My Gaillardia is blooming away right now....

Phlox 'David' is white, and blooming now, also Rudbeckia triloba, Platycodon (blue, white, or pink) and Achillea 'The Pearl'. Eupatorium 'Chocolate' has yet to bloom, ditto Montauk Daisy (white), Sedum 'Autumn Joy' still light green, S. 'Matrona' foliage burgundy tinged.

How about some Lobelia? Although some of my L. cardinalis is past its peak (but still blooming), the ones the rabbits "cut back" earlier are just getting started. L. siphilitica is just reaching peak now. Also, you might like Helenium, if the area gets enough sun.

-Caroline

I second the Lobelia idea. You could also try Bishop of Llandaff Dahlias. They are a deep blue/red (look great with purple) and bloom late summer to frost. The nearly black foliage is an asset all season. You would have to lift and store the tubers each fall, but otherwise, it's an easy plant to grow.
Alot of grasses look wonderful this time of year: my favorite is Muhly (Muhlenbergia) grass with its cloud-like rosy pink blooms. Don't forget mums and asters too.

Rudbeckia and turtles head are a good choice.
Both are sturdy plants and will hold back the monarda.
Turtles head will say part shade but mine are in the sun and do fine. Just give them enough water.

Have you tried cutting back the front half of the monarda to delay bloom. On big clumps if you cut some back and leave the rest alone, you can extend the bloom season quite a bit.

Also you can cut the monarda back immediately after bloom and it will regenerate with fresh non-mildewed green which will last the rest of the season.

As for red plants, there simply aren't a lot of good late reds. There are some late red daylilies, but it is often iffy as to what "late" really is in a specific garden. My cardinal lobelia is in bloom now, in a semi-shady spot in the "wet" garden, but are taller than I am by far. They might stay shorter in a dryer spot. There are lots of good clear reds in annuals. One possibility are the smaller short spike-like bedding salvias that you see everywhere, or one of the large tender perennial red ones that I have sometimes used in pots, although I have to admit my favorite is Black & Blue salvia with black elephant ears. Now that makes a late garden statement.

I personally would probably use the dahlia Bishop of Llandaff, that someone already mentioned, if I wanted to stick with red. It is one of my absolutely favorite dahlias. I love its dark foliage in the early season and the flowers are a wonderful velvety red in late summer. With frequent fertilization it grows nice and lush, a good 3 feet tall, even in my short season. I grow it nearly every year in a pot. It's easily available and inexpensive for the long season it provides, so I never bother to try to save it. Another possibility would be a short red canna, again pot grown, which you would just put in place after the monardas are cut down.

BTW, I currently have monarda Jacob Cline planted in a dry spot (the idea being to keep it under control) which is being crowded out by self-seeded Black Eyed Susans. I also have a huge clump of pink turtleheads in full sun & clay that is pushing hard into and around a large Montgomery Blue Spruce, so I'm not sure JC could push back well enough to hold its own against these two, at least on dry ground.

I was going to suggest Chelone, too. Mine will take a lot of sun, but the soil has to be rich and comfortably moist. Like Astilbes, it won't like "drying out".

I have naturally acidic soil and Chelone is native here, so I don't know if a limier soil would be to its liking. I also wondered about Eupatorium (another native for me).

I've failed every time I've tried Lobelia, but would LOVE to succeed... . As for Monarda, I yanked every speck of what I had here years ago. I've never missed it or second-guessed my decision. I liked the flowers, but the mildew and seasonal decline was too much of a PITA. Not for me!

Although it's raining - again - you've all given me some great ideas to work with.

Hostared - love Rudbeckia but have alot on one side of the garden already. I do have some Chelone in another part of the garden that gets hidden, but it only gets a couple of feet tall. I'd like something 3ft or so to have a presence in front of the Mondarda foliage.

CBS & Donnabaskets - I was just thinking of retrying Lobelia. It doesn't always come back for some reason so I was hesitant to get my hopes up again. Unfortunately, I don't have enougj sun to really do Muhly Grass justice.
I do Love the Bishop of Llandaff Dahlias idea. Do they get to 3 ft? Do I buy them as tubers or as ready grown plants?

Leslie - I did cut some Monarda back to stagger bloom, but and it was great. But, will probably cut back to half next season...this was my first try at it. In terms of potted plants, I have only grown small annuals in my pots. What determines if a spot is wet...since, we try to water all the garden areas?
Thanks.

janice & chelone - what kind of Lobelia have you tried? The straight species are not long lived, but the hybrids live longer & tolerate drier soil. I've had Lobelia 'Monet Moment' for 7 years, & have even divided it. My soil is anything but moist or wet. They are planted in partial shade. The key to Lobelia survival is to avoid smothering them with winter mulch, but also to mulch them enough to keep them from frost-heaving. The rosette of leaves is semi-evergreen. I have had great success with pine straw mulch, that is pine needles. A layer of pine needles at least 3" thick surrounding the plant and covering the crown seems to work. Shredded leaf mulch should be used on the ground beyond the pine straw. Also, on warm winter days they should be checked & pushed back into the soil if they have heaved out.

