Help me eliminate some roses!

13 years ago

Hi Everyone,

I'm planning a fragrant rose-only cutting garden for next spring. After combing this forum for postings on fragrant, classic, outstanding roses, I've come up with the following list. However, I've only got space for 24 varieties and need your help to pare down this list.

Please post if any of these do NOT have OUTSTANDING fragrance, lasting power in the vase/garden, or is a major disease magnet (as in worse than the average HT). Feel free to mention anything else I should know.

Additional info: I live in Zone 5 NE, with a Zone 4b microclimate. All of these will be own-root roses from Roses Unlimited. This cutting garden will receive lots of winter protection and full sun. I have realistic expectations and will spray as needed, but would rather not start out by planting known sickly cultivars.

One more thing--I've tried to group these by color. My intent is to plant these 24 roses in 8 groups of 3 spaced 20" apart. I like the impact of mass planting but don't have the space for duplication, so I thought I'd just plant 3 roses with similar colors together so they look like one large bush from a distance. If you want to comment on which 3 (or 6) I should select from each color group, that'd be great too.

Thanks!

Gardenerzone4

Fragrant Cloud (orange)

Folklore (orange)

Arizona (orange)

Chrysler Imperial (red)

Oklahoma (red)

Papa Meilland (red)

Rouge Royale (red Romantica, Charles de Mills form)

Perfume Delight (dark pink)

Charlotte Armstrong (dark pink)

Peter Mayle (dark pink)

Bewitched (rose pink)

Fragrant Memory (rose pink)

The McCartney Rose (rose pink)

Sweet Surrender (rose pink)

Tiffany (light pink/yellow blend)

Secret (light pink/yellow blend)

Amazing Grace (light pink)

New Zealand (light pink)

Frederic Mistral (light pink)

Betty White (light pink)

Royal Highness (pink)

Radiance (pink)

Memorial Day (pink)

Neptune (light lavender)

Barbra Streisand (lavender)

English Perfume (lavender)

Elle (orange pink bicolor)

Color Magic (red pink bicolor)

Bellaroma (yellow bicolor)

Granada (yellow bicolor)

Featured Answer

karenforroses

13 years ago

Like you, I love beautiful roses with heavenly fragrance that I can cut for large bouquets. And like you, my first choice had initially been many of the hybrid teas you list. However, years of gardening in zone 5 Northern Michigan has taught me that (at least for my garden) hybrid teas are tender prima donnas that languish in a few years or die outright. Since then I have filled my garden with hardier roses (180 of them!). My very favorite are the amazing David Austin English roses (I'm up to almost 50 of them). They have been hardy for me and most are much more disease resistant than the hybrid teas. The top of my fragrant list is Jude the Obscure, Gertrude Jekyll, Tamora and Heritage. In warmer climates many of the Austins become huge, but our winters temper the size of most of them to a more reasonable height & width.

Tamora
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Gertrude Jekyll
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Jude the Obscure
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Heritage:
{{gwi:284221}}

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Comments (15)

petaloid
13 years ago
Barbra Streisand and Fragrant Cloud, although strongly scented, would fit into your "disease magnet" category.
phylrae
13 years ago
I'm going to make it harder maybe, because I have some additions to your list!
Everyone has different tastes, ability to smell different roses, experiences depending on area of the country....

I LOVE Rouge Royale and wouldn't be without it, ever!!
Also, Red Traviata. No scent, just very long-lasting strong old fashioned bloom. Thick stems.

Also Red Eden (similar, got @ RU as well) Reports of it balling....I asked Carol there at RU & she said it didn't ball for her, so I got it....doesn't ball for me either. No scent for me though. Luscious blooms in clusters, much like RR & Wm. Shakespeare 2000 (I would definitely recommend!!)

Had Peter Mayle but wasn't as crazy about it as I thought I'd be...gave it away. Blooms were too big for me, opened too quickly, not as floriferous as I had hoped. Maybe I should have given it more time, idk.

If you could get your hands on Star of the Nile there @ RU, you would not be disappointed. Color & scent are incredible!

Tiffany has grown on me, but my nose doesn't detect that incredible scent others claim it has.

