I looked at Kardinal on an image search and some of them look red, but some look pink and some look more orange. I think the camera, the culture, and the lighting conditions influence the photographs so it's hard to tell which is really true red. I used to have an American beauty growing up, I thought it was really red, but now I read it's on the pink side. It was not a hybrid tea, it was more like a big huge bush with red roses on it. It's probably good to go to rose shows and nursery to see them in person before selection a color that is the red that you want.

I have Taboo/Barkarole on multiflora rootstock and it's a lovely dark red to nearly black without doing the purple-ick-fade. Disease resistance is pretty good for me, but it has only normal scent; nothing heady or deep. I think its form is beautiful. Seems very similar to Black Magic. Were you looking for the nearly black reds or the vibrant, primary reds? Firefighter is gorgeous too, but to me it looks like more of a primary red.

Well, there is zone 4 and there is zone 4. Here are some observations from tropical Minnesota zone 4a. Hansa, is probably your best shot for height, fragrance, and salt tolerance. However, it it is not really a true red. It is a deep magenta pink and in some conditions tends towards fuchsia purple. Robusta, here is not robust. It typically dies to the ground each winter and has a tough time recovering any size. It is a nice red though if it is hardy in your area. Knockout here is only crown hardy, and that only after it is well established. There is no chance of Knockout getting to four feet here. It will get to two or two and one half in a good year. It is however, a very nice compact landscape plant with almost constant color and no particular disease problems. Ramblin Red and Quadra, both have varying amounts of die back here depending on the winter. They will send up canes that will get to six feet or more, but the bulk of the plant is much lower and the long canes can use some support. Both are close to red and have nice large flowers. In my opinion, they are not landscape plants, but suited for a trellis or pillar or against a fence. F.J. Grootendorst, grows to three or four feet here. It has large clusters of small red blooms and shows color most of the growing season. To me, it looks better at a distance than up close. It grows in a vase shape and a hedge of FJG looks a little bare legged. Perfectly hardy here. A good contender for size and color would be Hope For Humanity. This Canada rose gets four to five feet here and has large clusters of medium size, blood red flowers. No scent to mention. It is generally cane hardy here and will increase in size from year to year. The flower clusters are mainly on the ends of canes, but the plant has compact foliage to the ground. Its salt tolerance is unknown. Too bad that Winnipeg Parks is so short. It lacks only height to be almost perfect. It doesn't get much sidewalk salt here, but it does tolerate salty slush plowed up from the street without complaint. I would probably go with Hansa unless real red was needed. If Hansa is happy where it is planted, you will eventually have some work to keep the plant in bounds. Regards, Charles

I was interested in Grand Amore after I read a bit about it. It's a Kordes! As I'm interested in them I see it is not new but old having been introduced in 1968! Not in the ARS Encylo... And only a couple of listings in my old 2007 Combined Rose List. I'm glad to see that Palatine is researching some of the old Kordes roses as they have been very much neglected here. I've yet to buy from P but have heard many good things about them. I may have to forget about Hortico that has been my source of out of the way Kordes roses. When they shipped the right one!