It's a Chinaberry tree, pretty common in the southern states.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chinaberry at Wikipedia

This is a very problematic, invasive species in many warmer areas. Dirr goes so far as to indicate a preference for Ailanthus altissima (Tree of Heaven) over this species.

Here is a link that might be useful: Melia azedarach

Thanks to both of you! You've been very helpful. I've been researching all the native trees of Florida and had no luck. I just read both links. A little worried about the invasive qualities, but it's so pretty and provides great shade. I'll just have to be extra careful to get all the seed up every year and pull out babies that sprout.

I'll just have to be extra careful to get all the seed up every year and pull out babies that sprout.

How will you follow the birds around to pick up their sprouts? Microchips?

Dan

"I'll just have to be extra careful to get all the seed up every year and pull out babies that sprout."

You'll need plenty of help. Birds can disperse seeds for quite a distance (before becoming paralyzed by the poisonous seeds).

Here is a link that might be useful: Floridata's Page (see Warning)

Gee Dan, I don't plan on following the birds, but I can at least do my best to minimize the potential. Thanks for the sarcasm. Your very good at it. Are you always this rude to novice gardeners?

brandon, again thank you for being so helpful! I'll have to consider having them removed. When my husband and I bought the house at least 10 trees were already established along the fence line.

Um....I think Dan was trying to be humorous, not sarcastic......?

Raven, how many paralyzed birds have you seen lately? if ever? Invasive, like wild hogs in Hawaii? Get rid of the hogs and you would kill off a major sport. One of my favorite trees is the Mimosa and I see how many many people say how invasive it is. I see a few growing wild here, but I certainly don't see them taking over the landscape. If you like this tree, which I do, I think it is lovely, always have. Don't let them make you feel guilty into cutting it down. It's a beautiful tree and it is part of nature. Chinaberry was the first beautiful tree I noticed as a child. They have been around for years and years and years and have yet to take over the world. Enjoy your tree.

"Raven, how many paralyzed birds have you seen lately? if ever?"

Kaytelle, are you questioning whether the seeds have this effect? If so, PLEASE, site your research sources!

"hogs in Hawaii?"

Still scratching my head on this one.

"I certainly don't see (Albizia julibrissin) taking over the landscape."

I'm not sure where you live, but if you lived in an area like here in Tennessee and didn't see Albizia julibrissin's invasive potential, I'd question whether you ever went outside! Invasive plants are destructive to different degrees in different locations. Plants that are invasive in one area, are not invasive everywhere. Again, if you doubt the destructive nature of invasive plants (or Melia azedarach, specifically), please show us where you get your info from. The science behind the problem is pretty well developed. I can think of arguments for keeping an invasive plant (although I probably won't go there), but "not seeing them in your landscape" is certainly not one of them (at least if you really understand what invasives are and what they do).

"Don't let them make you feel guilty into cutting it down."

I didn't see anyone doing that. However, such a course of action (or line of thought) would certainly be one reasonable result of consideration of the issue by a reasonable person. And, BTW, I'm not saying there can't be other reasonable conclusions. Invasive plants, in the US alone, cost us many hundreds of billions of dollars annually, and that doesn't even take into account the vast potential indirect costs associated with loss of species and indirect environmental damage.

"They have been around for years and years and years and have yet to take over the world."

No, but in the relatively small amount of time they have been around, they have done considerable environmental damage to native flora and fauna and cost a considerable amount of monetary loss. Just because it hasn't "taken over the world", doesn't mean it's not a really really bad thing.

Ya and man doesn't kill off the bison... or the tiger... or the whales.. nothing to do with nature at all. Don't you put me down for a plant... if you want to gripe at something... go HUNTING AND KILL SOMETHING. I don't even kill spiders much less trees. Nature put them there for a reason. If you want to talk about something taking over Nature... talk to Man.

"Nature put them there for a reason."

Ah ha!!!! There's where your thinking went wrong. "Nature" DIDN'T put them there and that's the root of the problem.

I am not here to argue with you dude... it's her tree, and it is beautiful... one more China Berry tree will not paralyze all the birds nor populate the world... you can use all the terminology on the proper identification of trees trying to outdo me... I am just a newbie and I admit it... and I am a nobody and I admit it... Nature DID put everything here including you. Man is the invasive species. It's our privilege and honor to live here not our right.

Man introduced hogs in Hawaii and they became an invasive species. Yet man made a sport and a food source of it. It's the way the world evolves.

I was born and raised in Texas. China Berry and Mimosa's were not a problem. Drive south and honey locust seem to be a problem... but they have thorns. Perhaps you would prefer those? Now Pine trees grow in abundance... millions and billions of them... is that not invasive, yet preferable. How lucky for them that they are preferable by MAN. I think it's all a matter of opinion, and I guess you have expressed yours.

I still think her China Berry tree is beautiful and that is my opinion.

