Crepescule is a climber. Also it's more golden than cream. I think you'd need a fence. There is a cream colored Tea called Madame Charles that I love. It grew beautifully from a small band.

FYE -- Here is a mature Crepuscule, in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. It speaks for itself.
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Jeri

The Vintage Catalogue is great fun, yes?

One you might take a look at is "Spice" a "found" rose from Bermuda some think is one of the four stud Chinas (disputed). It's supposed to love hot humid weather. The color rages from blush pink to cream.

Vintage has it listed with the "Teas", if memory serves. And is among a relative few Vintage lists as ffff, for most fragrant.

Bill

I assume you know you can look up pictures of almost any rose on "helpmefind.com", but just in case I mention it. Good luck!

My garden is filled with apricots, creams, and yellows. My two favorites are teas, though, so they may not be what you want. But check out Etoile de Lyon. It's a beautiful tea rose, cream colored, just as beautiful when fully open as when in the bud. We've had a summer of rain so far and there hasn't been much chance for spraying, and this is the ONLY rose that still has leaves. Plus it's fragrant and will bloom all summer long no matter how hot it is and the blooms last a really long time in the heat. Another good one is Isabella Sprunt. Very fragrant. BS resistance isn't so hot, at least not in my yard. Plus the blooms blow fast in the heat.
Two great Austins that are cream colored are Charlotte (it's yellow but fades to a beautiful cream) and Crocus Rose. Unlike some Austins, the flowers on both of these last in the heat. Jude the Obscure is one of my favorite Austins, and it is a cream color. The fragrance is fantastic. Disease resistance isn't bad either.
Both Crepuscule and Buff Beauty have been in my garden since Feb 05. So far they are not blooming except for in the spring. I have high hopes for some repeat one day. They are so humongous that surely they will start blooming soon.
Prosperity is a cream colored hybrid musk. In my garden it blooms in big flushes but they are few and far between. So far this year only 2 flushes. It's a climber and is pretty big.
Ducher is a white china. Fragrant, blooms all of the time.
Noisettes: most of the ones I've got are white. Mary Washington is my favorite. Constant bloom, and I'm not talking about a few flowers, I'm talking loaded down with blooms all season long.

Mutabilis can get some blackspot but it always shakes it off with new growths and blooms that it doesnÂt bother me at all. If it gets water and is fed regularly, it grows fast over 6Â or more tall and wide with lush foliage. Mutabilis also does well in the heat and grows fast.

Crépuscule is a fast growing climber on its own root in my garden and is spotless. Soon hopefully it will look like the great pic Jeri posted.

Mutabilis
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Great responses! Yes, I forgot to include teas on my initial post. Madame Charles was already on my possible list. I will add Etoile de Lyon, and Spice, and look them up after work.
You're right, Crepuscule would not fit in that space. There's some shade in that area, too. I have not figured out how much shade. It gets morning sun, and some afternoon, I think. It is in front of my deck, which is about 4 ft off the ground.
Having never seen any of these types of OGRs, I am wondering how one prunes them to fit a space? Is there a website or book you would recommend? My idea of pruning is to cut out crossing canes. Does not pruning rugosas affect their rebloom capacity? (You can tell I'm a beginner!)
Yes, the Vintage catalog is wonderful! And, I appreciate the pics you all posted! Mutabilis is mostly visible as pink in that pic, Roseleaf, is that the way you see it? I'm not much into pink (though I am really impressed w/ the pic of Monsieur Tillier! Wow, those petals!)
I love the Austins, but I'm afraid they would all need spraying here.
Thanks for all the great feedback and the pic of Crepuscule, Jerijen! William C.- I know you were part of that controversial post about spraying, so anything you recommend should be really hardy. Brandy

Another found Bermuda rose you might want to check out is the Noisette 'Brightside Cream'. (I think this is one that Vintage lists as a Tea Noisette). I ordered mine 3 or 4 yrs ago from Lisa at Countryside Roses in Mississippi. It's been healthy in my garden, & has a climbing growth habit much like Crepuscule. The color might be creamy for some people, but here in my corner of the very sunny South it's simply white.

I like this one a lot, 'Ghislaine de Feligonde'
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Sally Holmes
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Bouquet Parfait
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Lady Hillingdon
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Mutabilis
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One of my very favorite roses, and the first OGR I ever owned, is the hybrid musk 'Autumn Delight.' It's one you hardly ever see, but it's a lovely creamy white, semi-double, fragrant rose that opens from golden buds. I find it a bit more tender than some of the HMs (like 'Cornelia' -- a roller derby queen by comparison), but a hundred times more beautiful, esp. those last-warm-days flowers...which may not be such a thing for you, but is very poetic in the colder climes.

