It takes my climbers forever to start really blooming, in general. I would say 3 years or more. I grow mostly teas noisettes, etc. My Crepuscule has been in the ground around 3 years (maybe more) and it still blooms sporadically. However, it could be my climate, not sure. I do know I planted Cl. Mrs Herbert Stevens at least 3 years ago (maybe 4) and just this year it really started blooming. Now it's a bloom machine! Same for Buff Beauty, that has been in about 5 years now. Same for Cl Maman Cochet. I have pretty much accepted it will take these climbers 4-5 years to get mature enough to really start blooming. That has been my experience and I haven't grown roses in any other climate, so can only speak for my hot climate.

Ken and dmoore - thanks for the replies. I was also considerring a river birch as well. The longevity was kinda an issue, but you can't have it all I guess. We have mags here - royal star and mag soulageanna. We have more problems with late frosts on roses and hydrangeas than with magnolias. I know several fanstatic specimens that shouldn't be alive because of soil or wind, but they look amazing and aren't cared for at all. I often see royal star growing upright. In terms of soil ammendments, I usually plant high because we have such hard clay with no organic matter at all (new subdivision). In the winter thaws, water often puddles. I will argue that no ammendment causes the trees (non-native) to just plain give up...I add a generous amount of rotten manure, sand, pine bark chips and old potting soil into the whole and chop the clay up..no native soil ever leaves the whole (except rocks and really large clumps of clay). Ken your right though, 90% soil ammendments would cause the tree to grow only in the hole and no where else. (I am more for like 20% ammendements). If you don't add soil...you cannot plant the tree because you need to get more dirt to get the root flare a nice mound. I top-dress religiously with manure and compost once or twice a season. I dig shallow craters though, not fence posts! LOL The downspout can be moved...but not much. I would like to garden around it, so I think Ken is right, a large tree just will not fit no matter what. I have been lurking on the conifer forum as well, and there are so many choices for a moderate dwarf...any suggestions other than strobus? I remember that E. White pine hates our clay (but Pinus flexilis - limber pine loves it). I am planning on putting these on the NW corner of the property as a wind-break. If I divert the downspout, a lilac or royal star magnolia would fit perfectly I think, even an upright Japanese maple. Somehow I have a lot of red bushes and trees planted already ...so something green would be nice! âÂÂ>

When I got bands last year, a few had this "odd" look -- and as I think of it now, all of those were of roses that grow as climbers. If you think about how the outer tips of climbers look, you'll recognize that brown piece as coming from 1-2 year old wood, perhaps from a lateral. It's like rooting cuttings of a tree -- you'll be using the outer tips rather than any thick stems from further down. And on a climber, those "outer tips" will seem far "twiggier" than the ends of an often-pruned shrub. When it starts to grow, it's as though the cells are still "programmed" to grow the way they would at the tips of the climber. Those thin bits of new growth will feed the plant, and then when it has the reserves to do so, it will push a new, thick cane from the roots, looking more like the substantial growth at the base that you expect to see. THEN it will look like a baby climber, and by next year, you can trim off those thin "feeder stems. If you're accustomed to bands of shrubbier roses, keep in mind that when they're pruned for cuttings, they'll often be pruning canes. Repeat-blooming climbers, on the other hand, usually have most of their canes left alone, and just their laterals or the tips of the canes trimmed -- and those are the pieces which will be used for cuttings. At least, that's what I noticed with non-climber bands from Heirloom -- and RVR and Long Ago Roses and Vintage Gardens. Most of those bands appeared to have been rooted from cane cuttings, rather than lateral cuttings. Unfortunately, my 'Jaune Desprez' didn't make it through the crazy Winter we had, but I do still have some pics to show you how mine grew. Here it is the day it arrived, just after I repotted it, April 26, 2013. Doesn't it look like it was a rooted lateral? Here it is again June 2, 2013. I put some tree twigs in the pot for support, but you can still see the original part of the rose. It sprouted a few more leaves, but didn't really grow longer. But those leaves fed the plant, and on the left side you can see a thick, new shoot coming from the roots. Here it is again June 13, 2013. Note that the original piece hasn't grown much, but that thick new shoot sure has. July 8, 2013 -- that new shoot just kept growing, and started branching. The original piece, however, mostly just sat there and fed the plant. When I planted it and trained it onto a tree (August 10, 2013), all the substantial growth continued from that new thick cane. You can see the original stems did grow a little more, but gradually it faded away. September 6, 2013 -- that thick new cane continued to branch and grow... September 28, 2013 My 'Orfeo' and 'Nouveau Monde' grew about the same way -- thin, twiggy original cuttings simply fed the plant, and then new, thick canes shot from the base. If you put a nice mix of organic nutrients into your potting soil, and give your baby plenty of sun and water, you'll soon see more of what you expect as "normal" growth starting fresh from the roots. Good luck! I wish I still had my 'Jaune Desprez' but I think expecting a newly-planted Tea-Noisette to survive one of the worst Winters in years in an area that was already on the edge of its hardiness was just asking too much. I've since replaced it with 'Baltimore Belle' in the same spot -- which, incidentally, is starting a second flush of flowers now. :-) ~Christopher

I love, love this forum - I learn so many interesting things! I have 2 comments: 1) I grew Buff Beauty along a fence. It went up an arch that was supposed to be for Cl. Iceberg, and over to the house, and then started racing Iceberg up the house. The BB got at least 13 feet up the house (before we had to cut it back to paint) - that was about 22 feet in total away from its base. So, I agree that it can, indeed, be grown as a climber (at least here in No Cal). It is now again putting out long canes and aiming to get back onto the house so it can go vertical again! 2) I am intrigued that evidently there is a controversy about the "everblooming" Cl Cecile Brunner - whether it might be the "spray" version. I was so amused that it took DNA testing to confirm that the 3 types of CB (bush, spray, and climber) were indeed sports of each other, instead of the spray one being a completely different rose (which was the "conventional wisdom" of even very expert rose folks for decades). A reconfirmation of the old "if it walks like a duck....."adage. Thanks greybird! I have all three versions of CB in my garden. The climbing one (which repeats only sporadically with scattered bloom) grew 3 stories up my house. The spray one (which is VERY VERY old - 80-90 years, at least) is 8-10 feet wide, and 10-12 feet high. So, does anyone have the "everyblooming" CB "climber" that has actually climbed up 20-35 feet, like the original climber? Just curious. Jackie