I agree with Ken, another two bite the dust! LOL Seriously, it will be something of a shock when the trees are removed, but it is for the best. This is a case where it is better to have NO hair. I had 2 large Norway maples removed last November, and it took awhile to get used to the gaps that were left behind. But now I am thrilled. I am planting gardens and shrub borders instead! On the surface, these can be attractive trees, and they may work well in a contained urban setting. However, here in suburban/rural Northeast US, they are a scourge. I could go on and on about how horrible they are. But to summarize - - They are extremely invasive, and on the Prohibited plant list in Massachusetts. They make a million samaras and the seedlings sprout everywhere, and well beyond the boundaries of one's yard. They are one of the only species that can invade a mature forest. - Their canopies are extremely dense and aggressive, and cast a deep shade. The canopy spreads out wide and dominates its site, crowding out the canopies of neighboring trees (which can eventually die as the Norway grows bigger). When a Norway is removed, it is like "Let there be light". - Like other Maples, their roots grow near the surface and are very thirsty. They are also alleolopathic, which means they produce a toxin that prohibits the growth of other plants. Between this and the deep shade created by the canopy, it is very difficult to grow anything under a Norway maple. I have one remaining Norway maple which is GINORMOUS! The Vinca minor is the only thing growing happily under that one. I have been eyeballing it for removal.

To answer some of the above concerns - I first dialed 311 (non emergency) and asked about acquiring a permit for tree removal. They connected me with Phila. Parks & Recreation, which has jurisdiction over street trees. The director himself answered (!); his secretary had called in sick. He said that the arborist is responsible for getting the permit. That explained why it wasn't among the permits that are downloadable from the city's website. He also told me to hire a certified arborist; told me there were horror stories about fly-by-nighters cutting a limb off that crashed through a neighbor's roof and then literally packing up and leaving! He did send me a list of qualified arborists, so I'll be using one of them.

norways also tend to have surface roots.. down thru the decades.. and with their very dense canopies ... might cause nothing to be grown under them ... including potential inability to grow grass .. keep in mind... i am talking 20 to 40 years from now ... also keep in mind.. you can always plan on removal ... somewhere down the line ... my usual deadline was the season i could take it down for free ... as my drop dead decision season ... my favorite trick.. is to google up the latin name ... and then read up. AND .. flip to google images ... to SEE ... the future ... your reliance on common names ... is part of what is holding you back.. to get good info ... ken PS ALL trees can split on the sun side in winter.. its more a function of proper planting .. and proper after care ... and maybe some winter protection for the first few years.. rather than a trait of a given tree ... in other words.. its a stress reaction ... PPS: it would be nice.. to know more about your whole property and goals and stuff ... you have done quite a few posts here .. and frankly.. i hope you have some acreage .... maybe you addressed this in some other post.. or maybe you could start a new post on the whole process ... first to this page to find the latin ... i see it in 1st link ... https://www.google.com/search?q=Deborah+Maple+Tree&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 then using such .. this link https://www.google.com/search?q=Acer+platanoides+%27Deborah%27&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 then to this link https://www.google.com/search?q=Acer+platanoides+%27Deborah%27&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjoiPrgsb7MAhVHmoMKHb-ZB_kQ_AUIBygB&biw=935&bih=745&dpr=0.9

Thank you, Akamainegrower, I'll look into those books. My local library might even have them in stock. I recall there being a few books on shade gardening. JPM995, maybe the stream will keep the roots directed that way, and less vigorously toward the new plantings. As a additional note, I was cleaning out a bed on the other side of our yard yesterday, in part to transplant a purple rhododendron that was growing into some yews, and I stopped to realize that up until last year we had a very old, large Norway Maple that was becoming diseased and was losing many limbs, and so we had it cut down. I had forgotten about it actually. But, all surrounding and indeed right next to this Norway Maple were planted many years ago various yews, arborvitae, boxwood, a few rhododendron, and a bit further away blue and Norway spruces. And these plants did very well under this large tree. The yews for instance grew quite big. Yes, some of the arborvitae maybe weren't as full as possible due to the shade, but for the most part everything took nicely. And everything planted is 15-20 years old. Then, I thought of another area, where we lost again a Norway maple during Hurricane Sandy and similarly where we had planted a lot of shrubs and small trees. While this bed did not coexist with the maple as long as the first bed I've mentioned, only 5+ years, the plants within it seemed to do fine also. And almost everything planted was left-over, second nursery stock, so not always the healthiest plants to begin with. Perhaps the plants did okay simply because they were individual Norway maples, rather than a woods of them, and so received light and water sufficiently. Or perhaps the more mature the tree, the less vigorous the roots (though I doubt this). The only other reason I can think of is in these areas we have always watered them quite regularly, in fact maybe too much. We've reduced our watering the last few years, but maybe that extra care and attention was what allowed these plants to establish themselves well, despite the invasive tree. And maybe once established, they can hold their own. Granted the rhodo I removed yesterday had started to sprout more vigorously this year, without the tree there, but I'd say it still wasn't bad all that time. Whatever the reason the bed managed under the maple, I am a bit more hopeful in being able to deal with whatever trees have to stay. Joe