If you cover the food with other stuff, it's unlikely the flies will know it's there. I've never had flies around my compost and I've composted lots of food items.

I agree with the burying it deep in the pile approach - it solves any potential pest problem. Canned several quarts of beets today so I had a big bucket of beet tops, peels, trimmings, used coffee grounds from the pot, and paper towels. Made a hole deep in the pile nearest the house and buried it.

Now we live out in the woods with armadillos, raccoons, skunks, rabbits, deer, even the occasional bear, and hordes of insects. Nothing has bothered my compost piles except for the grandaddy longlegs and a spider or 2. The garden yes, the compost, no.

As an alternative, perhaps he would be more accepting of the "blenderized" approach - food scraps in an old blender, puree with water, and then more into the pile. More work but it let's you keep composting. ;)

Is he open to reading about composting at all? Many sources that can reassure him about any problems or concerns he has.

Good luck.

Dave

How does recycling bottles and plastic attract flies? I recycle both, along with cardboard, paperboard, and paper, and I never get flies. Unless they contained water to begin with, I rinse out the glass and plastic. When I go to the recycling center, I never see flies buzzing around the recycle bins.

Deanna

Spouses can be such strange creatures at times. Its like you want to look at them with a (you idiot) expression on your face and say: "What part of your brain has told you that I want to walk out in this hot scorching sun to a compost pile swarming with nasty flies, gnats that will fly up my nose, in my ears, and down my throat, hornets, yellow jackets, wasps, and those little helicopter flies that will hover behind my back and bite me on my neck when I least expect it causing so much pain I will almost pee on myself? Did I mention the possibility of coming out here and finding coons, possums, and possibly all the stray dogÂs in the county feeding on the food scraps I put in my compost pile if I am not careful? Oh yes dear, about the smell, do you really think I want to come out here to a compost pile that smells of rotting garbage ripening in, again, this hot humid scorching sun? Maybe I should go to the store and buy a super-size box of "Slap You Smart" and empty the box all around your head. You silly wabbits! Cut your brain off and leave me alone so I can make some black gold in peace. But we canÂt do that (hmmph); I am sure getting the better half to agree to the compost bin was a feat worthy of a newspaper article. Better to go about it a more diplomatic way and "conserve the love" we mutually share.

As Bpgreen states, having a source of browns (leaves are best) to cover and bury the food scraps deeply within the pile should keep odor down and aid in composting. Making sure the food scraps are in small bits will speed decomposition as well. And too, explaining that clean and sanitary surroundings are the goal in composting, not creating breeding ground for vermin and other pests. Yes, education and example are the best tools IMO in creating a tolerable relationship when beginning composting. As many have found out, once our spouses find out how much fun composting is, at times we struggle keeping possession of our compost piles; the complaining spouse takes over. In the mean time, thinking some of the above keeps us sane until that time comesÂ

Blutranes

ROTFLaughing so hard I woke the dog and he's half deaf!! Good one Blutranes!!!

Dave

You could put all the food scraps in a brown paper bag (like a grocery store one, more recycling!) before you bury it in the pile as an additional measure. Might not compost as fast, I guess, all closed off from air, but greens in browns, is good right? and just depends on how fast and hot and stuff your pile is. In any case, if it convinces your hubby to let you put it in the compost versus the trash, it's all good!

But you said "bin/pile," what exactly do you have? A closed bin should do well to gaurd off a lot of things. Ok, exposed food in a closed bin still attracts a bit of flies and such, but at least they are enclosed in the bin and you can still bury stuff and keep a layer of browns on top to keep those at bay a bit. I know lots don't prefer closed bins to open piles, but again, if it convinces the hubby, it's better than nothin'!

Good luck. I'm glad I got a husband with a lot of "interesting" hobbies of his own that I'm allowed mine. :)

Deanna -- bugs in the recyclables is just what he expects -- too many cases of maggots in our outdoor garbage can and ants drawn to soda cans, I guess.

