The reason I feel the temps are much warmer than you think, is because unheated basements are rarely cooler than 50* F because of the moderating effects of geothermal heat AND the heat gained from the first floor of the structure. Even if the basement is unheated & there was no heat to consider from the first floor, only geothermal heat, 60" soil temperatures in zone five are rarely below 40*, and are much warmer at 72" depths. This means the basement is radiating heat at around 45-50* from the entire floor in the dead of winter. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to be sure you're working with reliable info. ;o) Do you think that what you say about overwintering evergreens (I assume you mean coniferous) in total darkness at temps under 40F/5C would also apply to, say, heucheras? Yes, I do. I overwinter lots of evergreen plant material in a garage that for all intents you may as well call dark. I overwinter troughs full of alpines, shallow hypertufa containers with sedum & house leeks (sempervivum), some hardy cacti, ..... you get the idea. As long as the temperature is low enough to keep the plant quiescent, no light is required and any light available is of little value. What IS an issue is when the soil warms sufficiently to stimulate the plants to growth. THEN, light becomes an issue. Warm soil with no light means the plant will grow, but will be using stored energy, weakening the plant by producing foliage that is unlikely to survive exposure to the elements. In woody plants, it also produces etiolated growth with internodes long in contrast to normal growth, that unless removed will spoil the looks of the plant. Obviously, producing growth that needs to be removed before it has matured to the point of providing an energy return is an unnecessary misuse of the plant's energy. Al

Hallo, Yes I am indeed having problems articulating myself in this issue, I have no idea why, I spent the longest time editing it, to the point were I decided it had to be posted & done with.. About half of the plants have been sitting in our semishaded & windprotected gangway for the last 3 weeks already. Everything is in pots for the time being but I was concerned about having to prune off part of the roots , I just have no experience with that, don't even know what to look for.. The stuff still in the basement is things that are in the dry seemingly dead/dormant group... I have for example quite sizeable creeping phloxes, who are in appearance as they would be out side during winter, Those I am not too concerned with as they have a way of bouncing back from the dead, I am back down to the basement, Thank you So much for such prompt reply, I hope I naswered your question , if not, get back to me please. Kind regards Kerstin

Hi: If a plant is in a pot for the winter, it needs to be hardy to one zone colder--so you could keep zone 4 and colder things above ground. If you start to run out of time, you can look up the zones! If it's in a pot and up off the ground, I think it needs to be hardy 2 zones colder. I'm not sure what you mean by walk-in container, but if it's any kind of greenhouse or cold frame, it gives you one zone of protection, so you could leave your pots in there and they'll be good. I had pots in my hoophouse last winter, and I had seedlings both under coldframes and just on their own. The seedlings were WS babies that never got planted out until autumn. I lost a LOT of the seedlings that weren't in coldframes, but I think all those that were under coldframes survived. Last year was not the first one where I saw something like this happen, so I know that where I live, I should get my seedlings in the ground by Sept or early October, or get a cold frame over them. It cools down slowly in my area because I am by Lake Michigan, so it surprises me that the seedlings need so much time to settle in. The pots in my hoophouse not only survived, but warmed up much earlier and looked great. My hoophouse is fabric, and lets the rain in. Some people do sink pots into the ground. Like kcq said, be sure about drainage. If you have sandy soil, it's not a concern at all.

I'm also in Olympia and agree that most new world sages - the greggii/microphylla/x jamensis family, darcyi, chamaedryoides, etc. plus most Agastaches demand this treatment in the South Sound. I think it's the combination of 50 inches of rain, sudden and severe freezes without the opportunity to gradually harden off like last December, and the missing summer heat that they crave. Nurseries in California and the SW have exaggerated their hardiness but NC growers Tony Avant and Rich Dufresne have over-wintered many of these and have comparable or even lower winter lows. There are exceptions such as guaranitica from South America, which is the #1 choice of the hummers, and a few others. In addition, many European, Middle Eastern and Asian sages are hardy here. I confess to being a full-fledged salvia and fuchsia enthusiast. In the interest of promoting additional conversation now or later, here are most of the ones I'm growing now. These span the range of tropical to marginal to rock hardy. An asterisk indicates especially outstanding garden or container worthiness IMO. My x John Whittlesey, a cross of darcyi and microphylla, is absolutely incredible - I posted a pic of this one recently on the salvia forum. I planted it this year and do not expect it to survive in the ground. I have seeds of many of these. The 2 best autumn sages I have grown are Royal Bumble and Sierra San Antonio. Sorry about the long post, I couldn't resist: Salvia algeriensis Salvia apiana Salvia argentea* Salvia arizonica* Salvia azurea Salvia brevilabra Salvia canariensis var.Candidissima* Salvia canescens var.daghestanica* Salvia castanea Salvia chamaedryoides* SALVIA Chinensis 'Nanjinja' Salvia 'Christine Yeo' Salvia clevelandii Salvia coccinea'Lady in Red'* Salvia corrugata* Salvia cyanescens Salvia darcyi Salvia discolor Salvia dolichantha Salvia dorisiana* Salvia elegans 'Honey Melon'and Tangerine* (Pineapple sage blooms too late, these are the alternatives) Salvia farinacea Salvia flava var.megalantha Salvia forskaehlei Salvia glabrescens 'Shi Ho' Salvia guaranitica* Salvia heldreichiana Salvia hians Salvia jurisicii Salvia koyamae* Salvia lavanduliifolia* Salvia miltiorrhiza* Salvia miniata Salvia moorcroftiana Salvia nemorosa 'Caradonna' Salvia nubicola Salvia nutans Salvia officinalis 'Icterina' Salvia officinalis 'Tricolor' Salvia pachyphylla Salvia patens Salvia pomifera Salvia Purple Majesty* Salvia repens Salvia schlechteri Salvia sclarea Salvia sinaloensis* Salvia stolonifera Salvia taraxacifolia* Salvia transsylvanica* Salvia viscosa* Salvia 'Wendy's Wish'* Salvia x John Whittlesey*