Moved Neptune and I think it will be happier...what I've seen this year is nicer than in its first & second years.

I'd also recommend Firefighter and Veterans Honor....both excellent cut flowers. FF a little more fragrant to my nose, though VH smells like Cherry or Raspberry Koolaid to me.

Love Double Delight....huge bush for us, always blooming, incredible scent.

Have Pope John Paul II for a fragrant white....nice! Now wish I had gotten Bolero too!

Yellows....Julia Child is incredible, as is Strike It Rich!!

Recommend Disneyland for a very vivid orange/pink combo....great blooms (though can't remember re:scent). Same for Tuscan Sun.
:0) Phyl
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Krista_5NY
13 years ago
I grow a number of Hybrid Teas, without spraying, and really like them.

My favorites are Sheer Bliss and Pink Promise. They tolerate a cold climate very well, outstanding bloom and vigor.

I grow Fragrant Memory and love this rose, beautiful fragrance and color to the bloom.

Radiance is a great rose, does very well for me.

Frederic Mistral grows larger, almost like a shrub rose. Hardy and great fragrance on large blooms.

New Zealand is great as well, love the fragrance of this rose.

For a red, I like Chrysler Imperial.

The Austin roses are wonderfully fragrant and easy to grow, great in a cold zone for a fragant garden.
Maryl (Okla. Zone 7a)
13 years ago
I'm not in your zone, so unless a rose is particularly winter tender for me I won't comment on that aspect.
-Arizona - beautiful color, very B.S. prone for me
-Chrysler Imperial - Every garden should have one, but as with many older HT's it really should be grafted as it's not particularly vigorous own root.
-Oklahoma- This is almost treasonous I know, but this rose, while very fragrant, is not vigorous even grafted.
-Rouge Royale - I love this rose. Great cut flower and fragrant.
-Sweet Surrender - not vigorous
-Tiffany - Love the fragrance. Best cut when not fully open. Don't know about vigor on own root though.
-Secret - A very good rose. Very disease resistant for me. Thrips love it.
- Color Magic - not vigorous
-Bella Roma - I've had a few bouquets of this from a friend so can't say how it grows, but it surprised me with how pretty it is and how fragrant.
gardenerzone4
Original Author
13 years ago
Hey, I REALLY like all your suggestions and additions! Does make the job of narrowing down harder, but I want to make informed decisions based on the hindsight you're so kind to share.

I forgot to mention that I already have Double Delight, PJPII, Aromatherapy, and Mr. Lincoln.

I have also grown Austins at my parents' home when I was a teen. When I went to college though, most of them succombed to neglect, takeover by my dad's grape/honeysuckle vines, or resurgence of Dr. Huey. I love the romance of the Austins, but I struggle with their cut-ability.

Separate from this cutting garden, I'll also be planting a lot of Buck roses in a separate section not devoted to fragrance and cutting. But that's a conversation for another thread.

Please keep those suggestions coming!!!
Gardenerzone4
karenforroses
13 years ago
Buck roses! Great choice too! My favorite Buck cutting roses are Quietness and Prairie Sunrise. Here's their pictures. I've also attached two pictures of bouquets of Austin roses. They really do make great cut flowers!

Quietness
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Prairie Sunrise
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Bouquet of all David Austin roses
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Bouquet with Austins and other flowers
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predfern
13 years ago
Rouge Royale, Peter Mayle, Frederic Mistral and Tamora all died in my zone 5a garden without winter protection. Liv Tyler also died. The only Romantica that survives the winter here is Bolero. As demonstrated by Tamora, not all Austins surviver here either. I got all of mine from RU. Most Buck roses have little fragrance. Prairie Sunrise suddenly died after a few years. The blooms smelled like magic marker. Rose de Rescht is a hardy OGR with good repeat and a classic rose fragrance. Evelyn and Tradescant also have nice fragrances and survive here. Sharifa Asma is hardy and fragrant. Jude the Obscure also survives but is not as vigorous as Evelyn and Tradescant.
bonny46
13 years ago
Karen, I love your bouquets! Great pictures!
gardenerzone4
Original Author
13 years ago
Thanks, greenhaven. I wasn't sure how to respond either.