Speaking of the maggots, that's probably part of his distaste.

cantankgirl -- it's mostly a pile but I have a cardboard lean-to sort of giving it some shape/binnish properties. Think large cardboard box forming 3 sides with a smaller piece in front acting as a door. In another thread, I mentioned that this is my first experiment and that I'm going with found items.

blu, can I lace his eggs with Slap-You-Smart? (Love it!)

He just thinks I'm crazy. If he saw that I was also carrying the toliet paper tube out there, I think he would have had me committed. Or at least disconnected me from the internet. :)

Ok, you are definately a girl after my own heart now. My daughter (who is 6 and loves the Wonder Pets, by the way) knows that when we finishes a toilet paper roll NOT to throw it away, that goes in the compost. In fact, she brings it to me behind her back singing, "I have a surprise for you, mommy!"

Doesn't your husband have any weird hobbies? Sigh, good luck with that one! Is he at least frugal? Maybe you could fill him in how much money you are saving on bagged compost/mulch/fertilizer?

Amazing. Some here in reply to Sean state that the presence of maggots in compost is normal while here those same people state they have never had any. The only time you will have fly maggots in your compost is if you get it too wet, because those unwanted critters need a pretty moist environment to grow in. A properly managed compost pile should not have any fly maggots in it. If there are fly maggots in your compost pile it is because the pile is too wet to properly compost.

deanna, maybe a proper plastic type compost bin would make it easier for him to deal with, he will never see the compost at work so he wont be able to look at it and "tskk tskk". also if you compost in an enclosed bin, there wont be any maggots, if the flies cant get in, they cant lay maggots, and just by explaining that to him might make him more comfortable with the whole thing than an open pile he views as a bug infested pile of garbage :)

Amazing. Some here in reply to Sean state that the presence of maggots in compost is normal while here those same people state they have never had any.

Can't speak for the others but it is not what I said, kimmsr. ;) Maggots are not "normal", I agree, but they do happen and so are a part of the decomposition process.

Harmful vs. normal was usually the question in the past. And no, they aren't harmful. In this case her DH doesn't want to see them, so burying the food deep in the pile eliminates that problem.

I have numerous compost bins and piles - some have flies and maggots, some don't. I take more care with the one close to the house just to avoid that problem. But in the bins near the gardens which get less attention to detail and that are open to the rain, yes, flies and maggots do happen. Once it dries out, they leave. No harm done.

Dave

I can't decide whether you need to start composting instantly first, or recycling instantly first. :-)

If you rinse out the cans and bottles, as Deanna says, you don't get flies in the recycling. Indeed, we have our recycle bin in the house!!!! and nothing bad has happened yet :-).

If you add browns and bury the scraps, as bluetranes says, you don't get flies in the compost.

And, finally, as Alfie says: if you composted your kitchen scraps instead of putting them in the garbage, you won't get maggots in the garbage either!

Spouses, sometimes. I mean.

:-)

My spouse was disinterested until he found out we could use compost to improve our lawn. Now he's started a second pile! I like to joke that I tricked him into taking over the composting. I have had black soldier fly maggots and they are gross, but they have a job too, and they don't hurt anything. If you keep the pile drier than I was able to, you shouldn't see any maggots. I'm trying to compost without their help this year. Composting is really a pretty clean process, and quite amazing to witness. Can you keep him away from it until there's some nice finished compost that you can remove from the pile and show to him?

Best,
Pat

oops, my comments were meant for wonderpets not deanna : /

"Some here in reply to Sean state that the presence of maggots in compost is normal while here those same people state they have never had any."

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Neither of the people who posted to this thread saying that they never had maggots posted to the other thread.

