astphard, I live just across the lake from you, and I'll say what everyone preached to me and I've learned the hard way. Teas, chinas, and noisettes. Just keep repeating that and you'll do fine lol. Teas and chinas are my favorites, but I have noisettes as well. The Austins stay full of blackspot and never look like those growing in other parts of the country. Lady Hillingdon is blackspot free in my garden, in fact all of the old teas are, same with chinas, and noisettes. I do have a few Austins, but I'm going to replace them with teas.

Thanks for the advice. Since so many forumers have raved about Molineux and Tamora (and their BS resistance) I was hoping they might prove exceptions to the Austin rule, but I'll definitely take your recommendations on it.

Are Bourbons and/or Hybrid Perpetuals similarly good as the teas, chinas, and noisettes? Also, do you spray mrskjun? I love the color on Lady Hillingdon but some folks from Dallas were talking about her BS and bare leaves which frightened me a bit.

Anne-Lise

Anne-Lise, I live across the river in Ms so I imagine our climates are very similar. Like before mentioned Tamora is extremely BS prone although I love it and do spray.
Teas, Chinas and Noisettes are great roses but I don't know of any that can are in the size you mention especially the noisettes.
Smaller bourbons like Souvenir de la Malmaison, Souvenir de St. Anne's, Madame Cornelissen, Capitaine Dyel de Graville, Madame Dore are great for our climate. The get a little powdery mildew early in the season but perform real well with constant bloom after the weather gets hot. The size remains rather short also.
Another great rose that isn't real large here is Gruss an Aachen (also it's sport Pink Gruss).
I hope this helps.

In New Orleans, there were several roses that grew, prospered and were never sprayed.
You can lust after Lady Banksia up in the trees, but you might check some of the Banksia hybrids that Robert Rippetoe is making out in Palm Springs for short and yellow and disease resistant.
Short and perfect for your use is the found rose (from New Orleans) Henrietta Jackson that Ashdown offers. Probably a lost Lawrenciana.
In our neighborhood in Algiers Point Maggie, the found Bourbon, survived and bloomed with no care at all for decades. My plant is from there from a neighbor who took a cutting with him to Dallas. Maggie is a must.
In our yard was one of the most aggressive cl. Cecile Brunner. You don't want that, unless you want to grow it as a garage roof. But it, too, was a proven survivor and I'd expect the short and repeat blooming version to do as well. Mine here continues to bloom without spray for the past two years.

You're going to have a problem with 'yellow' flowers. Most of them will pale out for nine months of the year. Then as the sun goes lower in the sky, you'll see the yellow and apricot you crave. So, somewhere you need Safrano. Just not in a short bed in front.

I don't recommend MOLINEUX or TAMORA for no spray gardens in hot/humid climates. Yes in places like California or the Pacific Northwest but definately not in bayou country. Clean foliage is obtainable with infrequent spraying (once every three weeks; anything less and both will spot up).

For yellow, no spray repeaters try:

ALISTER STELLA GRAY (Noisette)
CAREFREE SUNSHINE (Shrub)
DUCHESSE D'AUERSTADT (Noisette)
MORNING HAS BROKEN (Shrub)

For Tamora substitute with PERLE D'OR (Polyantha) or one of the apricot teas.

Arethusa, a china, might give you that apricot you need.

Thank you for posting this topic, astphard, I will be keeping an eye on the winners! Brandy

The rose I have in my yard which most closely meets your criteria is Sweet Vivien.

Wonderfully healthy in my no-spray garden.
A blooming machine, one flush right after another
Not much fragrance
The blooms are single large creamy white with pink picotee and beautiful golden yellow stamens which hold up well.
I have had it for about three years and is still about 3 X 3.

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I also agree with Madame Dore as a good candidate. She makes up in fragrance what Sweet Vivien lacks.
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Kathy

Ooh, I can sense the danger of too much enabling but I'm loving every second of it. Anntn6b, is there another name for Henrietta Jackson? I couldn't find it on Ashdown or HMF's website, and since it was found in New Orleans that has particular appeal. So far of the new recommendations I'm most tempted by Souvenir de la Malmaison, Gruss an Aachen, Perle d'Or, and Arethusa.

