Cramoisi Superior is Superior!

12 years ago

I have two plants of this rose (old old cherry red china) which have been growing in my garden for who knows how many decades. I just wanted to point out how "hardy" they are - not cold hardy, of course, but that is irrelevant here. I am a lazy gardener, and many of my roses are ignored for a long time between any care.

The CS about which I am speaking was growing in partial shade in the front of the garden. Then one day a boring yellow standard rose which was about 3 feet away from it died, and the next year up came rootstock from where we had dug out the standard, which miraculously turned out to be de la Grifferie. It sent up 10 foot canes, has large leaves, & basically blanketed the CS. It took 3 years before the de la Grifferie bloomed, but I left it as it was obviously NOT Dr. Huey, and I was curious. When the first very double, dark pink, and fabulously fragrant roses opened, I was hooked. So, I let it grow and spread for years without thinking much about it.

Last week my DH and I were working in that part of the garden, mostly pulling up valerian (Jupiter's Beard) seedlings which were trying to take over. Upon close examination, I realized that I now had two large bushes of de la Grifferie, not one, and that the old CS was hardly visible. So, my DH dug one of the CS up, we pruned the other one, and low and behold the old CS was still there. It had grown up more, probably desperate to get some light, and 90% of its canes were all tilted over to one side at a 45 degree angle, trying to get out from under the de la Grifferie. I worked with it for 45 minutes, and was able to untangle several of the main canes from one and other (NOT easy with a china!), and spread it out in a fan shape, and tied it to the (providential) fence behind it.

A few months ago we took down a huge gigantic eugenie tree that was shading that part of the garden, so it is getting more light (and even maybe 4 hours of actual sun) now. I am looking forward to what it will do next - even in shade and smushed by the other rose, it still had blooms on it! I have decided that for our climate china roses are almost perfect. The other CS I have grows intermingled with Safrano, and as both of them put out small, twiggy canes, they are co-existing just fine. The pale buff yellow blooms and the cherry red blooms go great with each other, and they both bloom starting in Feb/March, and are still going strong! Just wanted to point out that some of our oldest roses are still the best!

Jackie

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Comments (13)

jardineratx
12 years ago
I'm so glad to hear someone singing CS's praises. It is the only rose of which I have THREE! I don't deadhead, prune, or spray this rose and it continues to have healthy foliage and beautiful blooms pretty much year round. When it comes to maintenance-free, Cramoisi Superior is No. 1 in my garden (I have more than 80 varieties).
Molly
jerijen
12 years ago
Those old red Chinas (IMHO) are Da Bomb!
In one place in our garden, three roses in a row croaked, because the sun on a neighboring retaining wall cooked them.
We gave it one more try, and planted Louis Phillipe there. He exploded into growth and bloom, has almost obscured the offending wall, has no disease, and is never out of bloom. I hope the little Cl. Cramoisi Sup we've got coming up works as well.
And I am completely in love with "Elisabeth's China" -- a "Legacy Rose" from the Sacramento City Cemetery. Her rich fruity fragrance is a wonderful surprise.

Jeri
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Thank you all. It is interesting, as Melissa says above, that some "bush" shaped roses, if they are touching something to climb on, will start climbing. However, my rose above is at least 50 years old, and the tree is at least 80-90, so it took the rose a while to get the idea! Right now the entire tree is covered with pale pink blossoms, and the red roses still stand out. Jackie
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sammy zone 7 Tulsa
12 years ago
I am so glad that you are writing about Cramoisi Superieur. It is one of my favorite roses - I have three of them, and one is the anchor in my front bed.

We have discussed CS and Louis Phillipe in the past, and I still wonder of the best of the two in one garden is the same rose, but with different names.

In my garde the CS are far superior, but in other gardens people love Louis. I guess there is no way to tell which is which.

Jackie, thanks for sharing your story about cramoisi.

Sammy
jerijen
12 years ago
In my garden, LP grows more strongly than C.S., but you know, that could be just individual plants, or some other quirk of micro-climate. The little Cl. C.S. we brought from the Sacramento City Cemetery in April is growing like mad.

For mild climate gardens, I just can't imagine any roses could be better.

Jeri
jacqueline9CA
Original Author
12 years ago
Glad to hear that others agree with me re the old chinas for warm weather gardens. I think I will have to investigate and see if I need more - the fact that they bloom in partial sun is a big plus in my garden.

Roses that were hybridized in China hundreds or even perhaps thousands of years ago make the term OGR seem inadequate, somehow. Of course, most of them were re-named by their Western "discoverers" - frequently after themselves, which seems so very full of hubris, doesn't it? Especially as some of them were "discovered" in private gardens or in nurseries! it would be more fun if they had retained names like White Pearl in Red Dragon's Mouth!

Jackie
clanross
12 years ago
C. S. is at least one of and likely my favorite of all my roses. It was the only one on my old house property when we came here, and I fell in love with it. I now have more than 40 plants, and it is still great. :)
aimeekitty
12 years ago
You guys have me reevaluating my opinions of Louis Phillipe and CS. :) I've only seen them at Descanso, sadly.
User
12 years ago
I have a hard time telling all those red chinas apart. :-(
luxrosa
12 years ago
I love your story!
and de la Griff.
Lux.
mudbird
12 years ago
Jeri - I don't know if you remember me from earlier years, but my garden is just south of you in LA (inland from Venice Beach), and I generally find your experience (much greater than mine) echoes my own. Here, too, Louis Phillipe seems happier than Cramoisi S. Actually, when we first moved to Mar Vista 15 years ago, the summers were hotter and my garden sunnier, so CS did very well! But, with the increasing cool & grey summers, CS started to mildew reguarly, and I gave up on the bush and sadly removed it. I also grew a CS climber and it was spectacular for about 6 years, then it suddenly declined (I think something attacked the roots) and it couldn't be saved. I planted a 2nd CS bush, but the past couple of summers have been so cool that it almost seems as tho consistent summer weather starts in late August. I've planted a number of Chinas roses the past couple years, but have moved them all to the hottest sunniest spots or they sulk. Since CS is probably my favorite red rose, it's now claiming the hottest, sunniest & least windy spot in the garden -- it looks like it may be growing out of its sulky ways.
sammy zone 7 Tulsa
12 years ago
It is nice to realize that a rose will grow well in Oklahoma and in California. All of my roses have struggled this past summer with our record breaking heat, but my CS's are looking good.

Sammy
buffington22
12 years ago
I love CS too! I have a climber and bush and both are thriving. I'm thinking of getting more b/c of the major thrip problem in spring with my pale roses. CS gets better every year. I prefer her to LP in my garden. I also like Archduke Charles which is a work horse here.
User
12 years ago
I guess I am the only zone pusher with CS in my garden. So far, it has survived all winters well (famous last words?)

Cramoisi Superior is Superior!

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