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Russian Sage the Monster!!

15 years ago

Greetings-

I have planted RS in front of my roses along a path. That was one of the worst ideas I've ever had. I want to remove all of them. Got any ideas on the best approach? Should I cut them to the ground first for easy access? And is there any herbicide that is strong enough to take these plants out??? I'm really dreading this task. :-(

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Comments (6)

rusty_blackhaw
15 years ago
If you can remove them now without disturbing the roses' roots too much, go ahead - first cutting the Russian sage (Perovskia) back near the ground for ease of removal (herbicide really shouldn't be necessary, and might cause problems for the nearby roses).

When you say it was a bad idea planting the Perovskia, was it because it got too tall or because of unwanted spread by runners (relatively few gardeners report a local invasiveness problem with P. atriplicifolia, but it appears possible in some environments)? I can also see where this plant and roses might be poor companions, because of all the extra fertilizer and water the roses want, but which would be bad for the Perovskia.
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juneroses Z9a Cntrl Fl
15 years ago
Make a little lemonade out of your lemons and don't trash ALL the RS branches. Even without the flowers, the blue/grey of the stalks make a simple but attractive arrangement in a vase. - June
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Hi Transplant, Where are you on the south end? If you're east, there's Tagawa Garden Center just north of Parker on Parker Road about 2 miles south of Arapahoe Road (on the west side). I just checked their website, and they seem to have a pretty good basic collection of perennials. I was surprised, though, that their perennial list only has the genus and not the species for most of their plants which makes it pretty hard to use if you're looking for something very specific (they do list variety names for many of them). The sedum's, for instance, if you don't know the variety name, you can't tell if it's an upright sedum or a groundcover one. When shopping in person, of course, this wouldn't be a problem---and I assume the tags with their plants show the species. They will definitely be the best thing on the south end of town and unless you're looking for some of the more unusual things, I think you'll be happy with what they have and the quality--they grow many of their own plants at their wholesale location in Brighton. However-----if you're on the southWEST side of town, I still recommend you head up to Timberline! Or if you're south-central, head straight up I25 to the 58th Avenue exit for Paulino's. Both will have a more complete selection than Tagawa's and both also grow much of their own stock on location. Paulino's, by the way, has their perennials at 40% off now, and I assume Timberline has theirs on sale too, but I don't know how much off. You should be able to find most of the things in the High Country catalog at Timberline or Paulino's. I have all the catalogs, but I don't buy mail order unless I absolutely have to. I want to be able to look at the plant--and roots--before I pay for it! Happy shopping, Skybird
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L. camara is the actual name. Only the commercially sold hybrids have made up names like 'Miss Huff', 'Dallas Red' or 'Carnival'. Wild Lantana horrida has orange/red flowers. Wild Lantana camara has pink/yellow flowers. They smell the same. Both are cold hardy. L. camara is hardy to zone 6. I am unsure about L. horrida but its probably that hardy as well. Both have thorns and produce lots of viable seeds. The common name for wild L. camara is 'Ham & Eggs'. Wild L. horrida is often called 'Bacon & Eggs' based on the different flower colors. There are six species indigenous to parts of the southern United States. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Most named hybrids are a mix of two South American species: L. camara & L. montevidensis. Lantana montevidensis is a trailing ground cover type with lavender flowers. Its tropical and not cold hardy at all which is why the hybrids are sold as annuals and don't survive winter. The hardier cultivars often have L. horrida (also called Lantana urticoides) in their lineage. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I now think the orange one in the photo I posted above is L. horrida. L. horrida is a Texas native but L. camara isn't. Its considered an invasive pest all over the south. The 'Ham & Eggs' that I have is wild L. camara, people have grown them here in Oklahoma for as long as I can remember because they are so hardy and will grow in our dry heat. They were commonly grown on farms as ornamental plants. They aren't invasive here because of cold winters but further south both types stay evergreen and bloom all year. I read that L. horrida varies in leaf size, form etc in that site I posted above. I ordered seeds from Native American Seed and those plants have much bigger leaves and the plant has a wilder looking habit than the orange one I like so much that I posted in the pictures above which was started from a cutting from a plant growing up the street, I was disappointed in the plants I grew from seed I ordered. The orange I started from the cutting up the street obviously produces viable seed, I have a few baby volunteers I noticed. Its leading me to believe its L. horrida (which definitely has thorns) except I think this one happens to be a slightly different type than the ones I grew from the seeds I ordered. None of the cultivars I have purchased have thorns. BTW, I realize now that the one which wintered over in my hell strip is a Miss Huff. I'd forgotten what I planted, it happens around here. http://npsot.org/wp/story/2011/1801/
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Russian sage, Salvia yangii (formerly Perovskia atriplicifolia), is really a woody subshrub, similar in habit to a lavender and any number of other species of salvia. Suckering stems come from a single central root system. As such, division is not impossible but not always easily done or readily accepted by the plant. I wouldn't try making any smaller divisions but plant whatever you have now with what appears to be any healthy roots as quickly as you can. Water only as necessary. And keep your fingers crossed! I have found that various plants loosely grouped as subshrubs tend to develop a very gnarly, woody base or interior over time that even routine annual pruning does not improve. IOW, they lose their looks with age :-) When that happens, it is easier to just dig, toss, and replace. These plants are not budget breakers and easily and inexpensively replaced.
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if you could shade it for a week.. that will also reduce stresses .. ive just put lawnchairs over things ... think outside the box ... if you give us a pic. maybe we could come up with some ideas ... you could probably also move them in fall ... and.. night temps are more important than day temps ... if its cool at night.. the plant has a good recovery period for what the day brought ... so watch this weeks forecast.. and shoot for a couple days with cool nights... if you do it poorly.. and lose the flowers.. plants tend to have one function in life.. reproduction ... so if you lose the flowers .. it will probably reflower.. just to try to set seed to reproduce.. even if its a sterile plant ... go figure on that ... i say go for it.. it technically is still spring ... ken
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laceyvail 6A, WV
15 years ago
Russian Sage is very easy to remove. A few suckers may come up in spring, but they'll be easy to remove too.
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prairiemoon2 z6b MA
15 years ago
I am surprised to hear that anyone would have a problem with Perovskia. I've grown it in my garden for over 8 years and I have only seen about 3 seedlings in all that time. It hasn't really outgrown it's space and seems to be a very well behaved perennial. I have moved it a few times and it moves quite well if you follow the usual recommendations. I would agree that it isn't always easy to fit it into a perennial bed design. It looks better to me in a casual fall display area. It also really needs full sun or it flops some. I just moved two of mine in late summer to try it in a new full sun location with grasses and gallardia, sedums, echinacea, fall mums and asters. I am looking forward to next year to see how it all works out.

pm2
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prairiegirlz5
15 years ago
garden lady~ You might just be one of the lucky ones :p! I have trouble getting RS started. My friend who lives on the Indiana border has sandier soil, and it self sows all over the place. I have found it hard to transplant into clay.

I do know how to kill it. Cut it back to the crown before winter, and it will rot, or come back so poorly it can easily be dug and discarded.

It sounds like you have well-drained soil. You might try blue oat grass (Helictotrichon sempervirens) in place of the RS, it stays in a neat clump with see-through plumes in summer.
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amato_s_comcast_net
12 years ago
I've been renovating a perennial bed in my new '80's home for the last 3 days. The top 6" of weeds were nothing compared to the yards and yards of inch thick woody roots of the RS. I'm finally finished cleaning up the bed, but left a few of the RS in place, energetically hacking back any outreaching roots. I will watch carefully for any future signs of new growth. This was a nightmare.
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