Don't let him see ya carrying the stuff out. Keep a little compost bucket under the sink and don't let him know about this either. Wait until he leaves on an errand or something. My husband prefers this. I have convinced him it is a good thing but he doesn't want to know about the details. (Probably best not to let the kids see either otherwise they might tattle. )

And I agree with Pat. I accidentally conducted an experiment in our front yard. Replanted elephant ears on the right side of our front door with compost. Replanted elephant ears on the left side of our front door without compost. Boy Howdy! The diference was very very dramatic and my husband really LOVED the huge elephant ears with the compost so now he understands. He's not thrilled but at least he sees a benefit.

Also, I agree about burying in the pile. Keep lots of leaves handy. Really helps.

We've been married 25 years. Maybe I'm not a very thoughtful spouse but I don't present it as a choice for my husband. This is my house and yard too and I do most of the cooking and I'm going to compost and recycle whether he likes it or not. Not up for discussion. Just read anything anywhere on the subject and you will learn that this is the very least we can be doing for our neighborhood, country and the world.

Mine was pretty avidly against it at first. He about lost it when I brought in the bin I bought at Costco. A little over a year later, he is planning on building me a wooden 2 bin composter for our 10th anniversary this month. Be still my heart. :)

He's still not thrilled with the worm bin I started a couple weeks ago. He's not hopping mad anymore at least, by next year maybe he will be making me a bigger worm bin.

The best way to get a spouse interested in composting is to figure out how composting can be a direct benefit to them.

For example, grow something really special in the garden that needs LOTS of compost and then show the spouse just how much money you are saving by being a DIY.

Worked for me!

PJ (the 2nd)

And yes, maintain your pile by having a decent ratio of browns to greens (3:1), bury deeply any kitchen scraps, and keep the pile as wet as a wrung out sponge. Once it cools down, turning it once in a while seems to help with keeping bugs out of the compost too.

You could always tell hubby what a coworker of mine told hers: "You can let me MAKE compost, or you can be TURNED INTO compost. So which is it going to be?!"

A single bale of straw can last a long time when a chunk of it is used as a 'lid' for the compost. Keep a spading fork or pitchfork near the compost pile. Use it to lift the straw lid off the compost. Add all your kitchen waste, etc). Replace straw lid.

Mind you, this 'lid' is just a mat of straw about the size of a smallish throw rug. Straw doesn't break down very quickly when it's used on top, and it looks nice and blond and shiny for a long time (at least, until it gets really wet).

For recycling your bottles and cans: It's simple -- when you've emptied them, put them with your dirty dishes. Wash them with your dirty dishes. THEN put them in the recycling container. It's the food and sugar on them that attracts insects.

I wash mine with the dishes, then put them in the stacked bins in the laundry room. When the bins get full, I transfer the contents to some plastic garbage bags and deliver them to the recycling center.

Sue

elphaba - you must have seen me sneaking out there tonight while he was putting our son to sleep. Strawberry caps, onion bits, and the 5 or 6 bites of corn leftover from dinner. Oh, and the cardboard paper towel tube.

I'm going to have to work on finding some browns to cover up my additions, though. That seems the hard part about getting started. How can you really bury something in the pile if you don't have a pile to bury in?

Alfie, I'm seriously thinking about setting up some bins for recycling. If I commit to getting the other garbage out on Friday mornings, then it just might work.

maybe try pit composting for a few months? That's where you bury the food scraps in thegarden.

In the fall, when you can collect fall leaves, you can use them to bulk up a pile.

One source of browns that never seems to run low in my house is junk mail. I shred all but the window envelopes (some people shred them, too) along with any paper with sensitive data that I don't file. Right now, I have a bunch of bags of shredded paper because I've been going through my neighbors' bags of leaves.

I take my newspapers to a recycle bin, but if I were short on browns, I'd tear them up and add them to the compost.

Shredding of paper, cardboard, newspaper (well, just about anything, really) speeds decomposition, but if you can't shred, tearing is an alternative, and even just tossing stuff in it will eventually decompose.