Does Lady Hillingdon also bleach in our mild, temperate sun of southern Louisiana? That's been one of my problems with the "yellow" teas. When I look at their pictures online (particularly from Countryside since they're so close) they look cream with a possible hint of color at best, which is not quite the look I'm going for.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing more comments & suggestions.

Anne-Lise

Anne-Lise, I am totally no spray. I like having the butterflies and the bees. The bourbons that I have do fine, but I've tried a couple of hybrid perpetuals and they simply declined until I removed them. Lot's of BS, and they just didn't thrive. I think I only have one rose that meets your size requirements and that is Mdm. Laurette Messimy. Even my "little" Perle d'Or is topping 6 ft. But she doesn't mind being lobbed back pretty good. Madame Joseph Schwartz and Mrs. Dudley Cross are some of my smaller ones.

Anne-Lise, I forgot about Perle d'Or. It is a wonderful rose and about as carefree as any rose in my garden even with the drought we had. Perle is definitely one of my favorites.
Arethusa is a good rose but the blooms on mine last hours, not days. A bud in the afternoon will be opened to a beautiful bloom the next morning but shriveled and ugly by noon. Not true with Perle d'Or.

Have you considered Lyda Rose? Pretty pink picotee that fades to white, pale pink reverse, lovely stamens. Good rebloom, moderate size, wonderfully fragrant... looks beautiful planted with OGR's. I've known people in Houston and coastal Alabama who have grown her totally without spray. They both told me Lyda Rose was the healthiest rose they had.

Pink Gruss an Aachen is great. Don't know how it does in your climate, but it sure is a wonderful little rose with big flowers. Some nurseries are confused about which one they have. They call it "Gruss an Aachen" when in reality they have the "Pink Gruss an Aachen". So if you decide to get it, make sure they're clear about which one they're selling. Chamblee's has it correct.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lyda Rose on Help-Me-Find

You said you were looking for:

Medium & light pink roses, as well as peachy-yellow roses.
Pink Gruss an Aachen is a soft pink.

Do well in a no-spray garden where there's lots of heat and humidity.
My five Pink Gruss an Aachen's do fine with no spray. That's not to say they will not occasionally loose some leaves, but usually nothing serious.

Lots of rebloom.
Pink Gruss an Aachen blooms all the time.

Fragrance.
Pink Gruss an Aachen has a nice fragrance to my nose. It's not overpoweringly strong, but it's really a quality scent.

Size of blooms.
Pink Gruss has nice medium-sized blooms (fairly large-sized in the cool months).

How long they last.
The blooms on Pink Gruss are not long lasting.

Can't get to be more than about 4.5' tall and wide.
Pink Gruss is one of the few old roses that stays that small for me. Even my Souvenir de la Malmaison wants to be bigger than that size after several years.

Randy

Thanks, Kathy for the pictures. I see you're just trying to make it harder for me :). Madame Dore certainly looks beautiful (as does Sweet Vivien, though I prefer fuller blooms).

Randy and Siriamrit, thanks for the clarification on Pink Gruss an Aachen vs the regular Gruss. I was wondering why some of the pictures on HMF were pretty close to white while others were medium pink (and didn't look as though they had faded).

Well, I think I'll have to knock Arethusa off the list because of the short bloom life as well as Enfant de France if the hybrid perpetuals give so many problems down here. Unfortunately, that leaves me with far more roses than I have space for!

Are there are any of these roses that do NOT like pruning? I've got some Duchers that get lobbed back all the time to keep their size under control and never seem to mind (the people who said 4'x4' need to have their heads examined; mine's now about 5'x7' and that's with pruning multiple times a year). If a great rose is willing to be kept in bounds, then I don't have any issues with doing it.

By the way, mrskjun, what color is your Mme Laurette Messimy? The pictures I've found either have it as a pale, lilac-y pink or it's a bloom with medium and light pink on each bloom, but appearing more medium pink than light. I realize that there's probably color fading in the heat, but I'd love to know what yours looks like since you're just across the lake.

