Not every OGR has that growth habit, if you choose wisely, you can have OGRs that you can keep relatively small.

OTOH, some OGRs do grow very large. it's usually not good for the overall best interests of the plant to prune these back heavily. You can restrain them somewhat, but that's it. Aside from affecting the growth and bloom, you lose their natural form when you prune these too heavily.

There are literally thousands of OGRs. Your best approach is to decide what color and size you want and also whether you want repeat bloom or spring only and how important fragrance is for you. Then ask for ideas here on the forum from people who are in your area. Many of the Chinas, Teas, and even some noisettes stay small.

What about training them on pyramids?

Not all Old Roses are suitable for pyramids, tripods, or tuteurs -- no more than most Modern Roses are.

Among the older roses that stay small, you have the Polyanthas, and the "Poly-Teas." Only a handful of those grow really huge. The are few things lovelier than 'Perle d'Or', or the bush form of 'Mlle. Cecile Brunner' -- or for that matter, 'White Cecile Brunner.'

In any case, it's always a bad idea to plant a rose and try to change the nature of its habit. Sort of like a marriage, comes to that. Don't marry someone on the theory that you can change them. It doesn't work.

One rose that is much-overlooked, which is dynamite along the Southern California coast, blooms all the time and is completely disease-free is 'International Herald Tribune.'

Naturally dwarf of habit, it can be grown up to 3-ft., and I've heard reports of 4-ft. It bears huge sprays of the most incredibly beautiful, fragrant, purple flowers.

And, did I mention the spicy fragrance??

Jeri

Some of the Bourbons, like Mme. Dore and Romaggi Plot Bourbon, have stayed small for me, also Mme. Cornelissen. Many of the polyanthas stay small or can be pruned moderately to stay that way.

Early hybrid teas like La France, Lady Alice Stanley and Souvenir de President Carnot are on the small side, as is the tea rose Devoniensis (the bush form).

Ingrid

ThomasLearning, I think you should plan on finding an OGR that is about the size your space can handle or you will be fighting it like I am mine! lol! In fact assume that it will grow larger than said because it's in Florida. I think you may have better luck keeping them in bounds if you plant them on their own roots, not fortuniana, which gives them a lot more vigor. I have seen own root roses that are over 35 years old here. I have found mine to be very very healthy on own roots and they seem to want to overgrow their beds nonetheless. I planted roses that a "supposed to be 3' - 5', and they are 5' (I plant my roses together (4' apart) so they form a solid hedge.) It gets pretty messy by the end of summer. Roses have a hard time being neat and tidy unless you get a rose with a very compact habit. My rose, Ducher, is about 5' tall and I am often trying to keep it in bounds. The more I prune the thicker and healthier and bigger it gets. It has become almost as dense as a boxwood. I (attempt to) make my gardens neat by planning the beds to be 5'- 7' deep and give structure to them by planting boxwoods (Japanese) in front of them along a walkway, like a Charleston garden. I have planted companion plants like angelonia (purple) and drift roses in the front part of the border, still behind the boxwoods, which gives a nice tiered effect. That is in theory, of course. I thought JeriJenning's advice was very good: Don't choose your roses thinking you can change them! And in Florida remember that our non-stop growing season makes things grow bigger faster. About the photos: before and during pruning back the roses yesterday. Everything needs clipping and weeding. I'm not finished yet. It's just too hot!! Don't let the photos discourage you! :)

Here is a photo of roses eating the garage. (pre-trimming :)

Here is a photo of mostly pruned but not cleaned up rose border. This is their second season in the ground in Florida. I kept them in pots for two years before planting. This is their first time being cut back drastically. I don't recommend planting roses where they just don't fit. I know that eventually I will replant the border or learn to love them! I cut these back in part because I wanted to see how that works for me in FL. They are just too beautiful in January to prune. This is the ugly season and a time I don't feel like being outdoors in the heat and humidity.

Leigh, I think your garden looks wonderful, pruned and unpruned. It's very tasteful and inviting, and I don't see anything that needs cleanup. Please come visit my garden so you can see one that does need it, although I'm no longer able to do much. The brickwork, neat lawn and paths give everything structure, and the soft billowing forms of the plants are a nice counterpoint. Perhaps in time you could replace some of the most unruly roses with smaller varieties, but I'm not really seeing much of a problem. Pruning in summer seems like a very logical thing to do in your climate.

