Dr. Huey grafted roses not growing roots

15 years ago

Question about this: I have SP'd a few grafted roses that were planted last season, a couple of them were puny bushes (Hot Cocoa, Louis Odier). When I pulled them out, I noticed the Dr. Huey roots really haven't done any significant growing. Yes, there were some new feeder roots. But that was about all. They basically looked just like they did when I planted them.

I do plant deep, so the graft is below ground level. Is this slowing down root growth? Or is it normal for the roots not to do much for a year or two?? Or is it due to cool soil conditions in my climate??? Or ??????

One that I pulled out (Angel Face) had been in place for 3+ years, and it had some OK root growth.

Hmmmm.

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Comments (7)

dan_keil_cr Keil
15 years ago
Were the roots given a chance to grow first, or did you let it bloom heavy after it got it's buds. With roses you grow roots first, then leaves, then blooms. I have noticed with my Dr Huey rooted plants that it takes maybe 3-4 years for the plant to take off. When I get a spindly plant and dig it up, the roots are just nubs. In my case, I have moles in my yard. Also grubs eat feeded roots, so that may be the problem.
mexicanhat
Original Author
15 years ago
Well, to be honest, I usually let them bloom and then don't deadhead - so I don't try to stop them from blooming, but I don't do anything to encourage rebloom on first and second year roses.

No moles and I haven't found grubs... Makes me want to dig up more of them to see what's happening under ground. :-)

Some grafted roses from last season have taken off like gangbusters, for example Mockin' Bird and Sharifa Asma. Wish I could remember if I did anything special when I soaked/planted them...
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As Mike said above, tree roses are almost always composed of 2 grafts that join 3 distinct 'pieces': The rootstock, the interstock (trunk) & the scion (the portion that produces the bloom). If your plant was a 36-inch rose tree from J&P it's almost certain that the interstock was Grifferaie grafted onto Dr Huey rootstock. If it was a 24-inch tree, it's conceivable that both the roots & the interstock were Dr Huey, altho Grifferaie is often used on those too. If you planted the tree deeply enough, I suppose it would be possible for the interstock to strike roots, but I think that's unlikely. I seriously doubt that there's any possibility De la Grifferaie will be the variety that comes back in your garden. I agree with berndoodle that you can expect Dr Huey to be making another of his unwelcome house calls.
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Dr. Huey IS the rootstock. Once Dr. Huey starts to sucker, you have to dig down under the soil, find the source of the sucker and tear off the sucker at the base. Otherwise, you will wind up with plants of Dr. Huey and not your original rose. Which is what you have now. Just cutting down the suckers does not help, you are just pruning Huey. If you can't get down to tear off the suckers, and if there are too many now, your original grafted plant is a goner, as Dr. Huey is very vigorous. Unless you can save cuttings of your grafted plant, you will have to dig up the Dr. Hueys and start over. You can try to avoid the suckering by burying the graft union underground, but as Paul said, in some places Dr. Huey is just bound to take over.
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KJM, sometimes there are local sources that would have some of these roses, but you have to hunt around. Occasionally Lowes has had some Explorers or Kordes roses, but it varies nationally. By all means check local gardening sources to see what might be available - I always believe in supporting local stores - but don't expect much beyond Knockouts and a few common Austin and Hybrid Tea roses at most places.Most of these local roses are likely to be grafted onto a rootstock like Dr. Huey if you find them. Most of us end up buying roses online if we have particular ones we want. Mad Gallica's right that Palatine has excellent roses, but being bareroot grafted roses they won't ship again until fall and that's too late to plant in our cold zones for this year. In fact, I'm done planting roses for this year as I worry that they won't establish well before winter sets in. You could get away in July with planting a large potted rose from a local source now, or a hardy rose like the Explorers from anywhere you can find them, but I wouldn't do anything smaller than a gallon rose this late in the year. High Country Roses is a good source for a lot of Explorers and hardy roses, as is Northland. Chamblees is very reasonable for shipping gallons, and Roses Unlimited has a multitude of roses available. If you don't find the roses you're looking for, you can shop online over the fall and winter and have it delivered in April next year to get a good start on the season. Cynthia
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I am learning so much from this thread. There is such great knowledge and experience here. It's really interesting to hear about people's different experiences. Jeri...most of my Austin's were bare root plants purchased from local nurseries. Does that mean they are probably California or Texas grown (doesn't Austin grow his US roses in Texas?) What got me thinking about this topic was watching an Episode of The Victorian Flower Garden (on YouTube). It talks all about how rose grafting was done 100 hundred years ago in England, in this case they were taking about rose standards, which were all the rage at the time. "Briar men" would harvest wild roses to be used at the rootstock for the standards. It was extremely interesting, and it got me thinking about grafting. England is a small country and I imagine that a single rootstock works well all over the country. America is much larger and more geographically diverse (as well as vastly different climates). It makes sense to have regional rose growers who provide plants with rootstocks suited to those areas. I didn't realize (or really know the difference) that there were places to buy roses grafted onto certain rootstocks. I was re-reading that incredible thread by Fragrancnutter called "fragrant roses that produce abundant perfect cut blooms" and she says that she makes sure all her roses are on Fortuniana because it gives her bigger plants with more blooms. Now, she's in Australia, has lots of heat, and is a superlative gardener. I live in the PNW, have not much heat, and am an average gardener (and a rose growing newbie). Where we are similar is in our warm winters (I am in a solid zone 9 now) and maybe our soils. I garden on glacial till which is incredibly fast draining. Even with liberal organic amendments my garden requires a shocking amount of irrigation for roses to thrive in it. This took me 15 years to figure out :) I would like to be able to back off on the water (I have my own well thankfully) over time as the roses become more established, and be mindful about buying roses that will thrive in my particular garden and soil. I have many own root antique tea roses that I think will like my mild winters, quick draining soil, and warm microclimate created by a large gravel driveway on one side and the road on the other. If Fortuniana will help me deal with these particular conditions, that would be great. A rose that naturally enjoys heavier soil will not enjoy my garden :)
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buford
15 years ago
mexican, how is your soil and what are you feeding the roses?