Astphard, Gruss an Aachen's color is highly variable in response to weather conditions and who knows what other mysterious influences. There isn't a single photo on its HMF page that doesn't resemble blooms that my Gruss has produced at one time or another, and my plant has come up with a few looks that aren't represented there. It really is all over the place on color. Pink Gruss is also variable, but far less so. At least it's always some shade of pink. I have both and like Pink Gruss a little bit better, not because of bloom color but because it has fewer health problems. Both are good roses, though.

Caldwell Pink would meet your size, health, and rebloom requirements, I think. It's a Texas "found" rose, and tough as an old boot. All it lacks is fragrance.

Here is a link that might be useful: Caldwell Pink

ARE lists some smaller roses that might meet you needs. I agree with caldwell's pink - tough as nails in my no-spray rarely-watered garden here on the southeast coast. Kronprincessen Vktoria has kept within your size requirements thus far. Green Ice is a mini you might consider - another cast-iron plant. Abe Darby is the only Austin I have, and every year I think about taking him out cus the bush is awkwardly shaped and he gets BS, but then the flowers and scent convince me to let him stick around. Otherwise, stick with the formula - chinas and teas (noisettes are going to get rather big...).

Lady Hillidngdon definitely bleaches out into a not very nice cream off white except in early spring an late fall.

Anne-Lise, Laurette Messimy is one of my darker pinks, no lilac shades to it either. The one rose that I would recommend most for our area is Belindas Dream. Huge blooms, constant bloomer, clean thick foliage. I have two of these and plan to add some more as I free up some space. The only thing missing is fragrance, but I have plenty of others that are very fragrant, so I forgive her for this lol.

I don't know if you'd consider a modern rose at all but here in So. Calif. Julis Child is a wonder. I have however heard reports from more humid area that she blackspots. At any rate when we returned from being evacuated from the fire she was the only rose that still looked ridiculously healthy and was covered with blooms. They keep their color quite well and as they fade new buds are always coming along. However, you'll want to hear how this rose fares in your area.

Ingrid

Most all roses are going to bleach in the sun while others turn black. Most yellow roses will get blackspot.

Do you want Crepuscule? If not, you should
Duchesse de Brabant, Madame Joseph Schwartz, great ones.
Lady Hillingdon is a sweet rose. You need it. Lady Banks for trees would be great. Marie Pavie will make your garden smell great and by all means, some noisettes like Champney Pink Cluster for fragrance alone.

If I had a no-spray garden in your area, no Austins!

Thanks for all of your wonderful help and suggestions! I only I had more space in order to accomdate all of them (and perhaps a less humid climate for some others, like Julia Child).

I think I'm going to end up getting the following pink roses:

Souvenir de la Malmaison
Pink Gruss an Aachen
Le Vesuve

I was thinking of doing Perle d'Or and Lady Hillingdon as well, but I'm now thinking about putting 2 yellowish/apricot climbers in on small arbors (the size of a door). This gives me two new questions:

1) If the arbor is about 7' tall or so, do I get one climber to go from the base of one side and go over the top and grow down the other side? Or do I get two shorter climbers, one for either side?

2) Now I need some advice for what these climbers should be. Possibilities include:

Alister Stella Gray
Bouquet d'Or
Crepuscule
Duchesse d'Auerstadt
Cl. Lady Hillingdon
Madame Berard
Madame Jules Gravereaux
Reve d'Or
William Allen Richardson

These are all noisettes or tea-noisettes, so at least I'm hoping they should do okay here in New Orleans. But are there any of these that holds its color better in the heat than the others? Which ones bloom the most? Which would be best suited to an arbor? And which have the best/strongest fragrances?

And when I lived in Algiers Point, I tried to grow roses in front of the house, next to the sidewalk.
Any rose that looked like a 'real rose', ya know, da kind what's in da grocery store, would be stolen, often while still in bud.
Some of the great tea noisettes, sadly, fit that description.
The thieves who took all the blooms from my HTs and Don Juan would leave The Fairy and single roses alone. Except for the A....ole who took an entire cane of one of them that had a great spray at the end.
For the above reasons, I'd stick with small blooms. Some folks don't think they're roses.
Sad reasoning, but I'd hate to see Duchesse or WAR with broken canes where folks tried to take off long stems.

