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Northwestern Gardening

overwintering perennial salvia & agastache

12 years ago

How you would overwinter autumn sages, Salvia greggii & Agastache 'Acapulco Orange'? How about treating the pots like like fuchsia baskets kept on the dry side & dormant in unheated building?

OR

Would you go ahead & transplant now? Location is in the rain shadow off Bush Point on Whidbey Island. I don't know the exact measurements, but this places has much less rain than the Seattle area and certainly my east King County location.

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Comments (4)

buyorsell888
12 years ago
I had Salvia greggii live over in pots with no special treatment. Outside exposed to sun and rain.
reg_pnw7
12 years ago
I think if you treat them like a fuchsia basket you should be fine. I've been unsuccessful here in Olympia overwintering any salvias or agastaches in the ground. We get way more rain than Seattle but I think it's the cold that gets mine, they're in a raised bed with excellent drainage.
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Interesting to read linnea's evaluation of Salvia nemorosa cultivars. I also have used those cultivars extensively, but don't agree as to which is the best, or at least which has been (performed) best for me. I have found May Night big and bushy. If it is true that May Night has the longest bloom time, that doesn't increase it's appeal to me. I want a mixed perennial bed to change colour (and overall height) through the growing season. There's a lot of different perennials to perform and some are more spectacular (I'd say) than Salvia nemorosa. I do agree about Caradonna's bloom and height. So far, I find it a bit narrow for it's height, but on the other hand, it then doesn't take up so much lateral space in (fits better into) a bed of closely spaced mixed perennials. As previously said, Caradonna seems to survive with a fair bit of shading. Personally I prefer the colour of Marcus and East Friesland, but I'm sure it's all a matter of personal taste (and perception - latter re documented variability in the perception of purple and blue).
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Cameron, I'm interested to hear about your experience with Lazy S'S. I had placed a couple of orders with them a few years ago, and I was pleased with the results but not quite ecstatic. The plants I got were fine, but certainly not an extraordinary value. But I've been spending a lot of time ogling their website again lately, and am considering ordering again. So I'm eager to see how it goes for you. Do you know if they allow people to visit their nursery and browse? I have cousins going to UVA, so I go up to Charlottesville once in a while, and Barboursville isn't too far from there. I'd be interested in stopping by Lazy S'S some time and checking things out in-person if that's permissible. I suppose I ought to give them a call. But what I was really asking about was brick-and-mortar sources for perennials that you guys use within an hour or two from central North Carolina. I get tired of the full retail price at garden centers, limited selection at the big box stores, and the sometimes inconsistent quality at Pender's and Plantworks. I'd be interested in any recommendations that any of you have for that. torajima, I'm going back to Sanford again tomorrow (Friday, March 26), and I intend to do a bit more shopping at "Large Blossomers" while I'm down there. Let me know if there's anything specific you'd like to scout out for you. Little woodland perennials like trilliums, bloodroot, and dutchman's breeches are certainly not their specialty or the focus of the business, and I can't remember ever specifically seeing or buying any there. But I'll keep an eye out for them tomorrow. As for "native iris," what exactly do you mean? There are many species of the genus Iris that are native to the United States, some of which are commonly available garden plants while others are just about unheard of. I know that at least in season, they sell varieties of Iris fulva, Iris virginica, and the Louisiana hybrids, which are derived from native species. I don't think I've ever seen any of the cool smaller, dryland iris species, like Iris cristata and its cultivars, though. Again, if there's something specific you're interested, I'll be happy to look for it for you if you'd like. Thanks!
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Thanks Blue Heron! I thought about trying to dig and plant within the same week, which I guess I can just see how the soil is at the new house, was just afraid that the roots wouldn't have time to re-establish before the soil froze and it might stress them out (though maybe they will be just as stressed in burlap). I do think the ideal situation is to have them in their new homes vs wrapped somewhere or in a pot but guess it just depends on the winter this year. Unfortunately for us the timing of finding a house we didn't know we wanted is coinciding with winter coming--and I had planted many things this year expecting to be in this house for at least 5 years. I could also put them all together in the barn, keep forgetting that we may have a barn. That might work better if they need a cold period and I can't get them planted? Also wasn't sure if the 'dark' of the basement would kill the upper stems, so maybe barn is better anyway if they can get some light? I also have peonies that just arrived a few weeks ago that I put into pots for now, sad that I won't see flowers next year from them, can those overwinter directly outside or would barn be better for them as well?
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I've had success in similar situations by bringing in sand and raising the bed about 4 inches or so. Some bush sages that have been particularly hardy for me have been: S. microphylla San Carlos Festival, S. X Maraschino, S. greggii Wild Thing, S. Raspberry Delight, and for Agastaches Desert Sunrise and rupestris. The herbacious perennial sage Black & Blue just might work for you too. If you are in the Philadelphia area there is a new public garden just across the river at Palmyra Cove Nature Park. We just put in a 400 foot row of the plants you are asking about and added patches of others in various areas around the center. By next year we'll begin to have a clue about which of the many kinds are hardy there. Interested growers will be able to get cuttings to try for themselves.
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dave_olympia
12 years ago
I'm also in Olympia and agree that most new world sages - the greggii/microphylla/x jamensis family, darcyi, chamaedryoides, etc. plus most Agastaches demand this treatment in the South Sound. I think it's the combination of 50 inches of rain, sudden and severe freezes without the opportunity to gradually harden off like last December, and the missing summer heat that they crave. Nurseries in California and the SW have exaggerated their hardiness but NC growers Tony Avant and Rich Dufresne have over-wintered many of these and have comparable or even lower winter lows.