Janice, even if you water your garden regularly there are probably areas which are drier and areas that are wetter. Wet spots can be found in a low lying area as I have in my garden, or even an area with only a small depression in the soil, or an area with heavier soil that holds water. If you raise a bed just a few inches above ground level, the drainage in the bed is better & the area at the very edge will likely get some water runoff and be wetter. In my garden I am very conscious of these wet areas because my yard slopes downward front to back and also side to side, so the highest driest parts are near the house and in the center of the yard. The right lower side is very wet, the left lower side is somewhat wet, the area along the ridge above these beds can be dry & rock hard. In areas where the soil is amended heavily the drainage is better, but still moisture retentive & clay based. In dry times the hard packed clay can just slough off the water, absorbing little. Downpours can also result in water laying in a heavy clay spot for hours or days, acting more like a pottery bowl than garden soil.

You may not have any of these problems, but most every yard has at least some minor microclimates and variations in drainage, and some places in your yard probably will receive some water runoff from your hoses or sprinklers or melting snow. I have to avoid those places (or plant very carefully) in my garden, in order for many plants to be able to over winter. Winter wet is the culprit, not winter cold & not summer watering. The plantings in my "wet" garden don't care - they were chosen because they love this stuff.

BTW, I grow lots of stuff in pots partly because I can control the soil composition and watering, but mostly because my gardens are full! Whenever I have an empty spot, as everyone mostly does later in the season, I pick out something from the patio and insert it in the garden. Works well and doesn't have you fretting about the space that oriental poppies or spring ephemerals leave. Here are some ideas.

Pot grown Bishop of Llandoff dahlia

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3 pots set out in the garden (Cordyline, Dahlia, & Red Fountain grass)
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More pots - seed grown Jasmine Nicotianas can be popped in anywhere

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Put this one in just to show you that you can go big in pots - the large plant on the left middle is Black & Blue Salvia just starting to bloom, the bright green short plant on the left with paddle leaves is a seeded Nicotiana sylvestris which will eventually get 5 feet tall, & of course that's a castor bean plant at the back, also seed grown. All of these can be placed in the yard as they get too big for the patio. I use a luggage dolly to move these!
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Coleus from cuttings - lots of good reds here - notice the houseplant to the left - everything goes outside and gets used in my gardens... LOL
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More red coleus & houseplants with Datura Ballerina & a flowering maple

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Leftover poppy seeds planted in a small pot for the fall season
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Annual coreopsis also late planted in a pot, good fall colors
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Janice: I plant my Bishop Dahlias from tubers. The best price I have seen for them have been from either Brent & BEcky's Bulbs or from Select Seeds. (I have never seen them in my garden centers, but this is a small town.) I know nothing about dahlias (need to learn more), but Bishops have always been successful for me.

Leslie: these pictures are spectacular! Are you sure you aren't a contributing editor to Fine Gardening?
Question about your cordyline. I have one for the first time this year. It has done fine in a pot, but has grown almost none at all, so I would prefer not to have to start over next year. Do you overwinter yours? How? I have a basement I could put it in, or a screened in porch. I know it's a tropical, so feel sure it would need some protection. How much water does it need in the winter?
BTW, I love your idea about the black elephant ears and black and blue salvia. I grow them both but never together. Will be trying that!

Entling - I don't know the Lobelia that I've tried...garden center variety. But, I'd love to give the Monet Moment a try.
I have part sun/shade...Rudebeckia loves the area. Is this a good time to try to hunt down some of the MM Lobelia to give it a home before winter??

Leslie - You have inspired me to get a bunch of pots and plantsome Bishop of Llandoff and some of your other suggestions. Are any of your planters plastic, or all ceramic in nature? Also, are most of your potted plants annuals?

Donnabaskets - Thanks for the info on BD. I wonder if its a good idea to order them now and hold for early Spring planting? Do they get pretty tall in one season??

Great pics.

Perennial hibiscus comes in rich red as well as a spectrum of pinks and whites. They start blooming for me just at the momarda winds down. I pinch them once or twice.

Ladychroe...I think Hibiscus would get too bushy for the area I need to fill.
Thanks.

