Need hardy, thornless rose to drape down tall retaining wall
paulineinmn
13 years ago
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catsrose
13 years agobuford
13 years agoRelated Discussions
Help with thornless rose selection for Z5a
Comments (9)Are you sure you want antique roses for this job? I ask, because constant rebloom, vivid colors and glossy foliage aren't a combination you'd be likely to find in Europe at an early date, regardless of thorniness. My thornless, or nearly thornless garden roses, dating from prior to 1925, are: Chloris (matte foliage, once bloomer) Complicata (once bloomer, single, not very fragrant) "Dr. Peck's"/Charles Lawson of US commerce (once bloomer) Duchesse de Brabant (some thorns, less fragrance) Duchesse de Rohan (matte foliage) Empress Josephine (matte foliage, once bloomer) Gaspard Monge (once bloomer) Gloire des Rosomanes (not glossy, and a little thorny, but otherwise fits) Mme Jules Bouche (some thorns, cream colored flowers) Mme Plantier (once bloomer) Musk rose (matte foliage, reblooms for me, but wouldn't in Chicago, single) Perle d'Or (some thorns, otherwise fits, but not cold hardy) "Pickering Four Seasons" (matte foliage) rosa macrantha (once bloomer, single, not very fragrant) Sydonie (not all clone lines are thornless, and the little flowers aren't very strongly scented) Out of the rebloomers above, I'm doubtful whether the early Polyanthas, Hybrid Chinas or Hybrid Teas would make it through a Chicago winter, even with protection. Duchesse de Brabant is supposed to be good to 5b, but is the thorniest on the list, and my nose doesn't find it worth bothering over (your nose may vary). Of the others, Sydonie is the only one supposed to be cold hardy enough for the job, and it's far from being a constant bloomer. Good luck with your quest!...See Morethinking of planting thornless rose vine by my pergola
Comments (30)I applaud your eagerness, virtu, but I think you need to consider quite a few things before you plant anything. About those pots. Christopher is correct, you need something that will stand up to your winters. Do not use terracotta or any kind of ceramic pots. They will freeze and shatter probably the first winter. Find the thick walled foam or resin pots and go WAY BIGGER than you think you need. Roses grown in pots occasionally have to be root pruned and given new soil or they'll die. Root pruning means you have to take the pot off and cut back the root ball. That's going to be difficult to do with a 10 ft rose. The bigger the pot the less often you'll have to do that. I have 50 some roses in pots and in my zone 6 I root prune about every 5 years but it also depends a lot on the vigor of the rose you're growing. Roses also require pruning some times and particularly in cold climates where there is winter kill. It's going to be very difficult to prune them on top of that structure. Another thing is the pergola itself. What is it made of and is it going to need regular maintenance of some kind? You'll have to be able to remove any growth for that. Some things can be lifted and laid down for maintenance and then put back up. I know I've done that with clematis before in order to paint some posts I have it growing on. Roses tend to be stiffer though and that could be harder to do. You said there was soil at the base of the posts. How big an area and how deep can you dig there? It looks like you have patio block. You may be able to plant them there if they are small plants to start with. If they can still get water through the patio blocks the roots will be able to spread out beneath it. They'll really do better planted in the ground and will be way less up keep for you too. My other concern is sunlight. Looks like there's a big tree near by. How much sun does the area get? Roses need at least 6 hours of full sun and more like 8 to grow and bloom well. I'm not trying do dissuade you. I agree with you that it would be gorgeous. I'm just trying to make sure you enter this well prepared. It's always better to know what to expect and be ready to deal with it....See MoreYour favorite thornless or nearly so rose?
Comments (17)I add my vote for 'Mrs. Dudley Cross' as my favorite smooth stemmed rose.. Really rapid re-bloom. Mrs. D. has a similar wide bloom to Marie van Houtte and where I live Mrs. Dudely Cross is more prettily colored most of the year, she shows a creamy center with blush pink to rose-red edges depending on hot or cool weather. We rarely ever see the yellow in M.van Houtte which usually only comes out in the cooler days of Autumn. Mrs. D. is a smaller plant than Marie Van Houtte which a.r.e. says is like " Mrs. Dudley Cross on Steroids", but M.van H. has masses of big red thorns and can grow easily to be 8 feet in all directions, ready to snag and scratch the skin of an unwary gardener, so not suitable for a small garden, while Mrs. Dudley Cross can be espaliered against a house and kept at c. 5 feet tall by 3 and 1/2 feet from wall to pathway making a very pretty "wall of roses" affect. 'Mme. Berkeley' hasn't a great number of prickles and so I have her growing near a pathway too, she is my favorite pink blend Tea. I wish I hadn't been impatient and bought two 'Blossomtime' for a front arbor because they were on rootstock and would cover the arbor rapidly compared to an own root Tea-Noisette. I hope to never settle again on, what would turn out to be for me, an inconvenient rose. I've heard that Aimee Vibert' is thornless and if that is true I'm thinking of buying one to hide a big stack of meters on the back of my house, and plant the rosebush on the corner of a tall fence and allowed to grow over a swing-out lattice built like a doorway to cover an ugly display of 4 meters. If I remember right her foliage is very beautiful, which is another great plus for me. Luxrosa...See MoreLinks to hardy roses in cold zones & best roses for hot & dry climate?
