuffs and LOTS of hungry microbes. When you apply a light dusting of compost over the top of the soil, those hungry microbes will wash into the soil at the first rain or irrigation cycle. This is the major benefit to compost. But if there is no food in the soil already, and none arrives soon, those microbes will go dormant or die.

What do the microbes want to eat? Well eating is my word but these are the critters that are mold. When food gets moldy, that is the result of microbial decomposition. When food gets a bacterial slime on it, that, too, is microbial decomposition. They "eat" food (protein, carbohydrates, vitamins, enzymes, and minerals). In retrospect that will be obvious. Food goes bad. The process of 'going bad' is microbial decomposition. The really good news is that this is Mother Nature's plan. When 100,000 different species of microbes decompose the original food, each other, and each other's waste products, what you get in the end is sweet smelling soil full of nature's plant food.

Organic gardening does not have to be expensive. You can actually put a lot of real organic fertilizer on your garden for the cost of compost. One cubic yard of compost costs $35 plus $40 delivery in my neighborhood. It covers 1,000 square feet and only provides microbes. One bag of alfalfa pellets costs $7.50 and covers 5,000 square feet and provides a full meal. Thus compost costs $75.00 per thousand square feet and alfalfa costs $1.50 per thousand square feet.

Okay that should end my rant, but I reserve the right to hop back on the soapbox. Your soil tester told you to add organic matter. The only organic matter that matters is living microbes. They can get there as the tester suggested (plowing in compost), or attached to roots from the plants you grow. This is part of the solution. The other part is to keep the microbes you have. Keeping them involves feeding them and not killing them. Alfalfa feeds them, as does corn meal, wheat flour, soy bean meal, milo, flax seed, cottonseed meal, corn gluten meal, and any other ground up nut, bean, or seed. These are all high in food content. By applying any of these ground grains on top of the soil at a rate of 10-20 pounds per 1,000 square feet, you will be feeding real food to the microbes. Then, to ensure you keep your microbes, never use any chemical materials on the soil that kill the microbes. The worst chemicals are chemical fungicides. The obvious ones are labeled as fungicides. The insidious ones are not. Those include baking soda, sufated fertilizer chemicals, and sulfur products commonly used in the garden. By avoiding these chemicals you can pretty much guarantee your soil organic matter will increase dramatically.

Oh, you need moisture, too. Lack of moisture and lack of oxygen (or too much flooding moisture) can be decremental.

If I got that soil test recommendation I would scatter a light dusting of compost over the top. The amount is equal to 1 cubic yard per 1,000 square feet. If it goes over grass I would use a push broom to sweep it down below the level of the grass blades. I would also add 20 pounds of corn meal or alfalfa pellets per 1,000 square feet. Then I would make sure I watered about 1 inch of rain or irrigation per week, all year long. Repeat the fertilizer, but not the compost, as often as you like. I fertilize my turf about five times a year. I fertilize my plants much less but you could do it monthly and get a lot better results than I get.

Sorry, bob64. My 'bull' comment was directed at the test lab's recommendation, but since you posted while I was still writing, it looks like my comment was addressed to you. It was not.

compost does not have to cost anything! Actually compost can save you money if you pay for your trash hauling by volume since much of what people throw out in the trash is good compost material! Or, in many places you can get compost for the price of gas, in my county I can get compost free whenever they have it available. We have filled up 9 rubermaid storage bins with it in the van and it makes a good layer on a 100 SF bed.

We can also get mushroom compost for about $5 per about 3 cu yards but we need to pay a neighbor to use his trailer to deliver it to us.

Compost depending on it's grade can be a good organic amendment in addition to it's microbes. It is often the humus that people are trying to build up.

Anyway, use what you can get free/cheap in abundance. Perhaps some compost if you have it available along with leaf mold or even just plain leaves! But I wouldn't till em in but that is a whole other topic. If you do add too much high carbon materials and till it into your soil, then you need to add extra nitrogen to keep the microbes from depleting your soil while they digest the carbon. This can be done with something like alfalfa pellets, grass clippings, etc.

So my vote is for a mix of compost and leaf mold or leaves. I would avoid the peat unless it is really cheap and there is nothing else available.

Most of my garden beds are no till on top of cardboard or in cardboard boxes. The plants are planted directly in compost or a mix of compost and leaves with a mulch of leaves, wood chips or spanish moss. All free or really cheap materials here. Kinda sheet composting or lasagna gardening

Here is a link that might be useful: My Garden

You need to do some more research dchall. When food goes moldy thats not a result of bacteria but... mold. Molds and bacteria are just a couple of the things that can break down vegetable matter. There's also yeasts, protozoa, rotifers, and probably several other families of microscopic flora/fauna which i can't think of offhand.