Karen, your bouquets are gorgeous. Do the Austin blooms shatter for you as quickly as they do for me? Mine last 2-3 days and fall all over the counters.

I'm revising my list to include many of the roses mentioned above. Forgot to ask if any of the ones on my original list or that others have recommended are extraordinarily thorny (as in you've really taken note of how thorny it is).

I should let everyone know that in a separate part of my garden, on a retaining wall that gets more winter winds and hence will get colder even with lots of winter protection, I'm planting the following. It's going to be a Buck-Austin-apricot themed rose border.

Tamora
Prairie Sunrise
Jude the Obscure
Enchanted Autumn
Distant Drums
Just Joey
Valencia
Lady Emma Hamilton
Sunset Celebration
Heaven on Earth
Over the Moon

Would welcome your comments on any of these too.
Thanks!
gardenerzone4
karenforroses
13 years ago
Gardener, I have found that some Austins shatter more quickly than others (i.e. Heritage). It seems the heavier and more numerous the petals the longer they last in a vase. I cut them when they are just starting to open and they last longer that way. I keep the vases out of direct sunlight and heat also.

I grow Tamora, Prairie Sunrise, Jude the Obscure, Heaven on Earth, and Distant Drums, and they seem to do fine in this climate. I've loved and lost Just Joey 3 times and finally gave up and planted Polka (a climber with the same color and form as Just Joey, but much hardier). I'm not sure about the others on your list.
zippitydoodaday
8 years ago
We have a contemporary home and are doing color blocks just as you are. Therefore, I have (4) roses in each color. I chose fragrant roses with the best vase - these are incompatible traits, which is why it is not easy to find (and the reason why florist roses don't have scent).

The Reds:

Lasting Love (not as fragrant to my nose, but other people smell its fragrance more than I do)

Oklahoma - As someone wrote above...shame on me. Not the best for a cut rose, but I couldn't help myself - the fragrance is heavenly. The Garden Center told me that if I kept it well pruned so that the stems are thicker it will last better in a vase so I thought I would try it.

Mr. Lincoln - Not the best leaves as it is susceptible to powdery mildew, but I will be proactive with the Neem oil and baking soda.

Velvet Fragrance - I have no experience with this one and took a chance because it is a very fragrant English HT.

The Whites:

Sugar Moon - I caved I got (2) of these bushes because it has everything.

Pope John Paul II

Secret's Out

The Yellows:

Midas Touch

Valencia

Golden Celebration - HT yellow roses have the worst vase life of any of the colors, therefore, I chose this category to enjoy a couple Austins that are known for their vase life.

Teasing Georgia

The Lavenders:

Neptune - I got (2) of these bushes because it has everything.

Stainless Steel - I got (2) of these bushes because it has everything.

The Pinks:

Elle

Memorial Day

Sweet Surrender

Chandos Beauty

As for your list...there are some roses that have an excellent reputation for scent that I can barely smell, and I have an excellent sense of smell so go figure....it's a mystery to me. Instead of beating myself up about it I just steered clear of Fragrant Cloud and Bellaroma because they appear to my nose to have a subtle fragrance. Bewitched has an amazing fragrance, but I chose lighter pinks. New Zealand and Secret are great also, but I ran out of room for pinks. I happen to love Veterans Honor and it has an amazing vase life, but they were out of it at the garden center so I chose Lasting Love instead, which has beautiful glossy foliage.
dan_keil_cr Keil
8 years ago
I've grown Folklore for years. It has no fragrance. If you only want 24 pick the English roses. You will get 24 roses that smell great and grow well!
parker25mv
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Barbra Streisand isn't really all it's hyped up to be. The color is just a little splotchy, and the scent smells like lemon disinfectant. But it does grow very vigorously and seems to be resistant to disease. I also don't think the appearance of its foliage is as attractive as other roses, it's a more lighter green and glossy.
dan_keil_cr Keil
8 years ago
I can't get Barbara Streisand to grow. I'm digging it! Neptune is a better plant!

Help me eliminate some roses!

karenforroses

Comments (15)

petaloid

phylrae

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