Wow nice and congrats!

I think I am waaaaaaayyyyy behind you on that list.

How neat, Diane! Congratulations! Burling isn't going to suggest a product or treatment she hasn't had good success with. I've not used it, but I respect her abilities, talent and experience. She is an excellent "plant person" with nearly forty years of experience. Blessings that both should thrill you for many years to come! Kim

Thanks Kippy. I can't believe that when I checked it had been almost a year when I reserved them so yours will arrive before you know it.

Appreciate the confirmation on that Kim. I kinda figured she wouldn't recommend if not OK but am just being overly cautious at this point. I also remember your telling me to use the Miracle Grow plant food weakly weekly. Is that correct?

Diane

That's what I have found beneficial with slow starting cuttings, Diane, but that's up to you. If you use the Quick Start, wait on the plant food until it appears it's needed. All of this depends upon whether it appears the plants need it or not. If they grow as you expect them to do and nothing seems "wrong", leave them alone. If they seem to just sit there forever, give them a bump with a weak feeding. The ones I fed weakly, weekly, I needed to push because they were needed elsewhere and weren't developing quickly enough. That doesn't mean all others won't or will. They may love your house and do just fine all by themselves. Kim

Congratulations, Diane, how nice that these plants were of a good size. Mine was very small, sat there for quite some time and then put on a little growth spurt, but now it's stopped growing again. I wonder if a weak solution of fish meal and/or kelp would give it a boost, or is that not advisable when the weather is hot? I won't be able to buy the product Burling mentioned for some days.

It's going to be fun when a bunch of us have this rose and we can compare notes and take pictures. I wish so much that mine would grow more quickly since I'm dying to see at least a bloom or two.

Ingrid

P.S. Burling wrote me an e-mail a few days ago saying my plant was ready, obviously somehow having missed the fact that she had sent me one (tiny) one already. I was just a little tempted to say send it, since I knew it would be a bigger rose by this time, but I knew how many of you were waiting and I just couldn't. Darn those childhood teachings of right and wrong!

Let her know she has sent a small one, Ingrid. She could be thinking of replacing it due to the size, when you're thinking she has forgotten. You never know until you ask. Kim

Let her know she has sent a small one, Ingrid. She could be thinking of replacing it due to the size, when you're thinking she has forgotten. You never know until you ask. Kim

Congratulations fogrose. I am on the list too. It will be interesting to see how ALM will perform here; kind of a true test to one extreme regarding its toughness.

I have reserved a special place for this rose. I could never get an idea as to how long the wait will be for ALM; think I have one now. I am just hoping that there is some way to start an exponential increase of availability.

Because my garden is not large, the open space is almost an eyesore; especially because this beauty will be a focal point:( If ever there was a rose for me to exercise more patience; this is one, it is a true test.

Lynn

Thanks for the advice on waiting to fertilize Kim. I'll see how the roses do with the Quick Start first.

Ingrid, I think the Quick Start is for new transplants. It may work for you but am not sure.

Lynn, not only did I have to wait a year but I understand it takes it's own sweet time building size and one must hearden your heart and disbud or there won't be much growth.

Here's photos of both plants so you can see their nice sizes.

{{gwi:298541}}

and

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I feel like having pictures made and carrying them in my wallet to show people.

Diane

You are too funny, Diane! Those are nice bands. Burling did well with them. It CAN be done and they WILL grow, given half a chance.

Here's the skinny on the Transplant Liquid...

How to Use

Mix 1 capful (2 oz.) in 2 gallons of water (1/2 capful in 1 gallon of water).

Apply around and on leaves of firmed-in transplants or onto soil surface and leaves of young plants.

When to Apply

Feed at time of transplant and again 7 days later. Thereafter, begin regular feeding with the appropriate Miracle-Gro® Plant Food every other week.

Fertilizer Analysis

4-12-4

It's less concentrated N-K than weak regular All Purpose Miracle Gro (or Vigoro, etc.), but you can see how they would compare. Lower Nitrogen reduces the potential for burning. Of course, use only on properly watered plants as it is STILL a "salty water" and will draw moisture out of the plant to be replaced by the chemical salts.