Alphalfa pellets are a good source of nitrogen, but plants need other things beside nitrogen. good compost is a source of plant building blocks (fertilisers as well as minerals) but it also provides aeration capabilities in clay soils and water retention capabilities in sandy soils. The microscopic life also has some abilities to combat plant diseases.

So overall, it can definately be said that compost is a good thing to have in your garden. I'm sure most people in this forum swear by it.

I'm not saying that you _need_ compost in your garden, that would definately be a lie. All the aquaculture greenhouses prove that. However the maintainance of an aquaculture greenhouse is orders of magnitude more complex than maintaining a garden with healthy soil. In modern aquaculture there's the use of substrates specific to the roots of whichever plants are grown, and the plants are chemically analysed ro see exactly which fertilisers and minerals are needed. This mix is varied according to which growing stage the plants are in. All these things are unnecessary with the right soil mix as all the minerals and fertilisers will be in the soil and the plant only needs to extract them.

If you need to buy any material to put into your soil it could be a waste of your money. Gardeners should make compost, what else do you do with the waste vegetative material from the kitchen and your yard. Throwing that material out and not recycling it on your property is a waste of your money. For people that live where decicuous trees grow and shed their leaves every fall have no need to buy stuff such as peat moss, an extremely large waste of money doing that.
Leaf mold and compost, if you make your own, is the best thing you can add to your soil, but make your own.

Many, I'd guess *most*, gardeners don't produce enough waste to create enough compost for the gardens we'd all like to have, especially when they/we are just getting started & especially with the starved soil we all seem to start with.

Even I, compost wacko that I am, have bought compost by the truckload;
if I hadn't, I'd still have miserable soil & my gardens would still be struggling.

Well, maybe they wouldn't.
Maybe I'd have thrown up my hands in despair & given up.
Maybe I'd have a sea of bermuda grass lawn that I had to mow with a riding mower.
shudder...

What was the question?

I'd get the compost, more bang for the buck.

Peat moss, well, I don't know why we all think we need peat moss, unless it's because we've had it drilled into our heads for so long by people who have peat moss to sell.

Not only is it difficult to work with, not only is it excruciatingly dry & difficult to moisten, not only does it (here anyway) have to be trucked across a whole continent, but peat moss is what some growers use to pack vegetables *to keep them fresher*.

I don't want anything in my soil that retards decomposition.

Leaves are wonderful, but today's leaves are not today's leaf mold, they're next year's (here in Texas anyway, they decompose more quickly or more slowly depending on zone & climate).

I'd add compost, & use the leaves for mulch;
by next year, they'll have decomposed into the soil & you can just add fresh mulch.

Best luck, & have fun!

What do you have available?
Of the three options presented, I would choose compost as #1, Leaf mold as #2 and peat last. But heck, there are lots of sources of OM.

I myself would not hesitate to find some nicely shredded yard waste (OPL) next fall and work that into the garden. I'm guessing CA doesn't freeze solid like up here, so this type of material should oughta decompose enough in the soil over the "winter" season. I would do this annually.

Lloyd

disclaimer: I'm not a gardener, I farm, therefore I like to "work" the soil. I can hear the gasps now! :)

On one of the "Victory Garden" shows not too long ago Kip stated that he liked to add peat moss to the soil because it lasted a long time, and it lasts a long time because the soil microbes will not digest it. Peat moss has no food value and does nothing for the soil or the Soil Food Web. If you want a good, healthy soil peat moss is not something you want to add.

I have read that the "add organic matter" is pretty common on soil test results.

I am inundated with oak leaves each fall and need to do something with them other than sending them to the landfill. I make my own compost and have recently found that the supermarket dumpsters are once again available for me to peruse, plus the produce manager finally relented and said he would save some of the best throw away stuff if I would call him when I was ready to come pick some up.

Consequently, I may be wrong, but I like to think that compost made with diverse ingredients has a lot of minerals and hopefully nutrients sequestered in it, that the micro herd will convert to plant food when it is mixed in with the soil. was ready and needed to be moved out of my composting area so that I could start shredding up this years leaves there. My Grandson loves to help me when he gets to play with my little garden tractor and was a big help in .

I picked a good mess of greens to go with our "Traditional" black eyed pea dinner yesterday (had home grown tomatoes too!). Soon as I feel like it, I will mow the rest of the to be turned under with the compost when it is spread and a layer of shredded leaves.