Good night sir.

Kayelle,

We use the binomial names for a reason. It has nothing to do with looking smart or anything. It's to reduce confusion. For instance, the common name mimosa could apply to any of hundreds of different species, only one of which is Albizia julibrissin. In fact, Albizia julibrissin isn't even in the genus Mimosa. Many people, especially in other areas, wouldn't know what plant you were referring to above. In fact, I used deduction to guess what you probably meant, and couldn't be 100% sure. No one here knew the scientific names of plants in our earlier stage of dealing with plants. But, the sooner you learn, the better able you will be to specify exactly what you are talking about and clearly understand what others are talking about. It has nothing to do with outdoing anyone. In fact, it's more like being careful to use proper English when writing your posts.

"...one more China Berry tree..."

Now, that is actually a reasonable approach to arguing for keeping the tree. It's not a perfect argument (but none, including the ones from the other side of the debate) are. This one is kind of like saying that throwing one more beer can out of your car's window won't be the end of the world. And, that's absolutely true! One more beer can (or one more Chinaberry) isn't likely to be the tipping point for causing mass devastation.

"Nature DID put everything here including you."

Well, by that same argument, you could equally argue that nature put that beer can on the side of the road, but I bet you most people wouldn't accept that line of reasoning.

"It's our privilege and honor to live here not our right."

One could ask if it was not our responsibility, as part of the privilege and honor, not to damage the environment. Planting and growing invasive plants damages the environment by definition.

"Drive south and honey locust seem to be a problem..."

Some people may not like them for some reason (maybe the thorns or whatever), but they can't be a problem in the same way Chinaberries are. Honeylocust (Gleditsia triacanthos) is a native, so is not an invasive species in it's natural habitat.

"Now Pine trees grow in abundance... millions and billions of them... is that not invasive"

Nope, not at all. There are invasive pine species in some parts of the US, but that is such an exception to the rule that I just had to do a quick Google search to confirm it. It's very highly doubtful that the pines you are familiar with have any invasive potential whatsoever in the areas you have seen them in.

Invasive plants are not necessarily invasive because they are aggressive reseeders or rapid growers. In fact, some invasive plants rarely or never reseed! Most invasives do reseed prolifically and grow quickly, but it's not at all the definition. An invasive plant is a non-native plant whose aggressive proliferation (whether sexually or asexually) causes significant displacement or harm to native species of plants or animals. They are aggressively changing our environment by multiple factors including the elimination of native species (at best) or destroying our environment and possibly leading to a state in which both native species and humans will find it much more difficult to survive (at worst).

Um....I think Dan was trying to be humorous, not sarcastic......?

Yes, thank you, another reminder of the emoticon's importance.

But to wrap up the...erm...interesting direction the thread has taken, this reminds me of a conversation I had today with the BH, where someone she knows asked one of their staff if they could require removal of one of our pervasive invasives on private property - this invasive costs so much taxpayer money that this is a considered option.

Doubt it will happen, but illustrates the issue of responsibility, morality, action, and the human condition. Our actions often have a cost to others, and societies absorb these costs.

Dan

I've been wanting to post a thread about the philosophical debates and opinions about this subject (whether or not continued cultivation of invasive plants was a bad thing), but have resisted so far in fear that the conversation would attract those that either didn't understand and weren't willing to learn, or, those that just wanted to stir up trouble. I have been resisting for about a year or so, but I am seriously considering stepping out into the quick sand and trying not to get sucked under. I'm still thinking about whether it's a good idea (to post). (-;

You'll want to get all the science, philosophy, political economy and political ecology out quick before the thread devolves, so you can make it a link when the issue comes up.

Dan

The extreme hot and dry conditions in Texas do prevent some invasives from being as aggressive as they are in better areas. In my area (north Georgia), Mimosa has long been an invasive, especially on roadsides and vacant open land. It's rapid growth out-competes slower growing native species that might have grown there otherwise.

Tree of Heaven (Ailanthus altissima) is making great strides in new locations, increasing it's spread every year. Amazingly, our northern neighbor Tennessee, is more infested that we are with this pest. It stands shoulder to shoulder with the invasive bush honeysuckles that extend from where it is too shady for Tree of Heaven deep into the forest interior. I have seen "natural" areas in Tennessee that are just nothing but bush honeysuckle.

Chinaberry is moving into the metro area of Atlanta from the southeast where it has been a pest for years. Spread has been accelerated by folks that bring some seeds from elsewhere because "one more won't harm". However, bringing a new invasive into an area where it wasn't is harmful so now I guess these can fight with Mimosa and Tree of Heaven for the roadsides. That is, if they can get in there in between the Chinese privet ....

Princess Tree ( Paulownia tomentosa) is also a horrible plant and I've seen it on highways way up into the North Carolina mountains. It's small seeds are scattered by the wind mostly.