I think the original poster asked for roses of smaller statue. I doubt that Duchesse de Brabant and some others mentioned above meet that restriction. SDLM would. Devoninesis would.
Most teas get enormous even in zone 8.

Ann, a question for you. Did your Maggie bloomed even in this year's drought? Mine is young so that could be part of the answer, but she showed a few nice blooms in spring and nothing, nada blooms since. KPV, SDLM kept blooming. Even the HP Baron Giraud produced 2-3 puny blooms in early September but Maggie produced none.
Is it just lack of rain, water or I better check what's wrong with this one?

Ceterum, Maggie bloomed nonstop her first year (from a fall planting). Almost immediately put up canes to 6 ft. and is easily 4 ft. wide already-- a BIG girl. My first year plant of Morning Has Broken has arching canes to 5 ft. tall and about 6 ft. wide-- MUCH bigger than expected (spring planting). To keep it from sprawling thru the deck rails I put a trelllis hehind her. She has been too busy growing to bloom the first year so the suspense is killing me! Of the noisettes, Alister Stella would be a good choice for the arbor-- I think Reve d'Or would be too big. Another enthusiastic vote for Perle d'Or & Caldwell Pink.

How wide (inches) are the open blooms of Caldwell Pink?

I was removing Johnson Grass and Creeping Charlies from my Maggies today and both were loaded with blooms.
But what surprised me was than neither had put up new canes this year (not that I fault them, I'm happy they're still alive) and the blooms are all on older (at least year old) laterals on older canes.
There were also blooms midsummer on both. I did have a momentary rush when I thought that Maggie had set open pollinated hips, but it was not to be...it was another rose infringing on Maggie's space.

Astphard, I think anntn's recommendation of (Maggie( is super. I read that Maggie grows well all over New Orleans; you have probably seen her! Read the article posted at HelpMeFind, all about roses that do well in FL, a climate similar to yours. There is a list of recommendations at the end.

Here is a link that might be useful: HelpMeFind.com article

Caldwell Pink's blooms are a couple of inches wide, on average, and borne in clusters of up to a dozen or so.

I second the recommendation of Alister Stella Gray for the 7' arbor. Mine is freestanding but I think it could be trained fairly easily. I'm not sure, but I think I'd put one on either side, as it doesn't throw out the really long climbing canes of the monster sized tea noisettes. At least mine hasn't yet, and it's been in the ground for three years. My Crepuscule would have eaten a support of that size for breakfast in season one.

I seriously doubt that you would need two Crepuscules to frame the door on both sides

Here are some photos of this rose today after 3 days of glorious rain

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If you are using small arbors, my most delicate climbers,(that wouldn't eat a house or a tree), are Jeanne La Joie, Sombrieul, Climbing Pinkie, and Buff Beauty. I also recommend Maggie which I grow as a climber, beautiful blooms and wonderful fragrance.

Maggie will need to be sprayed in coastal Louisiana--mine did. Ditto, Carefree Sunshine.

They may go quite a while without blackspot but when it finally arrives, hmmm, not pretty and not a situation you want on display at curbside.

Caldwell Pink is ideal for the situation you're describing. IMHO, it's simply a very pretty rose in bloom. The pink also works well mixed in with any dark green tropicals you might want to blend alongside.

MichaelAT

Buff beauty here in zone 8 is definitely a house eater.

Wow, thanks for all of the messages. I'm wondering how long it will take any of these climbers to cover the arbor. As I've been researching the various climbers here on the forums most report them taking about 3-4 years before they actually grow and start doing the arbors, pergolas, etc, that they planted them to cover. But rosyone is talking about Crepuscule doing the coverage in a year. Since New Orleans has such a long growing season can I expect the pace to be accelerated a lot or should I still expect climbers to need several years before really getting going?