Ingrid

Thanks Ingrid, Fl is a difficult climate for roses, and I saw this thread and thought I'd share my difficulties too. I think part of the problem with roses, is that you see these gorgeous roses grown somewhere else and then you want to translate that into your garden. It is so hard to get a grip on how big these plant will get. I get feelings of dread seeing Crepuscule climbing up two stories high competing with a chimney for space when I have that on my wall by the gate and it is through and over the wall.
I have a about a week more of work to do because I can't be out there very long :)

How much space do you have for your O.G.R. garden?

The original form of Mlle. Cecillel Brunner' a charming pink Polyantha -Tea, grows to be c. 4 and 1/2 feet tall by c. 3 1/2 feet wide, rebloom is good and the fragrance is strong,of damask rose with a finish of black pepper.
'Nastarana' is one of the smaller Noisette class rosebushes, and can be kept at the same size, easily. The white flowers are easy to fit in any color schematic and the scent is musky and wonderful and wafts a few feet from the bush in the right conditions.

Fabvier' is a bright red China that is compact in growth habit and can fit in a small garden.

Most Old Garden Tea rosebushes are large plants but
'Westside Road Cream Tea' matures at c. the same size as the other two, but a bit wider, c. 3 and 3/4 feet wide. The roses are large, cream and very fragrant.
Etoille de Lyon' can be kept at c. 5 and 1/2 feet tall by nearly as wide, where I live, and it is easy to espalier many roses of this class,which reduces the square footage of garden space by nearly half. It is a pale to light yellow Tea with a "delicious' scent. It smells of honeysuckle to me.
.
The Damask Perpetual class and Hybrid Perpetual class has some medium sized to smallish roses; Mme. Boll blooms every season but winter, here and is very fragrant
I've seen the sublime 'Grandmothers Hat' grown limbed to a size of 5 feet tall by just over 3 feet wide, this allows for companion plants to be planted below the canopy, white alyssium or a geranium would be pretty, or a short white Poly, such as Little White Pet'

If I had a small garden I would have a back row of tall espaliered rosebushes to take maximum advantage of the space. A trellis or fence in back of these makes it easier to prune the espalier shape, I find.
For instance;

Reine des Violettes/Etoille de Lyon/Reine des Violettes
espaliered in the back row
G.Hat./Mme Boll/G.Hat in the middle
Little white pet/Borderor/Little white Pet. in the front row

would allow for a purple, white, yellow and pink rose-scape in an area that is 24 feet wide, by c. 15 feet from front to back.

I've mentioned only a few of my favorite smaller Old Roses.. I used to rent a property where we fit more than 180 Old and Modern rosebushes in an area that was only c. 40 feet long by 50 feet wide. we espaliared, and self pegged Hybrid Perpetuals, to keep them smaller and, espaliered China and Tea roses to keep their size nearly half of their normal size,, and grew some rosebushes in pots which kept them smaller (but reduced bloom production in a few) we grew white Lady Banks to form the boundary, of 4.5 feet tall on three fences and grew climbing roses over the arbor entryway, and also grew climbers up the side of the two story Victorian house. This produced a garden that had white Sombruiel climbing the house, white Lady Banks on 3 fences, Mutabilis espaliered and a dozen lavender, pink, and yellow (Callisto) Hybrid Musks espaliered too, Grandmothers Hat limbed, l.w.pet in pots, Marie Van Houtte in partial shade which reduced its' rate of growth and it was kept smaller than 4'X4' for 7+ years.
I've also espaliered 4 rosebushes for a neighbor who had an area of 20 feet wide by 3 and 1/2 feet from back to front with 'Crepescule' Cornelia' and two Lavender Freindship' rosebushes, against a wooden fence, because his clothesline is in front of it. I do like a challenge.
If there is another way to place more roses in a small space, I haven't found it yet. Origami?

Good Luck,
Luxrosa

Luxrosa, You have some great ideas!! I am going to research some of the roses you have mentioned to eventually work into my garden! lol! Wow!! What would be a good compact rose for a lower tier under the espaliered roses? in white? :)

You might try White Pet or Marie Pavie or any of the other white polyanthas. Kronprinzessis Viktoria von Preussen, the white sport of Souvenir de la Malmaison has staid small for me, as has another sport of it, Mme. Cornelissen, which is a pale pink that is almost white in the heat and is exquisite.