Regular Miracle Gro All Purpose is 24-8-16 guaranteed analysis for a tablespoon per gallon of water. Even reduced by half, it's 12-4-8. Diluting it further, lowers the analysis numbers. So, you can see even they suggest "weakly, weekly" at first. The only disadvantage to continuing using the transplant formula would be possibly less than optimal fertlizer levels. If you're also using any kind of organic feeding, you can add the guaranteed analysis ratings of all of the products to get an idea of the total NPK levels you're applying. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Miracle Grow Quick Start Transplant liquid

Thanks for the additional info Kim. I'll be using this on all my new Vintage bands that arrived Tuesday as well and a baby Compte de Chambord that's new from Two Sisters roses.

Diane

Roseseek,

I am assuming that the transplant liquid and fertilization process is only to be used with potting soil or mix that is absent fertilizers like the Miracle Gro MOisture control as I believe it is supposed to feed the plants?

I potted my plants in MG M.C. And some already show signs of nitrogen of Iron deficiencies. Wondering if the method you described is better?

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 1:57

{{gwi:298543}}

Slow, yes. Mine arrived from Burling in October, 2011 so it is almost two years old. It's a foot high and finally planted at the base of an arbor about a week ago. Pinch, pinch, pinch, feed, feed, feed, water, water, water, not necessarily in that order. But after a sniff of one of its few developed blooms I do think it's worth the wait. And those buds you see aren't there any more... Gean

Time release fertilizers, like organic fertilizers, provide smaller doses of nutrients for longer periods than inorganic sources. Each time you water, a small amount is leached from the pellets incorporated in the soil. The temperature and amount of water determine how much at each watering and how long it takes to leach all the "food" from them. The hotter the soil temps and greater the amount of water, the faster they are used up, hence the shorter the time they "feed". Cooler temps with less water make them last longer. That's why the time release products usually state, "Feeds UP TO" so many months.

If the plant is demonstrating nutrient deficiencies, applying weak solutions of an inorganic, preferably water soluble type fertilizer, such as the Quick Start Transplant Liquid, can help even things out. If you're concerned about over dosing it by adding the liquid to the time released, then dilute the liquid even more than the label instructs you to. You can't hurt anything by feeding LESS. You can always add more, but it's quite difficult to take some out if you've put in too much.

If it says a cap full in two gallons of water, put half a cap in two gallons, or even less of the concentrate to the same amount of water. If after applying that concentration it doesn't look sufficiently improved after a few days, give it more of the more diluted solution.

I've always taken my cue from the original Miracle Gro Water Soluble. For outdoor plants it instructed one tablespoon per gallon every two weeks. The same product for house plant use was half a tablespoon per gallon at the same intervals. Houseplants often experience higher evaporation rates than outdoor, in ground plants do. They also have smaller root/soil balls with frequently higher salt build up issues because of water collecting in the saucers and evaporating, leaving the increased salts behind.

If you're worried about providing too much salt, just use a less concentrated solution. Outdoors, with regular watering, the salt build up shouldn't be an issue, unless there are saucers under the pots, but if the water drains from the pot and goes elsewhere, there shouldn't be a build up issue.

The manufacturer is going to tell you to use as much as possible with the least potential for harm so the product sells. Using less of it won't "harm" anything, it just sells less product because you aren't using it up as quickly. And, as I said, you can always add more. You'll need to experiment to see how much you should use in your conditions to provide the effects you desire as it's going to vary greatly from one situation/climate to the next. But applying it half strength, or even less, is a good place to start. Kim

Roseseek, (Kim?)

Thank you for the advice... again :)

Lynn

Yes ma'am, Kim. You're welcome. You'll find I'm very much a "wait and see" type of gardener. Do little things in steps because extremes of any conditions, combined with heavy feeding, spraying or other "treatments" can be much like taking pain meds with alcohol. It's way too easy to overdo anything. More plants (people and animals, too) are lost due to what is done TO them than FOR them. I think you'll have the best luck dealing with your alkalinity issues by adding decent levels of organic mulches and keeping the soil flushed with generous water. Unfortunately, unless you put something like a reverse osmosis system on your irrigation source, the natural and added "salts" are things you just have to live with.

