My Grusses (Pink & Orig) are pretty ugly. They're young so that may be part of it, and they haven't been fast growers. I'm hoping maturity will help. Since I'm not going to spray, I guess I'll just stay frustrated at least until next year.

CS isn't too bad. He's a funny grower. Started out as a good sized 3-gal plant, and it seems the canes have flattened out and are growing sideways in a spreading fashion. Lots of blooms. But he, too, looks unimpressive. Again, it's probably immaturity, growth happening where I can't see it, etc. I think I'll do another foliar feeding on all of them this weekend.

If you spray, let us know the results.

Sherry

Most Chinas (and note, I say MOST, because there's an exception to every rule) are slow-growing plants
under most circumstances.
They will not infrequently spread out sideways, as they prepare to create a twiggy structure.
You just have to give them time.

Your big disease problem is blackspot.
Our big disease problems are mildew and rust.

The red Chinas I have grown (several) have great resistance to mildew and rust, from the git-go.
They need no spraying here.

Jeri

What are your favorite red Chinas, Jeri?

Jeri, since you are reading this post, could you tell me why my 4 Martha Gonzalez roses have stopped blooming and have dropped leaves?

I have never sprayed them much, and we have had super rainfall (that could be a problem.) Also I carefully cut out all of the twiggy growth on the insides of them.

At the first of spring I aerated the soil (with my fork trowel) and added Mills Magic. Later I fertilized them.

Could they have balked because of the rain or because I cut out the twiggy growth? I left plenty. Also I have not deadheaded them, but they are a real pain to dead head, and I have never done that well, yet they have bloomed almost constantly.

Sammy

REdsox, sorry, but I hit submit too fast. I have 4 Pink Grusses, and 4 regular ones. We are in a huge black spot area, and they have dropped their leaves. They are growing them back, but are really sulking.

Cramoisi is doing fine even though a tree fell on part of it last winter. We had to raise the canes that were crushed and support them with rebar. It is healthy with leaves, but not blooming as usual. This could be due to the trauma and loss it suffered.

I think it will be fine in a no spray environment. I am going to try to give the Grusses good care so they do not have to be replaced.

Sammy

Sammy, I wish I could help, but I have not grown Martha Gonzalez.
One guess. HOW HOT HAS IT BEEN WHERE YOU ARE?
One of the neat things about Chinas is, when conditions get really, really hot, they will shut down.
By not blooming, they protect themselves, and conserve water and food, so's to bloom another day.
They did not evolve to go into winter dormancy, but they will go into a sort of summer dormancy.
I figure this is OK, because when it's really hot, I'm not out there enjoying them.

I grow "Single Red China," 'Louis Phillipe,' "Emmie Gray," 'White Pearl In Red Dragon's Mouth,'
'Cramoisi Superieur,' and as not-yet-mature plants, "Bengal Fire," and 'Sanguinea [Miss Lowe's]'.
I love these roses for my hot hillside, because they carry enough foliage to protect the canes.

For whatever reason, 'Old Blush' mildews some for me, as do "Single Pink China," and "The China From Adina."
I'm afraid "Single Cerise China" may also mildew here, but the jury is still out.
It may outgrow the problem.

Jeri

CS is similar in resistance to Mutabilis here. They get BS, defoliate, grow new set of leaves, defoliate, and it goes on and on. Still stay strong and bloom. So half the time they look great and half the time ugly and leafless.
Gruss is less resistant, it just defoliates here and it weakens plant significantly.
Olga

Thanks, Jeri,
I will just have to wait and see. It hasn't been hot here yet. We have had temps in the low 90's, but that is not hot for Oklahoma. Martha Gon. usually blooms most of the time. I wonder if the duluge of rain hasn't made her go into dormancy. But if I lose her, I will just plant a rose that is not as difficult to dead head -- 4 roses, that is.

Redsox, I hope I haven't hyjacked your thread, but just enhanced it a little.

Have you ever seen Archduke Charles? I am not sure what China will grow well in your zone, but that is a pretty one for us. Monsieur Tillier is a tea, I think, but it grows well for us too.

Sammy

{{gwi:290408}}

Here is what it looked like when I was spraying every 2 weeks. That is why I was considering NOT spraying, unless it would look even worse than that...maybe the heat was stressing it, I put it in part sun and it looks better.

Redsox, what kind of soil were they growing in when in your garden? Also where did you purchase the plants?

I am not sure that spray is your question, but maybe the soil is not good enough, it needs fertilizer or has too much fertilizer. Maybe the water in the bed was not draining fast enough.

Are there other plants with no problems in the bed?

Sammy

No bed, they are bands in a 1.66 gallon pot. I fertilized them only once or twice with a weakened liquid fertilizer. I stopped fertilizing them at all once they looked so bad. The soil is Moisture Control Potting Mix.

Redsox, that looks just like my Grusses. They're no longer in pots. My last 3 were planted last month. But that's what they look like. Some of it may be that they're growing "elsewhere". Also, when they're pushing out new shoots, the old leaf attached there quickly loses energy and yellows with BS. I had one in the ground go naked in early spring and then leaf out beautifully. I don't think you're really going to be able to tell what's what until it has put on a lot more growth and established itself better. I've been feeding mine monthly with various organic foods - switching off. I'm surmising that added growth means added capacity for strength & vigor, but growing uses up energy, too, so that must be replenished regularly or they'll suffer. It's a balance to keep up with the plant's needs. The chance of overdoing is less with organics (most organics anyway) because they only take up what they need. But I have heard that they are prone to BS regardless. The main thing now is to get them moving toward maturity, and I don't think that happens as well in pots. I advise patience. I know nothing about spraying - except that I did kill a tiny baby SdlM with fungicide once. Won't do that again.

Sherry

In my garden, my Pink Gruss roses (and my regular Gruss rose) occasionally defoliate about 50%, then begin re-foliating nicely without any help from me. They do that two or three times a year for me. It's not blackspot that I see on my Pink Grusses, just yellow leaf drop. I don't spray any of my plants. It just doesn't bother me enough to do that, and I have lots of perennials and annuals planted as companions to the roses, so it's not like the roses are out there half naked all by themselves.

By comparison, Cramoisi Superieur never defoliated at all in my garden. I love Pink Gruss, but nothing can compare to the superior disease-resistance of the china roses ... in my garden. They are in a class by themselves here. The tea roses are, of course, very close, and in some cases equal to them in health here.

Randy