Ingrid

Ingrid and Luxrosa, thank you so much! I'm so impressed with the knowledge and talent of this group! And thanks to TomasLearning who asked this question about OGRs in a small garden in the first place! Lol!. My rose garden is a border that is 6'-7' deep and wraps the edges of the rectangular space that forms a small courtyard 35' wide and 50' deep on one side and 28' on the other because of the back porch and house.
So I believe it is a matter of creative use of space. I know that I will be replanting some of my borders and will integrate the roses that both Ingrid and Luxrosa mentioned into the first and back tier. I have thought of espaliering or trellising along the wall of the garage. I need a creative use for the height of these roses...

I am impressed with the knowledge of this forum and with the photos of well-kept yards. My garden is about a 30 feet wide and 40 feet long. The goal is to put the roses mainly on the perimeter and plant small trees, etc within the perimeter to create the feel of a small but beautiful botanical garden. I will post my revised dream list of roses (I do not want roses that sucker or spread/invasive) and would appreciate any comments.All the roses must be very fragrant and be repeat blooms.for a small garden

ThomasLearning,
That is a great idea. Creating intimacy/ seating in the middle of the garden? What trees did you have in mind?
BTW, the camera does a great job of lying. The borders of my garden are a foot deep in weeds, especially bad this year from rains. :)
That is one thing I have learned the hard way: Avoid very prickly roses if you can, and mulch like crazy (manure w/ stable shavings). The tiered effect I think is wonderful if your roses won't grab you, or get bullet proof clothing to garden in. The thing about small rose gardens, to get the most out of the space you tend to plant as close (4' instead of 5' for example) as you can. (That is why I loved the espalier Idea)
Tending a garden packed with roses when everything is overgrown becomes very difficult. You can avoid that problem if your beds are shallower, but you are giving something up I think. Can't wait to see your list of plants!

Many of the Portland OGRs also stay short, compact and bushy (Rose de Resht, Compte de Chambord, Jacques Cartier, Sydonie). I'm not sure if you can grow gallicas in Florida, but many of them stay short & bushy as well and will stay in a space as long as you dig up the suckers that want to travel wide. A few hybrid musks can stay 4x4 ish for me too -- Ballerina and Lyda Rose are really nice. There are compact moss roses (Cristata, Salet, Nuit de Young), and many centifolias will fit nicely in a 4' wide bed.

There are some larger varieties that will respond well to pruning and stay in bounds, and others that don't bloom well until they reach a certain size and you would be fighting them. (True of many Austins as well, modern roses that have flowers that look old-fashioned -- smaller varieties such as WS2000, Prospero, etc).

I have a bed with a varying width border that is 4' in some places and up to 8' in others and have successfully grown all types of roses in the narrower parts with spring pruning and occasional light summer touch-ups.

This is my dream list of roses. I want re-bloomers and roses with great fragrance. I don’t know much about polyanthas rose and noisette roses. I will try those after the roses below (mostly damasks, bourbons, chinas, china hybrids, hybrid teas, and hybrid perpetuals.)

I want a low maintenance, relatively disease-free rose garden. I am not married to my list and will happily add more appropriate selections and remove inappropriate selections. (I have kept in mind all roses suggested and will refer to this thread when I want to try something new like the International Herald Tribune rose suggested by JeriJen. Thanks for the beautiful photo).

I know Autumn Damask gets big but I want to include it in the garden because it is an ancient plant (I appreciate any tips to control the growth or better behaved closely-related alternative roses). I want to avoid hard pruning. I want to respect the plant so the rose has to be naturally small (4-5 feet) but one or two larger roses are okay.

I do not want any plants that sucker or spread/invasive. Right now I do not want to try climbers.

I want a rose garden with a botanical garden feel of unusual beauty, fragrance, and thoughtful selection. I want different colors. Right now I have red, pink, green, and yellow. I want a purple rose. Reine des Violettes has been ruled out because it blooms once. I would love to know of smaller OGR in other colors.

I appreciate any information on hybrid perpetuals. I spoke to someone who said for some reason she did not grow them. She did not explain why.

I included Captain Harry Stebbings because I thought that would be a very interesting OGR for children since the blooms are so big. I am not sure how big the actual plant gets. I appreciate any other OGR suggestions that children would find interesting.

Right now I am in Fort Lauderdale but by Spring I will be in 7b. The roses will be put in containers until place in permanent location. I will put 7b as the zone on future posts. The list is long because some of the roses will not work for one reason or the other.

