The only thing I can contribute is that it's probably your soil. In previous posts you have described your soil and it sounds awful for growing roses. And I told you to bring in truckloads of organic matter.

Your soil test will tell you if any major elements are low, but pay attention to the organic matter percentage.

I agree with veilchen. Before planting anything I amend the soil with plenty of organic matter (Compost/aged manure/ mushroom compost). Clay soil is also amended with plenty (about 5-6 inches of coarse sand) and limestone as needed. Sandy soil with plenty of clay granules. I want a soil that is both able to retain water but also drains well. I use organic fertilizers (Pellets) and every year when the roses are dormant, I add 1 inch of aged/3 year composted manure and 2 inches of mushroom compost from big bags. I tell you my roses do very well!

But it is a fact that some roses simply do not do well some places. Doing the research about which roses do well in your local area, will spare you many sleepless nights. But sometimes we want to try new roses and have to be the pioneers and do the testing ... and by trial and error we learn which roses do well for us in our gardens and with the care we are able to give them.

Many of us have a death bed (out of sight) with the duds that did not perform as we expected or hoped. I am not loosing any sleep over them. If a rose in its 3. year do not
live up to my expectations (which are high!) they are being replaced with something I hope performs better. Some will be keepers and give me much joy and will scent the garden and my house, other will be spindly, bloom sparsely and be disease prone. I have given roses away that performed badly in my garden to others where they became wonderful roses. So
it seems like a garden is constant process of trial and error. Its not worth loosing any sleep over ..there are many roses out there that will love to grow in my garden. I have just not given them a chance yet. I can only care for my roses as good as I can and If they do not like it here .. then they must find another place to live.

Jim, growing Climbing Crimson Glory up your way is as good as a death wish! There is just no possible way it is going to survive the winter. Why don't you try Quadra (available from Pickering?)if you want an everblooming red climber? And you're going to find it less expensive in the long run to plant fewer roses and get each one a sack of composted cow manure to go in the planting hole.
Westerland and Dortmund are not hardy and nothing you do is going to make them so. Among the Austins, I've found Mary Rose very hardy, and Fisherman's Friend did well last winter and is flowering now. Also Molyneux but that needs winter protection.
Our local rose society planted a public rose garden in Kingston (at the State Senate House site) in 1976. By 2005 it was not looking very happy. Many bushes had died and the soil had compacted so last year we dug out the entire bed, put in a dozen sacks of composted cow manure and replanted - it has never looked back and is doing great.
Roses are easy to grow, as Dr. Westcott said many times,but you have to take some basic steps - they need good soil, good drainage, sun and lots of water. Given that they are a lot easier than a lawn!

Some good advice.

I've decided that:

1) To stop hoping that a straggly rose is some day going to get better. Be ruthless and SP it!

2) Cut down on the number of roses so I can take care of them better. Buy a new rose out goes one of the weaklings.

3) Then I can have time to improve my soil of which I have actually added compost more than once in the past. My soil is not really that bad. I just like to complain. But I promise to do more.

Now Crimson Glory came to me in an exchange of rooted cuttings. Not my choice. But a good case of one I should have gotten rid of before. And how I just hope it will get better, maybe more fertilizer whatever.

Finally I like Cupshaped's attitude. If it doesn't grow for you out it goes no matter what someone else's experince is.

New Dawn's days are numbered!

Ramblin' Red has been mentioned on the forum as a good red climber for the north. Sharifa Asma is a hardy Austin.

Sometimes it seems that a rose will fail without a clear reason as to why. Maybe there's a crown gall somewhere, or maybe winter damage has somehow affected the roots in a way that can't be seen above ground.

In our zone occasional losses might be part of growing roses. For a rose that's special, I would try growing another specimen of it.

Three years ago I replaced a failing La Reine, and my new La Reine has been excellent. I'm so glad I tried growing it again. The first La Reine had sustained damage to the bud union. Maybe a fungus problem was at work as well.

I also like to add lots of organics to the soil. I think the quality of the soil can make a big difference in winter time.

oldroser

I've heard good things about Quadra and will definitely try it.

As to the others, Dortmund is a kordesii hybrid and hardy for me. Westerland is 7 years old but I admit is not all that healty. I'll try winter protection. And CG is 2 years old and currently growing nicely this year. I'm not expecting it to get very big but I just wanted to see it's famous flower and fragrance. Last year I thought it was about to croake.

Mary Rose died here. So it goes. A slight difference in location and soil.

Jim, Everybody grows Canadian Explorers here because that is what they get in at the nursery. Henry Kelsey is all over town, blooming all summer. I haven't got one yet. Theresa Bugnet has three season interest, nice leaves, pretty pink flowers and fall color. It is a good one for an entrance, almost thornless.
I've tried some climbers but not much luck. Very sparse blooms.
I think my land plays out quickly, too. Good growth for a couple of years, then it stands there.

I have a small climber that is a cross between The Fairy and Therese Bugnet from an amateur hybridzer, Joan Monteith. I haven't seen here on the forum lately. It has nice foliage, blooms well in June (well what rose doesn't) and a little latter. But it's nice for foliage interest as it doesn't BS. Grows on a small stone well that's been there forever.

I haven't tried TB either but Henry Kelsey used to grow on the other side of the well but konked out a couple of years ago. It was nice.

I need to try more of the recent Explorers like Quadra and Louis Joliet that I've read good things about. (LJ is not new but said to be one of the most floriferous of the Explorer's)

Could be your soil. Mine was so bad on the Western side of the house (because of some tree that used to grow there) that I finally gave up on trying to amended it. The only long term solution was to dig out the entire bed down to 4.5 feet, put in a one foot layer of gravel, and then fill with the best top soil that money can buy. Did two beds like this and it just about killed me (nearly bankrupted me too), but in the end worth it because now I can grow literally anything in those beds.