I love blue in the garden. A reliable bloomer Aug/Sept in my garden is Monkshood (Aconitum)- it does great in 1/2 sun, and I grew it when we lived in Suburban Boston (zone 5), as well as here in Kentucky.
Robin

Donna,

I have never overwintered the smaller brownish cordylines, just buy new each year. I have overwintered for years a large maroon/burgandy one, looks like a red corn plant. I treat it as a houseplant. I have a south facing door wall with an additional long low east facing window on the side wall in my kitchen eating area where I overwinter most tropicals. I also use my garage. I have some deep metal shelving on the inside wall where I put large pots, after cutting plants back (or letting them dieback) in the fall. The plants in the garage I water only a couple of times a winter (or none). The ones inside the house also get very little watering, just enough to keep them from drying out completely, since they are mostly semi-dormant, just sitting there. Some plants like clivia miniata get put in a dark corner of the kitchen or hidden behind other plants & need no watering at all from late fall until about April. The cordyline actually grows some indoors so it gets a bit more water. BTW, I grow the salvia B&B and the elephant ears in separate pots, because the ears need lots of water & the salvias don't. I just place the pots next to each other.

Thanks also for the compliments on the pictures - just remember pictures allow you to show just the pretty stuff - not the failures or the messes! LOL

Janice,

Most of my pots are plastic or fiberglass or tufa. I own some big ceramic pots that I use inside for some of the overwintering plants, but I seldom bring them outside - too easy to break them, they are also heavy, & they won't overwinter outside in zone 5. I also put lots of my outdoor pots on wheeled trays. The really big ones are too heavy for trays and have to be dragged around on a dolly. I also use some old stacked patio stones to stagger the heights of some of my patio pots. Most all this stuff was collected over a period of time & I'm always on the lookout for inexpensive decent looking sturdy pots - the bigger the better. Keep in mind also that once things get going, you just can't see much of the pot anyway.

As to what I plant in pots - just about everything. I have two large Alberta Spruces, started small & moved up over the years until they are now in 20+ inch pots & outgrowing those. I also have 2 Green Velvet boxwoods in pots that have been that way for the last 4 years. I have a bunch of mini evergreens & deciduous shrubs in low tufa containers. I have one planter with Hens & Chicks that stays outside all winter.

I have also (not so much anymore) raised numerous deciduous shrubs in pots, including roses & wiegelas, and a nice collection of mini hostas & a few daylilies, along with cuttings and new starts of various perennials. Some of these need winter protection outside from hay, leaves or bubblewrap. Most eventually (usually sooner than later) go out into the yard.

Many of my pots have tender perennials or tropicals in them, that go into the garage or the kitchen for winter. I generally only overwinter things like elephant ears, hibiscus, fuschias, brugmansias for only 3 or 4 years. By that time they are tired & so am I, & the plants are usually just too big and heavy even with lots of cutting back. I've not had much luck with lifting and storing dahlias or other tubers, so I often just keep them going (barely) in the kitchen or the woody stuff in the garage.

I also direct seed some easy plants like zinnias, coresopsis, calendula, & poppies into small pots for fillers here and there. I often start larger things like canna tubers or castor bean inside the house in late March and then plant them into my outdoor pots. I also like to do leaf lettuces of all sorts and a few other veggies in patio pots.

Most of the stuff though is bought either locally (I have several good nurseries near me where I always seem to find something new to try) or through some place like Select Seeds. SS sells plants as well as seeds and has a nice selection of plants with scent. I love their scented geraniums & that's where I got my original jasmine nicotianas. I never disturb my pots until I can see the nics coming up! I also usually buy a tropical vine or two (or three) from them as well. I have several 3 foot tall black metal tuteurs that I use in large pots for the vines & to give height to my plantins. Upside down hanging tomatoes (bought locally) do well in pots hanging from the Arbor!

Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a collection of odd houseplants, mostly euphorbias & cactus, with a few bulbous palms & aralias, plus some large leafed things, that go outside for the summer starting in late May until late August-early September. (I've been known to frost/freeze a few of these over the years). The only thing I leave inside are my orchids & the occasional violet. I love taking them all out - it's bringing them in that's a pain - try moving a five foot cactus sometime!
Anyway, have fun with your container growing - I am hereby enabling you to try anything in a pot. I sure have. :~)).

Leslie...great stuff...thanks!
Can't wait to try starting some Canna Tubers and Bishop L. Dahlia Tubers in the Spring (March?). Since I've not done this before, what kind of soil mixture do you use...and do you feed the tubers? The Canna plants would look great in the bare spot I mentioned in my post. Do you think if I start them in March they would be ready to transplant in May? I'm assuming I should start them in a small container and move to a larger one in the late spring if I don't transplant.
I'm going to keep a look out for those in catalogs or at a garden center.
Thanks for all the info.
Jan

Have you thought of Cannas? Of course they would probably have to be replanted every year, but they are awesome plants for the foliage, health, vigor and beautiful blooms.