This is my dream list of old garden roses:

1. Autumn Damask (Damask ancient)
2. Boule de Neige (Bourbon, 1867)
3. Honoraine de Brabant (Bourbon, age unknown)
4. Maggie (Bourbon found 1980)
5. Souvenir de la Malmaison (Bourbon introduced 1843)
6. Madame Cornelissen (Bourbon introduced 1860 to 1869) (Thank you Ingrid_vc for the suggestion)
7. Golden Wings (Hybrid Spinosissima, Shrub, 1956)
8. Beauty of Rosemawr (Tea, 1903)
9. Westside Road Cream Tea (thank you Luxrosa for the suggestion)
10. Captain Harry Stebbins (Hybrid Tea discovered 1980)
11. Comtesse du Cayla (1902)
12. Fabvier (Hybrid China before 1929) (thank you Luxrosa for the suggestion)
13. Green Rose (China prior to 1845)
14. Old Blush (China Hybrid, 1852)
15. Friz Nobis (Tea Hybrid, 1940)
16. La France (Hybrid Tea 1867)
17. The Doctor (Tea Hybrid, 1936)
18. Marchesa Bocella (Hybrid Perpetual, 1842)
19. Enfant de France (Hybrid Perpetual, 1860)
20. Duke of Edinburgh (Hybrid Perpetual, 1860 to 1869)
21. La Reine (Hybrid Perpetual, 1842)

I corrected the spelling of the first word in the name of the rose for #15:
Fritz Nobis (Tea Hybrid, 1940)

Leighsroses, on average how shallow should the area be? How do you do to making the rose planting shallow?

Thomas, Fritz Nobis is not a hybrid tea and does not rebloom, and is actually a large shrub. Honorine de Brabant can also get large, with rather poor rebloom. Old Blush gets tall and mildews almost everywhere. Golden Wings will also get fairly large. Autumn Damask is a rather ungainly rose with poor rebloom. Sorry to be so negative about these roses but, in order for you to avoid disappointment, perhaps it would be better for now to concentrate on the smaller roses that have very good rebloom like the Bourbons you mention. Some foolproof polyanthas like White Pet and/or Marie Pavie will add charm and lots of blooms.

Ingrid

Well now I'm confused. I've been taught that "Old Garden Roses" were those grown in Europe prior to the importation of the remontant cultivars from China and India.

But I just looked it up in Wikipedia, and see that everything before La France is considered to be OGR ... even those from China. And I was so proud of finally having an 'All OGR' rose garden in Oregon - after being limited to "mere Antiques" in the sweltering miasma of Mississippi. Made me feel like such a proper Colonial Dame.

So, I was thinking, "What OGRs will even GROW in Florida?" As it turns out, there are plenty, now that we're being inclusive. And I suppose that, with this expanded definition, these would include 'Rouletti', a natural dwarf unchanged since its importation from China.

I think quite a few of the Chinas stay small, in addition to the Polyanthas others have mentioned. My personal favorite Polyantha is Clotilde Soupert, which will thrive in a good bit of shade.

Yes. If you limit the amount of soil in which a rose has to grow, you will limit its growth (just as Crape Myrtles stuck in tiny 'dirt islands' in parking lots develop a 'bonsai' growth habit). One good way of doing that is to put them in pots. Floridians frequently grow roses in pots anyway, because of issues with sandy soil and nematodes. Of course, then there are the Fire Ants, who love to move into your nice, high & dry pots...

But the Raspberry Crazy Ants are eliminating the Fire Ants. And, once they've dispatched the Fire Ants, they're too busy attacking electronic systems in houses to be bothered with establishing empires in your pots.

Personally, I prefer to go UP with my roses, and grow them into trees and hedges. This may be too messy for you, and so training them onto arbors/pergolas/topiary frames/trellises may be more to your liking.

And there's always the solution of combining Pyramid & Pot - anchoring pyramidal frames into pots, and thus using roses as vertical accents in the garden.

Thanks ingrid_vc I want honest opinions. Now I need another small yellow OGR plant. Devoniensis is very pretty. I would like to know of others.

I see a lot of photos of Devoniensis that look like the plant is a "tree" rose. Is this the shrub or is it the climber?

Thomas Learning, this sounds like a lovely garden! I am really taken with your vision.

Actually 'Autumn Damask' rebloomed quite well in my garden with at least three good flushes, but it is not the rose for a small, well-groomed garden. It is a great rose for the back of a huge garden. Neither you nor it will be happy if you try to keep this coarse, rambunctious rose tamed. Think of it as the big, handsome, hairy, good-hearted relative from the back woods. You just love him, but you don't invite him to meet your boss while you're waiting to hear if you got your long-awaited promotion. Also, the amount of rebloom I got was related to my climate. Most people growing this rose get one good flush in the spring and a modest repeat in the fall. That is what I would expect you to get in 7b.