I live in Chapel Hill NC and the best cream or white rose I have is Ducher. Smells good, very littel BS and a fast grower that can be kept in bounds with pruning. I love this rose. Denise

Another creamy, yellowy, apricoty Tea is Souvenir de Pierre Notting. I just planted it this year and already I love the creamy blooms. I have Crepuscule and Buff Beauty as well--love both. Crepuscule blooms constantly, while there are 3 distinct flushes on Buff Beauty. Both Crepuscule and BB start out peachy apricot, but fade to cream. Etoile de Lyon has blooms more similar to SdPN. One thing I have noticed regarding EdL is that the blooms seem to last forever. The creamiest blooms of all belong to Devoniensis, but D comes in either a climbing form or a very small bush. Another rose that has creamy blooms is Gruss an Aachen. This rose is amazing as it blooms constantly. Aren't we lucky to have Vintage available to satisfy the most lustful of our rosey wishes.

Having never seen any of these types of OGRs, I am wondering how one prunes them to fit a space?

*** Now, THIS is an important question.

The answer is that, for the most part, YOU DO NOT PRUNE THEM TO FIT A SPACE.
They perform to their optimum if left to reach their natural mature size.

That is to say, determine how large they will be as naturally-formed mature plants.
Allow that space to accommodate the rose.
Naturally, it will look bare while the rose is immature.
Address that by planting annuals which will disappear as the rose grows to fill its alloted space.

As they grow, prune to remove dead or damaged canes.
When they are mature, prune for gentle shaping, and to remove entire canes which have passed their useful lifespan.

Jeri

Brandy, you have to remember where you are growing roses. California does not have the same climate, the same diseases, or the same pests that we deal with. There are roses that do well on both coasts but a lot of the roses that do well in California and are touted as disease free will defoliate from blackspot here so quickly it will leave you standing with your mouth hanging open, not believing your eyes! And yes, this includes the Teas and China's that are very disease resistant in some areas.

Also, yes you can prune the OGR's without decreasing the bloom or ruining the shape of the bush. You do not have to have a rose that is 12 ft x 12 ft if you don't have room for it. Some of the Tea's are quite happy kept at 6-7ft. If you have a smaller garden, you can still grow most of these roses but find out how big they get and their disease resistance in YOUR area. You can not prune the OGR's to 18 inches like some people prune their hybrid teas but you can keep them at a more modest size. You also need to let them establish and grow for a few years before you do much other than take out dead canes or shape them. I take my Tea's down to 5 feet every winter and again usually sometime in the late summer. This doesn't bother them in the least.

Some of my favorite cream colored roses are Spice, Reubens, Marie Legonde and Devoniensis. I've heard mostly good things about Ducher but I haven't grown it. Buff Beauty and Crepuscule are very yellow and very large.

Carol

Brandy, Mutabilis blooms are predominantly pink most of the time, although some other color variations exist as each bloom goes through the changes. It may not fit your apricot color palette, but may work well at other pink location in the garden.

You may also want to look into Arethusa  a continuously blooming apricot china that fades to cream. The blooms look and last better with afternoon shade in my garden. This spring was abnormally dry, and it got some powdery mildew which was fixed with milk spray. No black spot I see. Arethusa would do well in your garden. I order from Vintage time to time, although I would check with Chamblee if they have these OGRs in 1 gal pot which I prefer.

In the eastern mid Atlantic region from Virgina to the Carolinas, some teas, chinas, noisettes and polyanthas can defoliate very easily from bs, so yes you still need to be on the look out on which ones you can grow no spray.

Thanks to everyone for the terrific feedback!
Carol and Roseleaf- thank you for the warning about the climate variability of BS.
Also, the info about pruning. So, I guess it is good that I didn't prune my rugosas.
I don't want to plant them too close together now and regret it later. How close together can I plant 2 roses that would get 6x6? Do they usually maintain their posture (I mean the canes not drooping)? If I have a rose on a trellis, how many feet should I leave between it and the one in front of it?
I don't understand about the size- the illustrations in the Vintage catalog, mainly show shape and that many are taller than a person, but I'm getting the impression that these roses will actually get a lot taller than 6 ft. Buff Beauty is described as 4 x 6 in Heirloom's catalog, but you, Carol, say that it gets very large. Can someone enlighten me?
I am working on the list. So far, Mme. Charles, Reve d'Or, Alister Stella Gray, Buff Beauty and Lady Hillingdon (not the climbing version) are looking good. Others, I am thinking about for my bigger bed in the back. You all have given me some great suggestions! Thanks, Brandy

Brandy, it's quite true that we in California have little problem with blackspot, which is a big problem where you live, so local knowledge is best.

