I am not Ann, but I have many teas and chinas. I had read to prune and not to prune after the freeze, and I did not prune. This meant that I ran the risk of the roses getting more canker, but also I gave them a greater chance of growing more basal shoots. At least that is what I think I did. I pruned my Louis Phillipe early last year, and they still have not recovered. They are struggling, and I just may have to replace them.

My four Martha Gonzalez were looking pretty good, so I pruned out all of the weak stems about a month ago, and they are still sulking. I wish I had only pruned out the dead stuff, and left the struggling canes until next year. That is what I did with Cramoisi Superieur and Monsier Tillier, and do not regret it.

Jeri (I think it was Jeri) said that the energy in the teas and chinas is in the canes rather than in the roots. Therefore we must be very careful when we decide to prune them, and if we prune as hard as we do the hybrid teas, we may seriously damage the rose.

Sammy

I pruned only the dead canes...I had remembered those comments.

Robert

I also lost no teas, no chinas, no noisettes. I did loose HTs.
The stalwart Cl Old Blush was the strongest rose, it was blooming when the freeze hit, it made small, not freeze dried but color correct blooms in the weeks after the freeze. It's rebudded for rebloom. Other Chinas are doing the scattered bloom thing, although Pink Pet appears to have been on vacation during the freeze and came back with a bloom rush that was awesome albeit brief. Mutabilis has done the blooms and reset on bud replacement.
There was fairly significant loss of stems and a few canes also are gone. With the teas, I get the feeling that the blooms are the sum of the rose's parts and those that had more damage will need more time to replace the stems first and then blooms will come in large numbers again.
The noisettes are different and because we have R. moschatas growing near them, the difference is because of the moschata in them. The moschatas were damaged. The younger moschatas were damaged more than the older onoe. But all bounced back well and all bloomed in May, just less bloom than ususal. And right now, the moschatas and their descendents are the spots of color in the gardens. Moschatas make their new blooms near the base of the older sprays. And they held on to their more tender growth better. We saw the Champney's Pink bed at Biltmore and everything in it was blackened where it had emerged; but the really impressive part was (where other blackened growth was killed and the black had moved down the canes below the soil line) with Champney's Pink there, slightly buried leaf axils within a week were sprouting new stems that would be canes. This is a resistance to the creeping black crud that I haven't seen elsewhere.
The resistance to 'black' death is not that present in the teas and chinas; for them younger stems seem to die back to older growth when death happens out on them. That's what hit my chinas and teas and not my noisettes.

"Hybrid Vigor," Ann?????

Jeri

Dumb question from one who's never seen it....

What's the difference in appearance between the creeping black crud and serious but simple freeze damage?

I ask because I see tender plants die each time we have a hard freeze, and some turn black and shrivel up.

Carol, you picture is so beautiful.

Sammy

"the creeping black crud and serious but simple freeze damage"
I hope Missy will see this and chime in with her creeping crud experiences from several years ago.
The creeping black crud moves fast enough to be noticed. Even in cold weather, when fungi are a lot less active/agressive, when the cgc attacks a rose cane or stem I would see a tip dieing, and two days later, the line of death would be three or four inches farther down the stem.
Simple freeze damage kills the tips quickly. Cells are shattered all along the stem, and the things are dead, fast. On tea roses, where the initial growth tips have been abandoned when the new growths take off as what I call jack legs from underneath, the dead initial growth tips are usually gray; the late fall growth jack legs turn black fast, all up and down their five or six scrawny inches, where the new, more seasoned/hardened stems from earlier in the season keep on being green.
IF that die back were to be cbc, the six inch scrawny black stem's blackness would extend down into year old woody tissues. And keep going.
Right now, with temps in the 90s, I'm seeing some HT canes that now have black streaks going from cut ends downward up to twelve inches...not the whole cane, maybe just one side. And the streaks are agressive. Some of this is happening appearing to begin on cut surfaces that were clean and may not have been cut back this spring.
I cannot find anything in the plant pathology literature about saprophytic fungi being agressive colonizers of new cells; and when analyses are done, all they go for is "you have the following fungi".
But I do know with creeping black crud, if I don't remove it, the rose is a goner.

thanks for the responses...I've been hesitant about cutting back too much on the Teas (perhaps not even this creeping black crud)...I'll look at the Teas more today and see whether any black crudded canes need to be removed. Otherwise, these young roses seem (finally) to be taking off like they did last year.

Robert

Here's an old ARS article by a professor of plant pathology that evaluates an earlier harsh spring freeze and the damage it inflicted.

Here is a link that might be useful: Evaluation of traits that affect hardiness

Thanks for the link, Cass. A couple of bits from there. New plants from fall planting were damaged worse than new plants from spring planting because they grew out faster. And as you would expect, roses that were fertilized in early spring were damaged worse that roses that were not fertilized.

Vintage has Sierra Glow, an old Armstrong HT praised in the article. They are the only vendor and HMF has little information, but here are the pics.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sierra Glow