Comments (30)Below is the info. that Floweraremusic (zone 5) in Washington gave on her 2020 winter-survival. She has alkaline clay with rocks at bottom like mine & less snow in winter: "My hardiest roses are the Canadians. John Davis, John Cabot, Wm. Baffin, Morden Sunrise, Morden Blush and Morden Centennial, Victorian Memory aka Isabelle Skinner, also a Canadian rose. All these only have tiny bit of tip damage and bloom a lot with no special care. Also, my Hybrid Perpetuals only have tip damage after winter. Magna Charta, Mrs. John Laing, Black Prince and Marchesa Buccella. The only negative is they don’t have long enough cutting stems. All my Austins are very hardy. The one I just can not grow is Jude. Leonardo da Vinci is super hardy and always healthy. Quietness comes through winter very well. Even Rouge Royale survives beautifully. Cinderella Fairy Tale is very hardy. Gruss an Aachen also. Ballerina and Marjorie Fair are both hardy. Poseidon, Princess Charlene de Monaco and Crazy Love didn’t do as well as I’d hoped. The surprise losses this year are Quicksilver, and Dames de Chenonceau who is left with only 1 cane. Versigny is also reduced down to almost nothing. This was a mild winter with very little snow. " Floweraremusic (zone 5). From StrawChicago (zone 5a with hard black-gumbo alkaline clay & less snow but with freezing rain in winter). Versigny didn't survive winter either. So I lost Versigny TWICE. Besides Versigny, other wimpy own-root roses that don't survive winter well: Paul Neyron, Anna's Promise, Pink Peace (own-root died 1st winter, but grafted-Pink Peace survives many winter), Elantyne, Jude the Obscure, Young Lycidas (bought as grafted-on-Dr.Huey, now with only one cane), Mary Daly, and many floribundas don't survive my zone 5a: Pink Chiffon, Sheila's perfume, King Arthur, Deep Purple, Shocking blue, Honey Bouquet (survived 1 winter). Polka Climber (survived 1 winter), Cloutilde Soupert (died twice on me). Sutter's Gold didn't survive winter, same with many fragrant mini-roses from Burlington nursery. Below are my hardy OWN-ROOT roses in my zone 5a alkaline clay, only Double Delight, Young Lycidas and Lavender Crush are grafted-on-Dr.Huey. Bold-faced are the very vigorous ones: Own-roots with 3 feet of green canes: Carding Mill (since 2012), Princess Charlene of Monaco, Duchess de Rohan, Crown Princess Magareta (since 2012), Zepherine Drouhin, Lady of Shalott, James Galway, Lavender Crush, Queen of Sweden (gave away but very hardy), Poseidon (right below the rain-spout, dug down to 2.5 feet), Scepter'd Isle (very big & hardy own-root but gave that away with its lousy scent). Own-roots with 2 feet of green canes: La Reine (many winters), Blue Mist (since 2012), Prairie Harvest (since 2014), Mary Magdalene (since 2011), Evelyn (since 2012), Radio Times (since 2011), Pat Austin (since 2011), Christopher Marlowe (since 2011), Golden Celebration (since 2011), Lilian Austin (gave away but very hardy), the Squire, the Dark Lady, Wise Portia survived 4 winters but died in poor drainage clay, Dee-lish (since 2015), Twilight Zone (since 2016), William Shakespeare. 2000 (since 2011), Comte de Chambord (since 2012), Princess Anne, Sweet Mademoiselles, Aloha climber, Orchid Romance, Bohemian Rhapsody, Marie Pavie, Lagerfeld (since 2017), Frederic Mistral survived 2 winters but died when I didn't winter-protect with leaves, Sonia Rykiel (survived 3 winters) but died in freezing rain winter, same with 1/4 of the street-trees in my neighborhood, Excellenz von Shubert (since 2013), Own-roots with less than 1 foot of green canes: Gina's rose, Tchaikosky (since 2015), Cornelia (since 2018), Bolero (few winters), Peter Mayle, Sharifa Asma, Neil Diamond, Amber Queen, A Shopshire Lad, Strike it Rich, Old Port (since 2012), Veteran's Honor (many winters), Double Delight (grafted on Dr.Huey), Savannah, Tess of d'Uberville, Gene Boerner (since 2014), thornless Yves Seedling (since 2013), Stephen big Purple (since 2012), Louise Este, Mirandy, Crimson Glory, Liv Tyler survived 1 winter but needs winter-protection, Rouge Royal (bought last year with no winter-protection). Annie L. McDowell (survived 2 winters but needs a wet-spot since it's almost thornless), Nahema (survived 1 winter then died during freezing-rain winter), same with Eyes-for-you (drought-tolerant and doesn't like freezing wet winter), Souvenir du President Lincoln, Madame Issac Pererie and Madame Earnest Calvat, Firefighter (survived 2 winters) but died since it's next to tree. Bayes Blueberry (survived many winters but I gave away), Charles Darwin (gave away since it fades badly), Arthur Bell (since 2012 & killed it since I don't like the flowers). StrawChicago....See Moredrudadunat
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