I got the balance of my Burgess order, so I figured I'd follow up. It seems to be a definite "some things are better than others" type of place, so hopefully this will help someone figure out what is most worth it: Rose bushes and peony trees (bare root) came looking quite decent, and all of them have continued to be alive in my garden. A few have been slow to leaf out, but nothing arrived dead or rotted, and everything seems to be getting along now. Humming bird vines arrived looking like sticks - they were alive, but sticks. All are still alive, and one is leafing out, so, OK. The things are supposed to be impossible to kill, so I'm hopeful. Clematis came as cute little spider-looking root nodes. Fairly fresh looking. They have all sprouted up nicely. Honesuckle vines looked like a bit of a mess when they arrived - it was hard to tell what was supposed to be planted, what was root vs. vine, etc. I've got nothing out of those yet, and for all I know I planted the darn things upside down. Day lilies came as nice little root bunches, and all are sprouting up nicely now. The bare root trees I had received earlier all still appear to be alive (they're flexible and show green if you scratch the bark), but not a one has leafed out yet. The little potted lemon and lime trees I got came looking good, but the lime was suffering such a mineral deficiency I'm still not sure it will make it. Maybe 3 years from now I'll have a stand of nice little trees started for next to nothing and I'll pat myself on the back, but I'm not awfully impressed on the tree front just yet. Overall I'm still giving Burgess a solid C. I'd never accept it if I'd paid anything approaching a usual nursery price for what I got, but overall I think I got what I paid for.

This week I'll review my experiences with Stanley and Sons nursery. ***************************** STANLEY AND SONS ***************************** Stanley and Sons Inc. is a Wholesale nursery located in NW Oregon. They have specialized in rare and unusual conifers and Japanese maples since the mid-1970s with some ten acres of nursery grounds and grafting/offering more then 2000 different conifers. While they are 'wholesale', they do occasionally offer their wares to avid collectors, provided you meet certain requirements. Since Stanley and Sons is a wholesale seller, often the prices of the plants are unbeatable. To acquire such plants, retailers or collectors usually must have a retail nursery or membership into the ACS - American Conifer Society. Also, orders must contain a minimum number of plants(depending on the size of the plants). www.stanleyandsons.com Inventory: ***** S&S has the largest overall offering of conifers that I'm aware of online. Offering some 2,000+ conifers, including new ones every year from Holland/New Zealand, they offer both common plants you might find at Lowes, to very rare plants seldom seen in any but the most exclusive online nurseries. They also offer large stock supplies of many of their conifers, with some conifer inventories listed in the thousands. For the retailer, S&S offers a gigantic selection of very well priced conifers covering both large and small. I have friends who run a landscaping business and they have recently pledged future funds in return for unique conifers to provide their customers landscapes. I have also found S&S to be an extremely reliable source to find rare and unusual conifers - particularly 'large upright' conifers that I've had a very hard time finding online. Stock quality/size: **** S&S offers many sized plants, but the overwhelming majority of plants listed for sale are 4" pot and 1 gallon sized plants. S&S does offer 3-gallon and 10-gallon(or larger) plants, but these are much less common and are also sometimes too large to ship via UPS. The size of the plants varies from small one-year grafts to large, overflowing plants that are 3-5 years old or more. I've ordered a half dozen plants in three gallon sizes and I was impressed every time. Generally speaking, the 4" pots are 'starter' plants, often very recent cuttings. Where the size might be lacking is more then made up for in quality - Stanley and Sons offers some of the healthiest looking plants I've experienced from any nursery online. General experience/Customer service: *** Stanley and Sons has an impressive packaging/shipping routine. Every conifer is well labled with size/habit details and every box is extremely well packaged. Shipping for me here in the Northwest is both inexpensive and very quick, usually overnight. Of course I live within 3 hours of S&S nurseries, so East coast travel times may be longer. Stanley and Sons is a WHOLESALE nursery, so they operate much differently then other nurseries you may have experienced. From what I have seen and read here on these forums, it can be difficult to contact them directly and they may even scold customers from calling/asking specific details. Really, any collector/conifer enthusiast should be happy enough if they are offered these conifers in the first place. Complaints/pestering, etc. are not likely to be well received, especially given the huge discount you're already looking at on very fine plants. Orders are usually placed online with a pre-given CC# and confirmation of the order is usually given in 24 to 48 hours. Sometimes stock may not be present even if it shows on their availability list - again, another aspect of the wholesale industry. I've never had a bad experience with Stanley and Sons and would recommend them for anyone with retail needs or looking to add to their collection. Just keep in mind that they are wholesale, so being able to even shop from them is a huge perk. Value: **** Unquestionably, S&S offers some of the least expensive plants I have come across. I've purchased several dozen plants between $7.50 and $15 that have thrilled my landscaping friends. Though they aren't 'instant gratification plants', the rarity of some of these plants gives them top value. While other nurseries offer older stock, S&S has the best prices. This of course is an uncomfortable point - Stanley and Sons is WHOLESALE, and their are ethical questions whether or not 'retail consumers' should even have access. It's not one I'll argue either way as I am just a small fish and new to all of this - just keep it in mind if you're considering placing and order - and certainly don't be upset if you're denied access. Personally I have found many nurseries to have redeeming qualities when it comes to their own offerings, and I have and will continue to place orders with other nurseries, but for the conifer enthusiast on a budget, S&S really is sort of your holy grail of nurseries. If you have more time then money, it is probably one of your best options. In the end, whether you're a retail nursery owner or a very avid conifer collector, Stanley and Sons offers an extremely reliable, inexpensive way to further increase your wares. It's impossible not to recommend them. A typical 'cart' of 15 4" pots. Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Confucious' 1GAL - $7.50 Cryptomeria japonica 'Black Dragon' 1GAL - $7.50 Cryptomeria japonica 'Elegans Compacta' 1GAL - $7.50 (Huge plant for 1 gallon sized) Picea abies 'Chrudim WB' 4" POT - $10 Picea abies 'Hildburghausen' 3GAL - $25 Pinus nigra 'Gaelle Bregeon' 3GAL - $25 Psuedotsuga menziessi 'Valdstejn' 1GAL - $15 Next week: Cloud Mountain Farms and Girards Nursery. Will