I also like to put a layer of aged horse manure on the garden this time of the year to turn under with the other materials, but due to age and health considerations have not felt like going down to my Sis in Law's place to get a load this winter. There was a posting on our Freecycle where someone had lots of worm castings, fresh and aged horse manure that said haul all you want but call first. There was no phone number so I emailed the guy (he is just a few miles away) and he said be patient, he is currently hunting some hay of decent quality to feed his horses during our cold weather. I am hopeful that will work out good.

Since I started composting and amending, I have observed a season by season improvement in my garden and am sold on the feed the soil to feed the plant theory.

I am sure that there are many other good amendments that I have never tried, also.
Just my .02
Bill P.

Organic matter comes in many forms. There is also living and dying organic matter available to the soil and microrganisms just by growing plants in the soil. The living, dying and dead roots of plants go along way to increasing organic matter in the soil. Grass clippings and leaves left in place bring minerals from below to the surface along with free carbon captured from the atmosphere by the plants.
Compost is great stuff but it is not the only way to increase OM. I make it and use most my homemade on my vege garden. Trees, shrubs and lawn has to make due with whatever gets mowed in, mulch and organic fertilizer. I do work leaves into the new perenial beds I am building.
Get it while you can but the best thing in my opinion is to have roots in the soil.

Wow, this is a nice thread. But I can't collect that much waste to start up my garden. To sylviatexas,
Where do you get your truck load of compost? I have tried three nursuries in town and I didn't get impressive growing results.
New gardener in Austin, tx

There are 2 places in my area just south of Dallas:

Travis Equipment on Hwy 287 in Midlothian
972-723-2339

Living Earth in Lancaster/Red Oak on I-35
972-274-2835

Be sure to ask about the delivery fees;
Travis used to charge less if you ordered more, but Living Earth is a set fee no matter where you are, even if it's just around the corner, or how much you get.

Travis material isn't as "refined" & sometimes I've found bits of plastic bags & whatnot in there, & it's more...fragrant.

I've used both products, been happy with both.

I know LA will load your pick-up, don't know about Travis.

Best luck!

...forgot to say that I'm very far north of you, but if you'll post on the Texas Forum for an Austin-area gardener, I'll bet somebody will know a good place.

Some sources suggest ramial chipped wood. Others suggest cover crops which do get you the advantage of roots and above-ground OM. Compost and other items are already discussed above. As always, I go with what is handy but I am not a crop gardener. It is also important how quick you want to be planting and if you are willing to wait a season or more to let whatever system you use to have time to work its magic. Way back when, my dad was a farm kid (before he was drafted, etc.) and he said they used the standard method of growing clover and plowing it under among other things.
Don't sweath the "bull" comment dschall.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ramial Chipped Wood

Newgardener, many municipal facilities now have compost making sections now. They make if from collected and dropped off leaves, grass clippings, brush etc. I have obtained some from two different cities, Plano and Mesquite some years back and before I started making my own. Most have it free to local residents or for a modest fee per cubic yard for non residents. Look in the government (blue pages) of your local phone book and call around in your area.
Good luck.
Bill P.

Circumstances at present do not allow me time to accumulate the compost needed and thinking that using the bag stuff from the big box stores may buy me time until next fall when I should have my compost pile going by then. My soil is clay type and the stuff that I have purchased that was labeled as being "Compost+Manure" appears to have a gritty substance in it (sand). Makes me believe that it could make by clay soil even heavier. Any comments from the group will be appreciated.

Thanks

Thank you, sylviatexas and gonefishin. I will call around. justuscountryfolks: I have bought "texas friendly Compost" from HD ($1.29/bag) and found it contains a lot of sands. My vegis didn't grow well on it.

New garderner

newgardener: you can also try the Natural Gardener in Oak Hill - they carry high quality compost. you can buy it in any quantity.

nakio: What did I write that would make you write this..."You need to do some more research dchall. When food goes moldy thats not a result of bacteria but... mold?"

Compost is abundantly available in Austin, TX. If you cannot find it, search the name John Dromgoole and visit his garden store.

Is the original poster still around? Did his question get answered?

Yes, the original poster is still around.

I live in Riverside, California (halfway between Los Angeles and Palm Springs).

Because I live in a condo (and don't have the space), I can't make "home-made compost" so I guess I'm stuck with buying the "organic matter" (like from Home Depot, Lowes or a nursery).

The soil test shows I have "Sandy Loam" (51% sand; 41% silt; and 8% clay) with pH 7.3 (which is fairly high for the roses and other shrubs in my garden).

Given this information, what are your suggestions for improving my soil?

The question is, how to improve soil.

The question tends to be to win converts to an entirely soil-less methodology, which does anything but answer the question.

The answer is, incorporate organic matter. If your soil is quite acidic, organic matter (which usually has a slightly acidic pH) will modulate the pH. If your soil is alkaline, organic matter will lower the pH.