The hill facing my old garden in Newhall had water seeping out of it at the base, nearly year round. It hosted a slimy, pink mold and was said to be so alkaline, it couldn't be cost effectively purified. NOTHING grew where that stuff flowed. Kim

Hi Gean, glad your ALM is doing well. What fertilizer do you use?

Diane

I use dilute Miracle Grow solution, Diane. I try to keep the pots moist and fertilize about once a week. Gean

Thanks Gean. I'll try half strength but may not have time for a weekly application. We'll see.

Diane

Kim, I was wondering about my MG w/MC in 3-gallon pots with this years spring bands. We've had 10"-13" of rain since I potted them up about 6 weeks ago. Last week I finally pulled them all under the porch roof because the pots were never drying out! (Normally pots here need at least daily watering this time of year!)

You confirmed my thoughts that all the rain would speed up the MG fertilizer rate of release, but by how much? Could it all be released by now?

One of the benefits of the moisture control soil is supposedly its ability to help prevent "over watering". The coir retains more moisture than peat without becoming as soggy as the peat will. It supposedly permits better air circulation through the soil when wet. Perhaps it was beneficial you used it with all the rain you've experienced?

As for whether all the time released food has been released, it may be. I don't have a bag handy to read, but if it says "feeds three to six months", that means under the hottest, wettest conditions they tested it under, it continued "feeding" for the three months. If you've had more extreme conditions than those under which it was tested, it might have released all of the fertilizer in less than three months. If you've had them potted in it for more than three months and they've received that extra high rainfall for that time, it's likely used up. How do they appear to you? If they're the normal color with normal seeming growth, I wouldn't worry about it. If they look stressed, investigate whether the soil smells soured or normal, let them dry out a bit (IF possible) and see what that does. It should be safe, if you're game, to try a light feeding and see how they respond. Nothing strong, half strength or weaker should be enough to see a response. But, if it continues being rainy without an increase in heat and sun levels, it may take them a longer time to provide you the response. Kim

Kim here's a photo of Duchess de Brabant in one of those 3-gallon pots. Mutibilis and Clotide Soupert have the same discorloration and a few others look like they might be headed the same direction. But they don't look "stressed" at all only discolored--I just disbudded about 6 buds on the Duchess and 5 on Clotide Soupert (who actually looks the worse in terms of color.)

So what is this that I'm seeing?

OP sorry for the hijack. If I can add anything on topic it would be that my 2 ALMcs look pretty good. They are funny though, they really seem to grow with amazing spurts and then they just sit there for weeks, then when you think it's never going to do anything it gets another growth spurt.

It looks chlorotic to me. That can be nitrogen and iron deficiency. It can also be caused by over watering. Nitrogen flushes though the soil with water. Too much water can reduce the amount of available nitrogen, as well as reduce the amount of oxygen in the soil. Iron is better absorbed with nitrogen, like taking Vitamin D with Calcium. One aids the other to be absorbed and utilized. It shouldn't surprise you some look that way while others don't. If they were all budded to the same root stock, so all the roots were genetically identical, they would pretty much be afflicted with the same maladies at the same time, within the limits of the scions' genetics. But, they aren't. Each one has a different root system with different capabilities. Some absorb iron more easily than others, just like some people absorb nutrients from foods more easily than others. That's a huge benefit of having a garden all budded on the same root stock. It's often easier to figure out what to feed and how to to use. With each root system often completely different from the next, it can lead to one area requiring more of some type of fertilizer than others.

Check to see if the pots seem water logged. If the soil appears, feels and smells as it should, then holding too much water shouldn't be the issue. What have they been fed, how much, and when? Perhaps these particular plants require heavier levels of iron and nitrogen. Multiflora types do here in my garden due to their inability to deal with higher alkalinity. Many roses aren't as efficient in dealing with lower nitrogen and iron locked up in insoluble compounds due to alkalinity. Sometimes, the plants grow much more quickly than they are able to take up the nitrogen and iron. I used to see that in the old garden when heavy mulches of fresh horse manure were applied then heavily watered in. A lot of nitrogen from the urine pushed the growth faster than iron could be absorbed, or when insufficient iron was available because the conditions were still too alkaline so it wasn't being released.