Will- The reviews are great. I really appreciate them. Are you familiar with Evergreen Nursery? I have placed several orders from them in the last year and have been wonderfully pleased. They don't have the largest selection, but they do have some uncommon species, and what they offer is top notch size, quality, and price. They have terrific service as well. Darren does all that he can to help, and does it in a very timely manner. You might want to check them out. Eliot P.S. I have no interest in Evergreen Nursery, I'm just one very satisfied customer. Same goes for Girard Nursery. I only live a couple of hours from them and hope to make it up to visit this year. I started buying from them about the same time as Evergreen. Can't wait to see your review for Girard's as well. Here is a link that might be useful: Evergreen Nursery

hey shady ... welcome to GW ... there are a series of posts.. by FFB.. firefighterboy.. about online retailers ... try his name and something or another in the GW search box ... i suggest you find a local arborteum.. and visit.. to see what will grow in your area ... the further south you go.. the less likely the abies ???.. whats the middle latin name??? ... the less likely they will thrive .. hence a local visit to a tagged collection ... the hunt.. is part of the fun.. but let me tell you.. they are always coming out with new names.. and sometimes its hard to find the old names .... so try to find 'the look' .. but dont get caught on specific names ... link to intro to conifers ... as trees.. they never really stop growing.. size estimates are at 10 years .... its all about annual growth rate.. and how fast they make it to the listed mature size.. and how fast they go right past .... predict double the size in 20 years ... but let me make it very clear.. us hardcore.. would rather you buy something that will thrill you for 10 or 15 years.. and then get rid of it.. instead of buying something that 'fits' .... good luck ken Here is a link that might be useful: intro