Just as a frame of reference, my Duchers easily went 5'x5' in their first year from about a foot-big plant from ARE. My Lamarque roses have been in the ground only 7-8 months and have a couple of long canes but haven't been throwing out much in the way of laterals or filling anything in (it's on a lattice-style fence). And I have some Ruby Vigorosas (yes, modern roses) that have would be about the size of the Ducher after 1 year if I let them get that big.

Astphard, to clarify, I'm afraid your door sized arbors will prove to be too small for Crepuscule in the long run unless you're ruthless with your pruners. It took off like a rocket in my north Louisiana garden and was already the largest rose I had by the end of its first year. But it's a LOT larger now. My growing season is long but not as long as yours. It looks like ceterum's Crepuscule is on a good sized pergola where it had room to expand as it matured. I suspect it took more than a year to achieve decent coverage of that structure.

Ducher got off to a very vigorous start here too, as many of my roses have - especially those best adapted to the South. It's common for them to exceed the published size estimates when they reach maturity too. Teas, chinas, and noisettes really like my climate and I think they may love yours even more.

Just wanted to reiterate my question about how long I can expect it to take for a climber to cover a door-sized arbor. And please distinguish between the mannerly climbers and the house-eating climbers.

Also, I realize I forgot to address anntnb's concerns about people stealing my roses. I appreciate the concern and realize that in many parts of the city that could be a problem (though it's a shame) but several people in my City Park neighborhood have roses out front right by the sidewalk and seem to be able to keep their luscious, big blooms without damage. (People are enabling me, if I'm online or off!) Plus I'm on a dead end. So in this part of town I think I'll risk it. I'll keep you updated though on how things go when they start throwing out gorgeous blooms.

My street was one of the main thoroughfares from the ferry and we'd hear cars stop at night and take blooms. (Most of them brought their own scissors.) Dead end streets are
much better.
One other problem we had was water lines and old drains. Some houses apparently drained their gutters into the (storm) sewers. Our house had replaced an earlier Victorian and there were drains into the sewer that didn't match the current house. Roots can grow around drains, but it slows them.
And if the city digs up, heavens help you.
Also do you have the granite curbstones? If so, you'll find massive boulders under them supporting them. Without the boulders, the granite would sink into the soil.

Anne-Lise, I live on the northshore as well and second the choice of Belinda's Dream. I have three bushes altogether and am looking to purchase two more. The blooms are consistent for me and great for bringing inside. I bought some from a nursery that got them from Live Oak Gardens in New Iberia. They were 3 gallons and monsters. Le Vesuve might be risky where you want to place it. Mine is in a shadier spot and huge and the thorns are incredible, but the blooms are as well. Just planted Maggie and Crepuscule over a year and am looking forward to next spring's blooms. You have had some great input.
Clint

Clint and mrskjun, how big are your Belinda's Dream? And how big is your Le Vesuve? As I'm still wavering on whether or not to get climbers for arbors or just getting rose bushes I haven't put my order in yet, but time's running short. And you're absolutely right, Clint. I've had great input from others on this thread. Thanks everybody!

I live in NE LA and don't spray for BS but I have sprayed rarely for PM and thrips. I just planted Maggie (been in a lg. pot since spring) and she is growing and blooming nicely. I love her so far. You know she was "found" in Mangham, about 45 mi. south of Monroe.I have her growing near a 4 ft. picket fence and plan on her rambling on it. I also have Belinda. Her fall display is better than her spring b/c of thrips and balling.She is very healthy otherwise. I have Alistair and Marechal and they are at 12-15 ft. in one year here.Definitely big guys! Very healthy foliage but HUGE!I think teas, Chinas and Noisettes are the way to go. I have replaced most of my Austins with them. Polyanthas do well too. I love the 2 Marie sisters. I am going to get Caldwell Pink soon. Posters have been raving about her, plus she is one of the Earthkind selections I believe. Good luck, Buff

Crepuscule is almost 100% clean for me where the Austins DO blackspot. Crepuscule has taken over my deck and blooms well.