I really like 'Honorine de Brabant'. The roses are lovely. It does repeat some, but the spring flush is the only time it is actually spectacular. It wants to be a fountain that spreads out. It is possible to grow HdB successfully as a more restrained shrub; I've seen it done and am working on that myself. However, it required pruning more than once a year. You can do it if you are willing to maintain it. Otherwise HdB will be a space hog.

I have a small curved planting of 5 'Westside Cream Tea' roses. So far I am liking them very much. You should not have trouble keeping this rose in bounds.

'Maggie', 'Old Blush', 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' and 'Marchesa Bocella' were all removed from my garden for reasons of disease. However, others have grown these roses in good health. Disease pressures are frequently specific to location. You very well might not have the problems I had.

Consider looking around and to see if you can find 'Barbara's Pasture Rose'. It is thought to be a superior form of 'La Reine', the roses actually opening better. It is the one I grow and I am very happy with it.

The other roses you mention I have not grown.

Now rein me back if I am getting too excited about your garden idea. If it were me, I would center each leg of the perimeter space with a repeat-blooming climber espaliered on a trellis in the back. Then I would intersperse smaller roses. BTW, I cannot second the suggestion of the polyantha 'Little White Pet' enough. In fact, I would be tempted to plant several as a repeating element and a source of bloom when all else fails. Of course you could do this with 'Westside Cream Tea' if you prefer to avoid anything as modern as a polyantha. And I would include late summer blooming perennials. August is a very weak time in a rose garden, and you will feel less disappointed if you look out and see asters, sedums, and late salvias all giving you color.

I happen to love trees, too. What trees are you considering?

Rosefolly

Ingrid_vc, I just ordered Devoniensis from Vintage Gardens. I am so blessed. Thanks

Thomas,
It is helpful to know you are moving to zone 7b (where you can grow gallicas and all the old European roses) and want relatively disease resistant roses. Are you talking about east coast with high humidity summers? If you don't want to spray fungicides for blackspot control, you will have to re-think your list considerably. Most hybrid teas, bourbons, and hybrid perpetuals will not do so well without spraying. Here most teas and chinas will not survive the cold winters after defoliation in summer, but further south they seem to thrive. So if you could be more specific as to location you will get better recommendations for your area. Disease-resistance in roses is a regional, climate-specific thing.

From your list, the only ones that have done well for me no-spray are Golden wings and Marchesa Bocella. Enfant de France is beautiful if you don't mind bare legs in the summer. Sdlm died three times here but in a warmer location is highly regarded. Mme Cornelissen is still alive but only 12" high runt in my garden. Again, it is location, location, location.

Lori_elf, 'Barbara's Pasture Rose' is beautiful and on the list. Thanks. The tree will be some kind of small fruit tree.

Wow! Thomas, you are talking about your roses in 7b. Gosh, that is a big difference! Lori_elf had a good point about asking approximately where that is, because so much changes in what you can grow in different climates. For example, I doubt I could grow (well)... almost everything on your list. I'm sure that with this amazing group of people, there is someone who can tell you more about how your dream list will fare in your new home in 7b. By shallow I meant narrower. A pot will limit the size and may bloom less but has been done with success.
I like the idea of fruit trees. I was asking about what trees because It will have to be thought out like everything else in terms of size and shading. I had thought of the same thing like patio trees in very large pots or just anchoring that tiny bit of lawn. I love Rosefolly's ideas about the garden! It is so inspiring to hear your enthusiasm!!

I know that the bourbons, and hybrid perpetuals are risks in 7b that is why the list is long. Also, I just want to see the beautiful roses in person and perhaps they will work anyway. If all else fails I will have beautiful china and teas that do well in 7b. But keep suggesting small garden old garden roses because it will benefit many people who can later determine what works best for them.

Rosefolly, thanks for your great ideas and for the great information on Barbara's Pasture Rose. That rose is on my "to buy" list.

Francis dubreuil rose is also on the dream list. Does anyone grown this rose?

I sent cuttings of some of the Sacramento found roses to Dr. Malcolm Manners, who will have plants for sale at the Lakeland Heritage Rose Foundation conference. The plant sale will be Nov 16. Barbara's Pasture Rose will be among them. Gregg Lowery has opined that BPR is La Reine, but as Jeri has said, if that is so, it's the most vigorous one she's ever seen. It will probably be susceptible to blackspot in areas where that is a problem - some years its foliage gets a bit cruddy here but this year mine has been great.