Have you evaluated the amount of direct sunlight these roses are receiving? As a general rule shade and roses don't mix.

I don't worry much about them... as a matter of fact, sometimes I will lull myself to sleep by listing them in my mind, and trying to recall things about each one. I don't get TOO obsessive about doing that last bit, cus I usually end up having to get up and check something in a book to see if I am right; so most of the time I just list the names.

Mom says I used to whistle myself to sleep when I was a kidlet (guess I didn't know the words) so this is likely an improvement...

Molineux

I''m going to make a chart with time listed on one side and my beds on the other.

Then on the hour I will check to see when they are getting full sun. And when it stops. It could get complicated as some get it off and on. Oh well it will help to see what is what.

Hi Jim
I agree with you on not too many roses, or at least roses that cannot manage all most by themselves. Have you tried Albas like Maiden's Blush and Felicite Parmentier?

Soil improvement is worth the effort! The first ground breaking job is hard work and if nessesery I would recomend renting a machine to plow you garden at least the beds and mix in all the organics you can afford. I use horse manure, composted cowmanure, seaweed meal (very easy to use) and sacks of organic fertilizer I find at the gardensenters. After the soil is amended it is easier to keep it up with compost and manure mixed in the top layer once or twice a year with some kind of fertilizer. I see you get a lot of advice on soil amendments. If you can take one more seaweed meal is worth checking out. If the soil is mostly silt or sand several sacks of it will show on your roses.

Suprising to hear that Westerland is not so healty in your garden. Here it is considered one of the bullitproof ones.

I live in an are where blackspot can be a terrible problem. In the rosarium here there is one rose that every year is marked of as healthiest and that gives more flowers than any other. I september it is the rose that still looks like it is midsummer; Astrid Lindgren/Dream Sequence. After the first long flush it takes a brake with only some flowers before a very good fall repeat.

I agree with most of the advice here. I agree with the person that said to remove the weak roses and start over. When doing so just be sure to ammend the bed appropriatly with organics and creek sand or creek bed if possible. I'd also throw in some manures (preferably horse). I'm attaching my website URL in case you want more information on basic gardening.

If you really want to look at Crimson Glory, try the bush form. The climber will most likely never bloom since it flowers only on old wood.
One I really like this year is Fisherman's Friend - a dark red, very fragrant Austin. I did give it some shredded bark as winter protection but last winter was mild and it brought a lot of old wood through. For a fragrant, dark red, free bloomer, it's hard to beat.
Adding compost once, doesn't really do it. The stuff decomposes and gets used up. I find that the shredded cedar bark that I use for winter protection, also makes a nice mulch that adds more humus as time goes on.
Also bear in mind that you haven't really tried a plant until you kill it three times - old gardener's motto!

jim_w_ny -

We would love to see your garden - do you have a picture? Like the old saying goes.."a picture tells a thousand words."

The soil, the temperature, the watering and where your roses are situated play a role in the overall health of the roses.

My backyard looks like a complete mess. Nothing seems to grow well that's why I grow my roses in pots. Also because I'm renting at the moment. Anyway, the landscaper did a horrible job. He didn't use the rotary hoe to loosen up the soil and as a result, we have water drainage problems.

I wish I could have the guts to shovel prune all those ugly plants in the backyard. My pessimistic sister keeps yelling at me that I shouldn't throw those dead plants away - they are "living things"...and they cost money to buy them. Just can't wait to move out and have my own house.

Now, another thing I like to ask you guys:

Why is that you guys like to use organic fertilisers and not organic fertilisers? Organic fert are expensive. Is it because they maintain the "flora and fauna" in the soil?

I just had a soil analysis for my main bed. It found 4.6% oranic matter. Not bad but of course could be better. But everything else seems to be OK. For a time I thought the problem was drainage but yesterday I dug a hole filled it with water and waited for it to drain. I thought this could be awhile but lo and behold it drained in less than three hours.

Now as to organic matter. This spring I applied alfalfa meal and cow manure, then I mulched with newspapers and grass clippings that are worn out now with a lot of paper showing. Somewhere along in summer I put some Rosetone. I've meant to put some horse manure but didn't get around to it. I've been wondering how that works on top of my "mulch", I suppose just put in on there.

Pictures? Despite being somewhat computer literate a few years ago I still don't know how to do that. Besides most of my rose gardens are a mess.

I've been thinking seriously about giving up on roses. Either that or to drastically cut back on the numbers as I can't take care of the ones I have. That may be the best solution what with being 80 years old now.

But I have so much invested in trying to grow roses! I have tons of books and I spend hours poring over them. The DK book by the Quest-Risons I have nearly memorized. And then there is all that work, planting, pruning,etc.

So meanwhile back at the ranch one has black spot, Japanese beetles, winter kill, poor choices, the wrong rose and all those infernal weeds that manage to tolerate much better the conditions that the roses find not to there liking.

Now and then there is a rose that inspires. Lately that has been Baltimore Belle. Hardy, fragrant, vigorous and profuse blooming in Spring. It grows with what I have to give it. Currently has many new 10' canes. Just like that. No intense inspection to see if you can determine what ails a failing rose. Of course you can't.

Jim, before giving up altogether, I'd suggest just once, planting a rose by digging a hole two feet deep and at least as much across and filling in around the rose with 50% composted cow manure. And then stand back.
And this winter, spread some lime on the whole garden. It's not just that your soil is acid but we're in an area of rain that tests out about the same as vinegar.
Suspect that any soil test will come out looking OK but how deep is your soil cover? Not much, as I recall. I know that mine constituted a thin gray layer over glacial moraine - typical of New England worn out pastures. I did my digging with a crowbar, levering out the rocks.
You're far too young to give up on roses at this point!