Carla

Anne-Lise, my biggest Belinda's Dream stands 5ft. with about a 6ft width. The other two are about 4ft. by 5ft. My Le Vesuve is big, over 6 ft and sprawling at least that distance. It is planted in a bed of indigo and only part sun, but seems to do well enough. Is beautiful but deadly. See pics.
Clint
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Okay, okay, you've convinced me! I'm getting Belinda's Dream instead of Le Vesuve. Le Vesuve's thorns look worse than the Kordes roses I have in my current front beds, and that's saying something.

Still trying to decide what climbers I should get. I think I've narrowed it down to:

Bouquet d'Or
cl. Lady Hillingdon
Mme Jules Gravereaux
Reve d'Or
William Allen Richardson

Which of these do (or do not) lose their petals cleanly? Deadheading arbors is not exactly something I'm looking forward to, and having dirty tissue balls in front of the house is not what I'd call attractive either. And are any of these BS or PM magnets (remember, a no-spray garden).

Alister Stella Gray is tempting based on everyone else's wonderful recommendations, but since all the other climbers I'd put up are in the apricot zone, she'd be the only yellowish-white one. So we'll see.

Thanks for all of your help!

Anne-Lise

Isn't Reve d'Or the one that balls terribly in humid weather?
Or, do I mix it up with Solieil d'Or?
Try to clarify this issue before you decide - a rose with a lot of brown rotted bloom would not be very attractive as a door frame. I cannot recall which one is the notorious baller but do avoid that one.

Well, yesterday I went to a rose nursery and by their calculations I can fit more roses in my bed by staggering the plantings into two rows. Plus, I fell in love with a few. So I have bought and/or ordered the following:

-Duchesse de Brabant (I stopped my car when I saw one while driving and found out what it was, and it was still calling my name when I found it at the nursery; I'll just have to be diligent about keeping her size checked)
-Monsieur Tillier
-Buff Beauty
-Cl. Cramoisi Superieur
-Souvenir de la Malmaison
-Pink Gruss an Aachen
-Belinda's Dream
-free rooted rose cuttings of Crepuscule

I've put a last-minute request to RU to add Rosette Delizy to my order though I don't know yet if they'll be able to get it to me or not.

And I just saw on a different thread that Vintage is offering the apricot climber Mme Jules Gravereaux so that might be added in too.

Ah, the joys of enabling! More colors, and roses then I anticipated! But I'm sure I'll be over the moon when they start blooming...

And by the way, I believe Soleil d'Or is the notorious baller.

I am glad to see you chose SdlM, Pink Gruss, & Duchesse de Brabant. They are really beautiful roses. The others you chose are great too, but those three are really special.

Randy

Anne-Lise,
I have almost all on your list and think they will all do well for you. I'm curious, which rose nursery did you go to in our area? Here is a picture of Monsieur Tiller. I am moving it to a large bed to give him more room.
Clint
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Anne-Lise you scored great. All these roses are quite exceptionally good roses. All of these the only one I do not grow is Mons. Tillier - I juts do not have the space for it.

Since RU didn't have Rosette Delizy I decided to get another one locally. And to answer your question Clint, I went to two local-ish nurseries (plus one mail order).

From Banting's on the westbank I got Belinda's Dream and Old Blush (instead of Rosette Delizy).

I went to Antique Rose Gardens in St. Martinville where I got Duchesse de Brabant, Buff Beauty, cl. Cramoisi Superieur, Monsieur Tillier, and the Crepuscule rooted cuttings.

From RU I got Pink Gruss an Aachen and Souvenir de la Malmaison.

Since I don't have much of any place to put any roses that grow too big, I'll definitely be hoping, praying, and pruning to keep them within bounds. And I'm holding off on the apricot climber Mme Jules Gravereaux until I see how crowded my space is. But it should be fun.

Thanks everybody for all of your help. I finally get to grow these roses that everyone always talks about. Yippee!

Old Blush can be planted as a specimen separately in the yard--just like a flowering shrub. It gets perfectly enormous! The other biggie on your list in Monsieur Tillier. Enjoy your new roses, you got some real goodies!