Dr. Manners is working on a full list for his plant sale, but other goodies include Old Town Novato and Roseville White Noisette.

I really advocate going up with roses by growing them up a pillar or espaliering them if you are in a limited space.

Where in 7b are you moving?
Anita

Thomas, don't be completely put-off by little or no repeat in some of your roses. Even when they're not blooming, they'll make great "trellises" for type-2 clematis, which WILL bloom again after the peak heat of summer passes, and need little or no pruning in Spring. If you want flowers through the summer, you can also mix in some type-3 clematis, but they need to be whacked back in the Spring (they bloom on new growth). After mine have another year or two of growth, that's what I'll be doing in my garden.

:-)

~Christopher

Anita, thanks for helping to preserve these beauties. I am thinking of making a rose trellis from re-purposed junk metal. Christopher thanks for the clematis idea,

Thomas, thanks for encouraging ideas! I agree that it is worth it to see these roses and how they will react to the environment that you will have. I'm not sure where you will be in zone 7b, and I'm not sure what zone Charleston, SC is in, but it's a wonderful place to see healthy southern OGRs. I was there in April. The old churches and cemeteries there have a great selection of china, tea and noisettes! Church St. and Meeting St. south of Broad provide a glimpse of roses grown to max size in their environment. The gardens there are quite small as well. I am including a photo of what I think may be a noisette called Marechal Neil?? Dr. Malcolm Manners could probably ID it. However the photo does not do justice to the effect or colors. It was taken with my iphone. The color looks apricot in the photo and it is a medium gorgeous yellow actually, in fact the great thing about this rose is that the petals don't fade to white, but remain yellow even when in petals on the ground. The overall effect is very graceful. I saw it and wanted it!!

Thomas, I have two Francis Dubreuil and both are very rewarding. Good bloom, good repeat, wonderful fragrance, and attractive bushes that stay less than 3ft (for me). As you can tell, I just love them. Lou

Keep the suggestions and ideas coming for Old Garden Roses for small gardens.

Leighsroses, thanks for the photo. I know how you feel about wanting OGRs when you see them.

Lou_texas , my Francis Dubreuil's bud is a beautiful deep red. Good to know the rose bush will stay small.

Here is my revised list:

Revised 'Old Garden Roses' for Small Gardens
Dream List
(08/21/2013)

1. Autumn Damask (Damask ancient) (gets big but I like it. I have to figure how to use it. I like this rose because of its rose history)
2. Boule de Neige (Bourbon, 1867)
3. Honoraine de Brabant (Bourbon, age unknown) (gets big but I like it. I have to figure how to use it)
4. Maggie (Bourbon found 1980)
5. Souvenir de la Malmaison (Bourbon introduced 1843)
6. Madame Cornelissen (Bourbon introduced 1860 to 1869) (Thank you Ingrid_vc for the suggestion)
7. Beauty of Rosemawr (Tea, 1903)
8. Westside Road Cream Tea (Thank you Luxrosa for the suggestion)
9. Captain Harry Stebbins (Hybrid Tea discovered 1980)
10. Devoniensis (Tea, Foster 1838) (Thank you Ingrid_vc)
11. Francis Dubreuil (Tea 1984)
12. Comtesse du Cayla (China 1902)
13. Fabvier (Hybrid China before 1929) (Thank you Luxrosa for the suggestion) (does it have a fragrance?)
14. Green Rose (China prior to 1845) (I like this humble rose)
15. Old Blush (China Hybrid, 1852) (I like this rose because of its rose history)
16. Fritz Nobis (Floribunda, Shrub 1940) (not a OGR; gets big but I like it. I have to figure how to use it)
17. La France (Hybrid Tea 1867)
18. The Doctor (Tea Hybrid, 1936)
19. Marchesa Bocella (Hybrid Perpetual, 1842)
20. Barbara's Pasture Rose (Hybrid Perpetual, found rose) (Thank you Rosefolly)
21. Enfant de France (Hybrid Perpetual, 1860)
22. Duke of Edinburgh (Hybrid Perpetual, 1860 to 1869)
23. La Reine (Hybrid Perpetual, 1842)

I finally got around to researching noisettes and they are charming. Please give names of some dependable bloomers that stay small.