But our newest invasive is courtesy of man (again). Ornamental pears (think 'Bradford' pear) are producing viable fruit and being spread by animals/birds. Sunny roadsides and vacant lots now have lots of these thorny seedlings - very obvious in spring when they bloom.

And while I might appreciate the beauty of some of these plants, I can't help but consider how little they contribute to the natural environment which they have stomped on. Insects in our environments have not evolved with these plants and so get little nutritional value from them. Birds might eat some of their fruit/seeds, but birds heavily rely on insects as part of their diet (especially for their babies). Reduced native plant biomass in an area that is already reduced thanks to man's destruction of habitat means fewer insects for birds to consume. And that means fewer birds.

So while I agree that man is the worst impact on the natural environment ... it is also man that has the brains and the power to make it better.

I'm not saying that all non-native plants are awful, but these plants truly are. Their ability to spread themselves beyond your yard - even if you can personally see it, it is documented - makes them so. Plant a forsythia, a gardenia, a camellia, a crape myrtle, a hydrangea, daylilies, even knockout roses ... but don't keep these invasives going.

So while I agree that man is the worst impact on the natural environment ... it is also man that has the brains and the power to make it better.
The good Earth - we could have saved it, but we were too d-mn cheap and lazy. -- Kurt Vonnegut

Dan

Wow! I'm sorry this thread became such a big soap box, or maybe not. It sounds like this is a more serious subject than I thought and is a good thing to bring the info to light. What about the possibility of removing all but the one in my front yard and then keeping up on seed removal as they drop? Would that be a viable option to keep the one tree without contributing to the negative environmental impact? Also I have Hyacinth vine seedlings and read that they are invasive as well. Anyone know if it'll turn into a problem if I plant those in my yard?

RavenMyst-

I understand your point, and it is a lovely tree (it hasn't gotten to NJ yet, that I know of), but no one person can keep on top of seed production for a tree.
You can't, as a responsible adult, rationalize it away by saying "what difference can one tree make?"; some nimrod brought a couple pairs of nesting starlings to America about a hundred years ago - I'm sure that he thought that a couple birds wouldn't make a difference.

I love the smell of japanese honeysuckle - rich, sweet, to me it smells like summer. I will never, ever plant it, and when any neighbor asks for vine recommendations, I tell them to avoid Lonicera japonica and all its varieties like the plague, as it has grown over and eliminated dozens and dozens of native areas, just in NJ. Chinaberry is, according to the USDA, officially an invasive in Florida and Tennessee, which means that common sense tells you that it's not exactly encouraged anywhere else in that area.
This is like paying a speeding ticket - you've got to be a grown-up and realize that you can't always have what you want.

Here is a link that might be useful: National Arboretum page on invasives

"Insects in our environments have not evolved with these plants and so get little nutritional value from them. Birds might eat some of their fruit/seeds, but birds heavily rely on insects as part of their diet (especially for their babies). Reduced native plant biomass in an area that is already reduced thanks to man's destruction of habitat means fewer insects for birds to consume. And that means fewer birds."

This is basically it. Our native fauna and flora grew side by side for... well forever, in a balance with each other and one depends on the other for survival. Now, invasives from both sides are creating an imbalance in the give and take that should naturally occur. They grow unchecked by the natural predators/pathogens that keep their numbers in a controlled sustainable population in their native habitat to the detriment of the local native ecosystem.

Will they take over the world? No, but they will cause great harm in the immediate future.

On the bright side, after maybe a few 10's of thousands of years, "control agents" will have evolved to take advantage... maybe

A quick check finds that Hyacinth bean vine (Dolichos lablab) is locally aggressive but not invasive in the sense that it gets transported elsewhere and naturalizes itself in the wild (which is what most of us mean by "invasive").

Let me say that I appreciate very much your willingness to consider these arguments and change what you were planning to do. Every tree removed helps - even if it means that you remove all but one this year and take out the last one in a year or two.

One thing you can help to do is to educate others. Changes are if you have a chinaberry tree then your neighbors do too. Help them learn about why they should not keep them - the more people you convince, the more trees get removed. In that way you can help very much.

I appreciate everyone's help, both pro and con. When we bought the house we had NO idea we should have asked about the trees on the property. This would be a good message to pass on to all prospective home buyers. Don't just inquire about the state of the roof and plumbing, but the landscape species as well. I'm looking at a fortune in removal costs at 200$ a tree. With no assurance that they won't return. The people at the corner house (10 houses down)have a Chinaberry tree and my M.I.L. says it's been there for 3 generations. Their yard is beautiful and that is the only tree of it's kind on their property or that i've seen anywhere in our neighborhood except for the ones I have on my property. Guess their tree must be the most likely culprit, eh?

Yikes, I'm glad I didn't post any photos of my Pawlonia in bloom, it surprised me and had about the best display ever after a far colder than average winter.