When it comes to hybrid musks, I think Buff Beauty is one of the best, but I'm sure there are other good ones also. My Buff Beauty actually causes cars to slow down and even stop in some cases so they can get a better look at it.

If you don't have Souvenir de la Malmaison (or its nearly identical clone, Mystic Beauty)--both Bourbons, you absolutely must get one or the other.

Can't help you with the reds. In fact, I was under the impression that red reds do not exist among the OGRs--but I'm no expert, so I might be wrong.

Good luck in your search.

Kate

Red OGRs are mostly Hybrid Perpetuals, and not many of them are known to be "good garden plants" so look up a bunch before you make your decisions. I'd suggest going to Vintage Gardens' website (while it lasts) and using their search tools to find varieties that interest you. Then, go to HelpMeFind and search their pages for more info, pictures, comments and nurseries that sell them.

www.vintagegardens.com

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose search at HelpMeFind

A couple of red OGRs that I know are Charles de Mills and Alain Blanchard. They are Gallicas and once bloomers, I believe. I also once had Red Moss. I do not know where they are currently available.

For a white rose, you might want to consider Kronprinzessin Viktoria von Preussen, which is a sport of Souvenir de la Malmaison and blooms quite often, at least for me. White Pet is a tought little rose with small white flowers that you might want to try. Cornelia is a pretty hybrid musk that's pink; another pink is Felicia, which has larger flowers than Cornelia.

Ingrid

Some of the most beautiful red hybrid perpetuals that do well in my area include Francois Premier, Henry Nevard, and Comtesse O'Gorman. I bought them all from Eurodesert when it was closing. All were performing wonderfully in the desert where that nursery was located and all have done well in my inland empire garden which while still hot, is much less so than where Eurodesert was. All these reds are of a cooler hue (with bluish tones). All three are very fragrant and repeat. Comtesse O'Gorman has a lower, more spreading habit than the other two, and she will tip root if given the chance. Francoise Premier grows in a small to moderate sized vase shape. Both of these have flowers packed with petals. Henry Nevard tends to grow in a vase shape and is a stouter more "beefy" plant. Flowers don't have quite as many petals as the others but they are more cup shaped (versus the others being flatter). I remember when shopping for red hp's in Cliff Orent's garden, that he said to me that others told him Henry Nevard was a dog for them, however it had performed well for him. I bought it and have been pleased.

None of the above three have disease in my garden where pressure for rust and mildew are high. However, blackspot is a seldom-seen malady here, with a only a few varieties I've had over the years being afflicted, so I don't know how they would do in an area where blackspot is a problem.

For white ones maybe Frau Karl Drushki (although not fragrant) or Karl Forster?

For pale pink my favorite is the alba Felicite Parmentier. For sheer beauty of flower and fabulous perfume she has few peers, however she is only a once bloomer. Another that I think is gorgeous is the new import to the US, Siwa. She is a dog rose hybrid. Flowers look very similar to FP and possibly just as fragrant. Mine is a recent introduction to my garden so I don't know about rebloom yet. Foliage is lovely however, and the plant seems to tolerate shade (as does Felicite). Absolutely clean foliage. Vigorous growth (mature size not know yet). Souvenir de la Malmaison is also a beautiful rose, although it doesn't seem to perform quite as well as the other two in my garden.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Siwa on Help Me Find

A white rose that is not mentioned too often is Maitland White, a Bermuda found rose. Here in my hot humid climate it does repeat bloom; I love this rose!

I don't grow these "reds" but wanted to add them to the discussion because I'm interested in these and would love to hear of personal experience: Baron Girod de l'Ain and Roger Lambelin.

Roger Lambelin is said to be a very weak grower.

If you want red and white, one of my favorite combinations (tho not truly OLD roses) is the Wichurana CLIMBER, 'Sombreuil' (NOT the bush, 'Mlle. de Sombreuil') growing next to, or in a vase with the deep red Austin, 'Prospero.'

DISCLAIMER: I have NO idea how these roses would do in OK, which is far hotter/humid than my coastal SoCal "desert."

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal
=====

Bouquet Below: 'Prospero' w/ 'Sombreuil' (Cl.)

Wow! Gorgeous vase full!

Thanks everyone for these suggestions. I will check all of them out, appreciate it very much. Jeri, that's a lovely picture.

Sara-Ann -- That's my favorite Christmas bouquet. And both are usually blooming for the season.

Jeri

For pale pink, Marchesa Boccella. Extremely robust, good rebloom, excellent fragrance.

Thank you everyone. I had time to look up a few of these and I'm impressed so far. I appreciate your time and suggestions.