Knowing you are in a area where blackspot pressure is high, I suggested a rose (Spice) I've heard does well in hot-humid climates and I believe is fairly blackspot resistant. But please do run any roses past others with similar conditions.

I did notice Carol also recommended Spice. She might be able to help you with the ultimate "size" of Spice, which can be medium sized (4.5-5ft) elsewhere, but I've heard can get good sized in the hot-humid conditions it loves.

Bill

I second Devoniensis. It is no-spray in coastal southeast. Prosperity (white, not cream) also performs superbly. Of the teas Mme J. Schwartz is creamy color with occasional blush. In the tea class, I think it could be considered a modest-medium size bush.

OK -- where Vintage is physically located, Buff Beauty will ramble or climb to 8 or more feet tall and at least as wide. So why are they listing it as 4x6? Is this supposed to be an average?

It's sure a good thing we have this forum to ask, when size is a major consideration.

Mrs. Dudley Cross is another beautiful tea that I'd like to present for your consideration. I can't comment on its disease problems in your area but here in CA it was disease-free, with very large and beautiful blooms.

Ingrid

The most beautiful cream colored tea I have ever seen and perhaps the most beautiful rose is Devoniensis which I grow as a large bush that longs to be a climber. It also grows as a small bush which I do not grow.
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la

If two roses are 6x6 then you would have to plant them 6 feet apart (measuring hole to hole). If you figure half of each plant is 3 feet and then you double that for both plants. Add more room if you want space between them to walk through.

Your bed may look sparse for a year or two, but it's better than having to move a mature bush. Although I've done that and it can be done successfully.

Well, I have been very busy w/ all this "homework" you all gave me! There is so much color variation in pics that it makes deciding difficult. Looking at the pics on HMF, I really like Madame Charles, but I wonder how big it gets and how resistant it is?
Spice, unfortunately, appears to be a pinky-white.
As for Devoniensis, would you describe it as pinky-white, apricot-white or creamy-white? The Vintage catalog shows D. as about 4 ft tall (the illustrations are great for shape but I don't like relying on them for size), which would be too short to plant between 6 ft tall roses. Many of the OGRs seem to get very large- that is going to limit how many I can get :(
Nickel.- It wasn't Vintage that listed that hgt- it was Heirloom. And HMF says 4-10 ft.
So many to choose from! I like contrast, so I want a good contrasting color between the 2 reds, and I would also like a rose w/ many petals. 6 ft tall will work fine, taller would be okay IF I can tie it to my deck railings- will that be okay?
I need all the help I can get and appreciate all of you taking the time to share your experience w/ me. Brandy

Dev is pure cream gradually mellowing to a yellowish cream or old varnish-the white of a renaissance painting.6 feet tall you may want Mme. Joseph Schwartz or Marie Van Houtte which will get 6 feet and is creamy white with an aureole of coral/pink.
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should look great with your two reds.
la

"Westside Cream Tea" is a great short Tea rose. Phillip Robinson found it in Northern California and Vintage Gardens sells it.
One of the coolest things about it, is that it is short for a Tea, a few inches over 4 feet tall when mature. It is bushy and compact with a bushel of attractive light green leaves, which show off the cream goblet shaped blooms to perfection.
"Devoniensis" is divine.
Luxrosa

Brandyray, I wouldn't be shy about pruning your rugosas and H. rugosas. They seem to handle pruning quite well.
I have seen long, long, perfectly-squared-off formal hedges of R. rugosa at The Hermitage, near Nashville, TN.

I just wish the Rugosas would do as well in my part of Southern California as they do in the S.E.

Jeri

Wow, Luanne, that Marie Van Houtte is gorgeous! It looks like some of the peonies I've been lusting after! Does anyone else have this? Know how much disease resistance it has? Devoniensis sounds good since it evidently has considerable disease resistance. Does anyone know about the resistance of Madame Charles- she really is a creamy beauty.
Buford- so the roses will have enough breathing room if I space them that way?
Luxrosa- that rose is listed as Westside Road Cream Tea in the Vintage catalog but I haven't been able to find it on HMF so I could see what the blooms look like.

She is healthy as a horse here in coastal CA--need to check with Carol FM.
la