I've noticed an increase in the rootball mass after using alfalfa and not using as much synthetic fertilizer.
everyrose
15 years ago
I live in the Seattle area and we have very cool soils. Until I started reading this forum I thought that roses were supposed to have very weak root systems! It could be the cool soil or it could be the symphylans which eat root tips (this is my pet theory).
I have noticed that roses growing in my pot ghetto develop better root systems than those grown in the ground. I see dense, fibrous roots in the roses grown in pots and very few feeder roots on the grounders.
Rosarians around here say that roses grown on multiflora do better than those on Dr Huey, but I haven't seen a big difference.
I have been thinking that maybe I should pot up my bare roots and grow them for a year in pots to develop a more vigorous root system before planting them in the ground.
mexicanhat
Original Author
15 years ago
Buford, soil is amended clay, and I mostly feed organic stuff - coffee grinds & manure. I toss out alfalfa sometimes. I did scratch in some 12-12-12 this Spring, a quarter or half cup around each rose (first time I've used it). Was going to feed some MG but never got around to it.

Some of the own roots just take off. For example, I have a grafted Abe Darby, 3 y.o. who has just sat there doing nothing. When I got him, I had rooted a cutting. The own root Darby is growing amazingly well and is bloomiferous as can be. The grafted one just sits there... Heck if I can figure out what it is. The exact same thing happened with Mary Rose. Austins seem to really like being own root in my soil.

However, some Dr. Hueys do OK. I have a cheap grafted RdR which does great, and the own root from Sequoia growing along side it also does great.

I do use a couple inches of wood chips mulch and my soil is never warm under the mulch (our days are hot and nights are cool). I could take a soil temperature reading, if that would be of any interest.

It's sure a mystery I would like to solve... I currently have a FoJ that is grafted that is sort of floundering, and I bet if I dug it up the roots would be pathetic. However, the own root Zepherine next to it is happy as can be, and the grafted Gertrude J next to it is growing well.

This variable Dr. Huey behavior wouldn't be an expression of RMV, would it????
mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
15 years ago
What's the soil pH?
mexicanhat
Original Author
15 years ago
Native soil pH is alkaline 7.8 to 8.0, lots of free lime. Clay is red adobe type. Think Mesa Verde pottery and adobe bricks.

Dr. H grows here happily enough, as evidenced by 5 large specimens in the neighbor's yard. :-)

Dr. Huey grafted roses not growing roots

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dan_keil_cr Keil

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Dr. Huey grafted roses not growing roots

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dan_keil_cr Keil

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