If the issue is seen in older leaves, it means it occurred when those were growing as new foliage, or perhaps the plant is preparing to shed them as they have reached the end of their useful life. In new foliage, the issue is currently occurring and can be "fixed".

If you have recently fed them, perhaps they are being pushed from the freshly applied nitrogen combined with the heat. If the food didn't contain enough iron, they may benefit from something which contains a bit higher available iron. If they haven't been fed in a while, they may be telling you they need feeding. It's also possible there is enough iron there, but they are reacting to the iron being locked up in the soil by alkalinity. Perhaps the ones already showing the issue are more sensitive to it than the others, or those pots have become more stressed than the others due to being more exposed to reflected heat or direct sun? It's difficult to determine without actually seeing how they are arranged, how they are exposed to potentially affecting causes.

Might the affected pots get more heat from nearby hard scape? Or, might they not get as much sunlight as the ones not showing the chlorosis? If the others are heading toward the same condition, it sounds as if it's heat, water levels or lack of fertilizer. The ones already showing the symptoms are either more sensitive to the issue, or are encouraged to be more sensitive because of more heat to their pots, pushing them to grow more vigorously, using up the available nutrient levels faster.

When and what did you feed last? They are showing they seem to need more iron and nitrogen, whether it's because they didn't receive enough; it's been flushed through the soil by more water; are being pushed by greater heat; are reacting to alkalinity issues; or are just in a more vigorous growth spurt than those nutrient levels can efficiently provide for is difficult to say from the photos. What seems the most plausible to you? Thanks. Kim

I forgot to include, if you are only using organic fertilizers, and there is insufficient nitrogen available to feed the soil organisms which "digest" the organics to release their nutrients, it's natural for the plants to suffer nitrogen deficiency (chlorosis) temporarily. The soil bacteria require nitrogen, oxygen, moisture and some heat to begin the digestion process. If there isn't enough nitrogen available, they will "rob" it from the plant to begin their digestion process. Once they generate more nitrogen from digesting the organics than they require for digestion, it's released and available for the plants. So, it IS possible, if you've recently given them organic fertilizer, they may "recover" all by themselves with nothing more required of you.

If you want to speed things along, green them up faster, and you have recently fed with organics, providing a weak solution of water soluble fertilizer higher in available nitrogen can alleviate the temporary chlorosis by providing the plant with a source of immediately available nitrogen. It can also help speed along the digestion of the organics by feeding the soil bacteria, enabling them to more quickly, efficiently digest the fertilizer, presuming they have enough of the other requirements for that to occur.

The water soluble nitrogen feeds both the plant and the soil bacteria. It also slightly acidifies the soil until it is used up or flushes through the pots, so if the plants improve, it could be due to either possibility. The plants lacked nitrogen for whatever reason and it provided it; or for whatever reason, the iron was locked up in insoluble compounds due to alkalinity and the nitrogen sufficiently acidified the soil for iron to be released to the plant.

Or, here is where some of Strawberryhill's "experiments" can be put into use if you are sufficiently curious, have the time and energy to employ them. Acidifying the water used to irrigate them with a bit of the lemon juice can neutralize the alkalinity of the water, helping to unlock iron in the soil. She also suggested using a vinegar solution, which I honestly fear the mis use of. Vinegar has been used as an herbicide. In too high concentrations, it will burn plants, and can outright kill them. With the natural Human Nature of, "if a little is good, a whole lot is a whole lot better", it could be very easy to nuke the plant with too much, burning it badly or even outright killing it.

You have to take into consideration all of the variables. If it's been cooler where you live and there is a sudden heat spike, perhaps the plants are just growing too quickly to absorb the available nutrients. That does happen. If that isn't the case, only you are in a position to most accurately diagnose what possibilities are the most likely as you live there and grow those plants. Kim