There are exceptions such as guaranitica from South America, which is the #1 choice of the hummers, and a few others. In addition, many European, Middle Eastern and Asian sages are hardy here.

I confess to being a full-fledged salvia and fuchsia enthusiast. In the interest of promoting additional conversation now or later, here are most of the ones I'm growing now. These span the range of tropical to marginal to rock hardy. An asterisk indicates especially outstanding garden or container worthiness IMO. My x John Whittlesey, a cross of darcyi and microphylla, is absolutely incredible - I posted a pic of this one recently on the salvia forum. I planted it this year and do not expect it to survive in the ground. I have seeds of many of these. The 2 best autumn sages I have grown are Royal Bumble and Sierra San Antonio. Sorry about the long post, I couldn't resist:
Salvia algeriensis
Salvia apiana
Salvia argentea*
Salvia arizonica*
Salvia azurea
Salvia brevilabra
Salvia canariensis var.Candidissima*
Salvia canescens var.daghestanica*
Salvia castanea
Salvia chamaedryoides*
SALVIA Chinensis 'Nanjinja'
Salvia 'Christine Yeo'
Salvia clevelandii
Salvia coccinea'Lady in Red'*
Salvia corrugata*
Salvia cyanescens
Salvia darcyi
Salvia discolor
Salvia dolichantha
Salvia dorisiana*
Salvia elegans 'Honey Melon'and Tangerine* (Pineapple sage blooms too late, these are the alternatives)
Salvia farinacea
Salvia flava var.megalantha
Salvia forskaehlei
Salvia glabrescens 'Shi Ho'
Salvia guaranitica*
Salvia heldreichiana
Salvia hians
Salvia jurisicii
Salvia koyamae*
Salvia lavanduliifolia*
Salvia miltiorrhiza*
Salvia miniata
Salvia moorcroftiana
Salvia nemorosa 'Caradonna'
Salvia nubicola
Salvia nutans
Salvia officinalis 'Icterina'
Salvia officinalis 'Tricolor'
Salvia pachyphylla
Salvia patens
Salvia pomifera
Salvia Purple Majesty*
Salvia repens
Salvia schlechteri
Salvia sclarea
Salvia sinaloensis*
Salvia stolonifera
Salvia taraxacifolia*
Salvia transsylvanica*
Salvia viscosa*
Salvia 'Wendy's Wish'*
Salvia x John Whittlesey*
barbe_wa
12 years ago
Hi Corrine, I lost my salvia guaranitica "Black & Blue" when I tried to overwinter it in the ground so this year I'm moving both it and my agastache aurantiaca "Apricot Sprite" into the cold frame for the winter. I hope they can survive there.

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