Since he associates garbage with bugs, can you tell him that you figured out how to reduce the number of bugs in the garbage? Rinsing or washing containers will eliminate bugs in the recycling, and composting kitchen waste will eliminate the bugs they would have attracted in the garbage can. And if you put out noncompostable organics the day before garbage day (rather than letting them rot in the garbage can all week), the garbage can will not smell so bad. For instance, you can store spoiled food in the freezer for a few days, or wait until the day before garbage day to clean out the refrigerator.

Also, if you pay for garbage by volume, you'll be saving on the garbage bill as well if you can switch to the smallest-size container.

My hubby was against composting too - thought it would smell/attract bugs. But I didn't give him a choice (just said that *I* was going to start a bin), and he reluctantly drilled the holes in garbage cans for me. I shred newspapers (by hand) and tear up paperboard boxes and junk mail to use as "browns", and now that we've had the bin running for a few weeks, I've caught *him* putting large handfuls of weeds in there when he's working on that side of the yard (forcing me to get some shredded browns out there to cover them with). But no bugs, no smells, and no complaints from hubby even when I take the kitchen scraps out. He did put his foot down about the worm bin though, which is required to stay outside. *sigh* I have a compost crock on the counter for collecting kitchen scraps for the compost bins - it has a filter in the top, so no bugs or smells from that either.

I didn't give hubby a choice on recycling either - just whether we paid for curbside pickup or not. I think he realized that if we didn't pay for pickup, I'd be stockpiling things for ages before finally taking it to the respective recyclers, so he agreed to let me sign up for service. ;-) Our recycling bins are in the house, and I just rinse everything out - no bugs at all.

The only way to "prove" to him that composting/recycling isn't a buggy, smelly fiasco is really just to do it...he should come around eventually (and may even surprise you by adding to the piles himself!).

My husband doesn't like my composting, either. I've probably been doing it for 20 years, despite his protests. I do use bins to appease him since he's opposed to piles of stuff rotting in the yard. Occasionally he'll give in and help me. Yesterday, I was spreading a finished batch. I was probably down to the last wheel barrel full when he saw me and came out to help fork from the bin. Only because he felt guilty (it was in the 90s and humid) and I think he feared I'd pass out soon. I was probably close.

Anyway, I do think many spouses will give in and ignore it when they find out it's not all stinky, buggy, rodent-attracting stuff.

Karen

I do not find enough info in the first post to give an opinion on the matter.

I did not put fish, fruit and veggie waste or manure in my compost piles for about a year. Once I had a compost thermometer and could get the core heat up to 130F to 165F, I added fruit and veggie waste and later fish in the center. The fish parts dissolved in less than ten days.

I suggest you purchase a compost thermometer and show your spouse you can produce a high core heat, where you will put the more problematic ingredients. If your core temp never goes above 100 or 110F, I would be reluctant to add this type of materials.

I think it may be kind of a 'guy thing', and I don't know why.

In the book Solviva by Anna Edy, she had composting toilets installed in her house. The women thought it was wonderful, but many men backed off and said they 'would wait'.

Guys are just funny, that's all. It's their nature. I think all the smart ones are here at this forum.

Sue

sue I've been surprised by all the husbands mentioned in this thread who are against composting, and I thought us girls were supposed to be the squeamish ones! :)

trancegemini, ha ha. Of course it's the women who're composting! It's women who've always cleaned up messes and done lots of invisible, behind-the-scenes entropy management and "protected" men from all the squirmy things -- which is basically the definition of traditional "women's work." Not that women do traditional women's work so much, though women do seem to be the default choice when it comes to cleaning up messes.

Once again, this is why pre-nuptial-compost agreements are becoming so prevalent these days. It saves many, many a marriage if these *issues* are properly discussed afore the big event, and no nasty surprises after the knot is tied.

Often, when dating, you can tell from the 12 Signs of Compost-Compatibility® if this thing is going to work. 10 / 12, prolly good to go. Less than that, tell the guy / gal to take a hike.

