'shade' means little ... on words alone

bright shade.. cave ... very bright.. etc ...

its hard to be definitive.. w/o being able to understand such ...

i have some full sun plants.. in near all day shade.. from 60 foot trees.. but there is clear blue sky above.. apparently.. they get enough light..

that said.. the bigger the flower.. usually means.. the more energy they need.. and as light declines.. its ability to make a lot of large flowers starts to falter..

i guess when it all boils down.. you are just going to have to try things..

also... for most of the growing season.. 4 to 9 or 10 pm.. is a heck of a lot of sun ... presuming that is what you meant ... when 8 hours is usually considered full sun ...

there isnt really much that will out and out die ... its all about vigor and performance.. and if something struggles.. you move it to more light ... if you have it ...

i am sure our friends will come up with many specific suggestions ...

and also keep in mind that a lot of the 'shade' plants are just shade tolerant ... and can take a lot of sun.. usually based on how well they are watered.. its all about whether the plant has enough water.. to offset increased sun.. e.g. hosta... its when they transpire more water than they are able to process .... that they start getting real ugly ...

ken

4 PM sun is pretty weak truthfully. Any shade plant should do fine.

In my shade garden (and yes, it does get later afternoon sun, although I wouldn't term it a "blast"), things that are thriving are:

hosta
heuchera
brunnera
polemonium
hakonechloa macra

In my other bed, which gets filtered sunlight
monarda
echinacea
lobelia
astilbe
columbine

Where are you in NJ? I'm in Morris county. You're welcome to come and take a look to get some ideas. I'll also be dividing plants in a coupls of weeks and giving stuff away (mostly sun perennials.)

I have a garden that is in similar situation: it is under a locust tree so it is in shade until 3 pm, then got western sun until sunset. I have experimented with sun and shade perennials for the last few years. It is tough. Most of sun perennials do not thrive or bloom as they should. Most of shade plants got burned and need frequent watering. Here are a few things that worked for me:

Sun perennials:

Sedum Autumn Joy
Coreosis (Zegreb)
Blue ballon flower
Daylilly Purple d'oro (really nice color and long bloom)
Daylilly stella d'oro

Shade plants:
Hosta June (color is more bright late in the summer)
Hosta Stained Glass
Hosta Sun Power
Heuchera Obsidian (this one is the best. does not loose its deep purple color. does not mind being neglected during hot days w/o watering)
Heuchera Cajun Fire (also ok, does get a little burned but overall ok)
Heuchera Georgia Peach

Here is a picture in late August after a hot long summer with record heat and drought.

Daylilly Purple d'oro, Hosta Sun Power, Heuchera Obsidian and Hydrangea Endless Summer (needs lot of water)
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Hosta June, Heuchera Georgia Peach, Hosta Stain Glass. Sedum Autumn Joy and Coreosis (Zegreb)in the background
{{gwi:263648}}

Vivian

viv's last picture.. with that big white garage door.. shows what i mean.. reflected light

though there is a lot of shade.. it is still very bright ...

one way i explain it.. is that my glasses darken in sun .. and if i am in the shade.. and they do not lighten.. that means there it is very bright under there ....

though direct light is the best.. all ambient light counts for something ....

the sedum is an absolute full sun plant ... and yet she grows it well.. goodly???.. in what some might call.. shade ...

if she has a problem.. in the future.. it might be that the locust is not a prime tree to garden under.. but as of now.. she is proving that theory wrong ...

ken

I would have to disagree that 4PM sun is weak, at least as a blanket statement. I've got an almost full shade (fairly bright shade) bed that gets the sun from about 4 to 6 PM and it is viciously hot there in high summer. It is indeed a "blast" of sun and heat. And the heat causes it to dry out, so that adds to the problem. I'm still experimenting with what plants to put there.

Dee

Ken, I always enjoyed reading your post and advice on various forums. You are absoluely correct in that Locust tree is not ideal for planting under. The roots are very strong and shallow. I have to raise the bed to be able to plant. Still some of the plants close to the tree may not get as big as they should due to the roots. Also the reason I have the wide space between the heuchera and hostas is becuase that is where the roots are so big and impossible to plant.

Sedum is one tough plant, shade or sun. However, I did notice that the ones in the fun sun garden, the blooms stay green for a longer time. They just started to show a little pinkish color, while the ones under the tree already have the full autumn color. All sedums are divided from that one plant initially planted under the Locust tree.

I also have 2 Salvia May Nights under the tree. They bloom beautifully in May but never have the 2nd bloom due to the lack of sufficient sun after the tree is fully leafed.

Vivian

Thanks for the input. 4 p.m. is the hottest time of the day here in the summer, so it's a blast of sun and heat. It's otherwise a pretty dark garden. I have a couple of sedums where the sun hits just a bit earlier and they are in bloom, altho they are definitely reaching forward towards the light.

This garden has the street on the right--woods on the other side of the street. Straight back, you might be able to see a very steep hill. This is my southern (non) exposure. To the left is woods again. There are two large trees behind the photographer on an otherwise open lawn (my northern exposure). So, all in all, it's pretty dark. This is an older picture, so maybe my troubles this year have to do more with drought than light.

The hydrangeas get a decent amount of light. The hakone grass in the back is pretty much in the dark all day---what a great plant--I should just put it everywhere, I guess!