I use bagged potting soil for the cannas, both for those going into outside pots and for ones going into the ground. If you plan on putting them into the ground you could probably use plain garden soil, as these are not delicate plants that need great drainage, but I have never tried it. I have lifted the tubers soil and all after dieback in the fall & wintered them in the garage in pots & then returned them to the house (in the same soil) and started watering them again in spring, with no problems.

Cannas will grow quickly & tend to get a bit top heavy in small pots & tip over, so I like to place the plastic pot into a heavier ceramic container in the house. I usually start them individually in a large black plastic pot, 3 gallon size?? maybe, if I have some that size. The tubers can be 3-4 inches long and even larger, and don't need deep planting, so it is very easy to do. I did them once with a bunch of tubers in a very large pot and had to hack them apart - too much work, so now each one gets its own pot.

You probably only need to start them about a month before your outside soil can be easily worked. Cannas are pretty hardy so you don't have to wait until it is late enough to plant annuals to plant them outside, but you don't want to stunt them by putting them outside in the cold (especially cold ground), after starting them in a warm 70 degree kitchen either. (My clay can be mucky late into spring if we get a lot of spring rains, so I usually do wait a bit, but if you have better soil, you can get them outside earlier than me & your season may start a bit earlier & last longer than mine anyway). If you are just putting them into a larger pot on the patio near the house, it doesn't really matter much exactly when in the spring you do it.

I don't fertilize the cannas until they start looking like a canna, with some good sized leaves. If you plan on them staying in a pot all summer, then you will need to fertilize regularly, as well as needing some extra watering. In the ground in my wet clay they get big (larger than stated size) without much if any fertilizer at all.

Mine usually get planted out when they are about a foot tall for the short ones and maybe two feet for the tall ones. A month to six weeks max, I think, so I would start them in early to mid April for mid-May or late May transplanting. The tubers are often sprouting by the time they get here from mail order and sometimes even in their sawdust or peat baggies from the local nurseries - pretty fail-safe plants. Have fun!

Leslie - Thanks so much for the info. My back porch isn't as warm as a kitchen, so I'm going to try starting the tubers in March and see what happens. I'm excited to try something new.
Do you ever use the Osmocote time release feed? I've been advised to get it from one of the nurseries I go to, but haven't tried it. Going to start looking for Tubers in the Fall..hopefully, not too early to check.
Thanks, again.

Janice - Fall is a good time to plant Lobelias. I hope you find them.

Osmocote slow release is good stuff. Should make a nice start for the cannas, if you have it. For most flowering annuals, however, I usually just use the cheapest stuff for blooming that I can find, every three weeks or so, since so much of the fertilizer just leaches away in the frequent watering of the pots.

Entling, I'm going to see if my local garden center has any Lobelias and get some to plant soon (as soon as it stops raining!).

Leslie, I haven't fertilizing anything except for the veggies and they haven't done well this year. Must have been the spring freeze! But, I can't wait to search out some Canna tubers, etc.

Hi janicejll! How about some red Crocosmia? My C. 'Emberglow' overwinters great with just a bit of mulch. It has great dark, spiky foliage and red flowers with orange centers. Its blooming now and the hummers just love them. Mine isnt quite three ft. though. Hope this helps you!
CMK

Janice, I would wait to order the dahlias until the seed catalogs come out. Let the mail order places do the winter storage for you. They come up pretty fast once you plant them out. My Bishops get about 3 feet tall, give or take. They are blooming now and I remember all over again how much I love them. I planted them this year in a new bed that is anchored with a Chaemycyparis Filifera Aurea, and they are stunning by that chartreuse foliage. (I actually worried they would be an awful clash: NOT!) Just as a note, I also put in that bed some deep purple leaved cannas with red blooms just about the color of the Bishop's along with some Phaison cannas (which I cut the blooms off of), and is it ever a stunner.

Leslie, I read your notes to Janice about cannas with great interest. One of the reasons they do so well in the south is that they actually like clay soil, seemingly the heavier the better. They also like wet, which may be why they like clay so much. So....,I would think that if anything could grow in a pot with topsoil, cannas would be it.
Also, point taken on the Elephant Ears and Salvia. I have had plenty enough painful experience with Elephant Ears to know they must always be in solitary confinement (and in a POT). I know you all don't have this problem, but Illustris is one of the most invasive plants I ever put in the ground.