If your soil is sandy and drains water too quickly, organic matter will increase the water holding capacity of the soil. If your soil is extremely heavy and takes forever to drain even a minimal amount of water, organic matter will increase the drainage of the soil.

Either way, add organic matter.

What organic matter? As long as it's processed adequately, it really doesn't matter. The most common forms you are going to encounter are peat moss, leaf mold, and compost. Take your pick. Many factors may enter your calculation, including availability, price, and personal preference. There's not really a right, not really a wrong.

Baased on my calculations, I incorporate approximately 2800 to 3000 yards of organic matter a year. And yes, I incorporate. Freely and willfully.

"Baased on my calculations, I incorporate approximately 2800 to 3000 yards of organic matter a year."

How much land do you have? Assuming you mean cubic yards when you say yards, that would cover a 10,000 sq ft lawn to a depth of about 8 feet.

10,000 sq ft = 1,111.11111 sq yd
3,000 cu yd / 1,111.1111 sq yd = 2.7 yd
2.7 yd * 3 ft / yd = 8.1 ft.

Or maybe bpgreen applies organic matter almost 2 MILES long!

"Or maybe bpgreen applies organic matter almost 2 MILES long!"

Huh?

"2800 to 3000 yards of organic matter a year" measures almost 2 MILES long!"

I never said I was applying the OM. That's what threw me off.

If I had, I'm anal enough that I would have used cubic yards as a measurement of volume. Since I know not everybody is as anal as I am, and since many places deliver compost by the yard when they mean cubic yard, I assume people mean cubic yards when they use yards to describe volume. Since I'm anal, I also point out my assumption.

If you use 3000 yards of compost as a measurement of distance, it's not really very meaningful, since no depth is involved.

If you "...incorporate approximately 2800 to 3000 yards of organic matter a year" doesn't that mean that you are "applying the OM"?

it was heptacodium that made the original comment about 2800 to 3000 yards, not bpgreen.

Lloyd

Applying could mean you just put it on, although in practical purposes, it basically means the same thing. Incorporation means you make it part of the soil; for most people here, that means a tiller or a shovel. I use field equipment, a couple different types of plow primarily and discs.

I rarely use the cubed part of the cubic yard calculation anymore. Almost everything I deal with in volume is in yards, gallons, or cc's; in area, feet or acres. It's my own personal shorthand (who says unleaded gas anymore?). Mistakes or misunderstanding therefore are my own and I apologize for them.

It's tempting to let y'all try to figure out the math and see what answers develop. But to be kind, I have just a hair over 500 acres of field. Projection can be a funny thing, can't it?

While you will always have much tighter control on the outcome if you make your own compost, you can purchase perfectly good commercially prepared compost as well and many, like the OP with limited space or those that use far more than they are able to create, do.

To the OP: look for Gardner&Bloome products in area nurseries and landscaping supply outfits. They are a California-based company (Kellogg Garden Products) and they produce some very superior potting soils and amendments. Their Soil Building Compost would be an excellent additive to your soils and mulching or incorporating a decent amount will eventually lower the pH to a more neutral reading as well. It's not an inexpensive product but it is so worth the investment.

melonhedd and dchall_san_antonio,
I know about John and the natural gardener store. I like that store very much and get a lot of my plants there. but the year before last I ordered 8 yards of garden soil (very expensive)from it to fill my raised bed. The soil destroyed all my growing area. The soil looks rich, black color but after the rain the surface is coverd by little rocks and it is white and nothing growes. From then on I am looking for a good compost to amend it.

new gardener

"I have just a hair over 500 acres of field."

As Emily Litella used to say, "Oh, that's very different. Never mind."

newgardener_tx: I would visit with John Dromgoole personally and tell him your experience. It sounds like you have been left with limestone rubble. Of course that is what my normal soil is, but you paid big money for his version of it. At the very least he should donate some compost to your cause. You might take some pictures out to show him. Back to how to fix your soil, it is simpler than you might think. Fertilize monthly with a light dusting of organic fertilizer and plant something a legume like clover or beans. Let the "cover crop" grow wild with weekly watering or continual soaking with a soaker hose set on a low trickle. What this does for you is develop a good fungal population and grows penetrating roots. I can't really tell you why this works in less than a many thousand words.

The above really applies to the original poster, too...except for the part about visiting Dromgoole.

The organic matter that matters is the microbes that will live on the roots and thrive from the organic fertilizers.

gcotterl: Please go to my member page and send me an email. I have Riverside sources.

I just spent a week in the Riverside area following the rain they had. That clay is something else...I had forgotten.