I'd link to the 12SCC site, but its down as they shift over to bigger servers to handle the June load.

habitatgardener, ah yes now it makes sense, It's definitely that way in my house. I hadnt really thought about it that way before. still, I think maybe us girls are protecting our men folk too much and some of them are becoming a little too delicate for my liking :)

David, you're so right and those compost pre-nups are an excellent idea!

entropy management

I like that - sounds like my whole life!

Like trancegemini said, I can't get all the nay-saying husbands listed here. My husband still calls me princess, but when he sees me deal with compost -- he says "filthy princess" ;-) And to habitatgardener -- yes, mine hates the thought of touching anything that might have bacteria, but I am the one who cleans our bathrooms, and he is the one who eats rotten blue cheese. Although recently he started to volunteer once in a while and cleans master bath, don't know what to think of it all.

I have to chime in, although you guys pretty much covered all the aspects and why we all should compost AND recycle. Recycle -- we take our trash to county dumpster and pay per pound (unless the scale brakes -- then they eye-ball your truck and charge you according to a rate table). Wonderpets -- tell your hubby - does he not know that all those glass bottles and cans, carton papers from every package you buy and junk mail you get daily make up 80 percent of our trash by volume and weight? The other 10 percent is vegetable and fruits waste that gives a rotten smell in YOUR HOUSE by the time the garbage bin gets full enough to take it out. I hated the whiff of smell I would get every time I had to tie the bag. I now have a blender under my kitchen herb table (yeah! No more buying herbs at the store and watch them go bad before you use them) that I use to blend all things before I put them into the pile outside (I know that's optional, but that blender has not been used in years so I put it to a very good use). So now when hubby goes to dumpster he picks up friend's trash too (out of being nice) and we only pay 5 bucks a month for trash and feel good. Can you beat that?

They may call us crazy, but so do some people call crazy people like my husband who buy old used cars, rebuild engines and do their own repairs and oil changes, instead of buying new car every two years and pay triple charges at the repair shops!! They also called crazy the lady who in 1970s thought that dogs can be trained to assist people with disabilities! Seriously, I am reading this book about dog's healing power and helping abilities and she was outright discouraged by every so-called god expert in those days. The notion was that dogs can only be used for defense, had to be handled on the leash only and their aggression cannot be turned off. Can you believe those people?

Me -- two years ago if someone told me I would be doing what I am doing now, I would laugh at them and called them crazy. But look at me now -- I get wood pallets from my office's supply room (they bring crates of paper and I can get one pallet a week). Now that I have this 4x4x4 structure in the yard, turns out my own kitchen waste was not big enough to keep the ratio right, so I asked office kitchen (that cooks breakfast and lunch) to give me their waste -- I got two containers that I now leave with them on rotating basis and they give me a load of kitchen scraps. I also have a neighbor with three horses and huge old trees that shade her entire yard -- can anyone say "fresh manure and bags of leaves"?

Now to the smell and bugs problem -- it does not smell as long as you keep the ratio correct and follow all the other problem solving suggestions you can find on the internet. Bugs -- I dumped a load of manure the other day and forgot to add anything else. Sure thing, next day there were tiny gnats around the pile. The fix -- a bag of those leaves from the neighbor and they are gone! If you don't have enough leaves -- any paper, straw, as they said above.

Recycled Bottles/cans -- juice, milk, water, sauces, soups, -- rinse, not need to dishwash, and that's all there is to it. I have three bins for recycle in the kitchen and we only go to dumpster once a month (read above -- there is not enough trash to drive the truck more often) and there are no, zero, bugs anywhere.

So, wonderpets, I really hope your husband wakes up and let you mind your business. My hubby helps me with setting up the pallets, shoveling manure, etc. but mostly he lets me enjoy it.

there are only two different "occasions" i had maggots in my trash, 1 meat tray was uncovered. 2 hubs chew was in there and he didn't cover it. let me tell ya, they LOVE saliva!! two things i have learned about maggots, they love blood and saliva. but i suppose its cuz of blood being in the saliva. (i think) ohhh ya and rotten potatoe's i forgot about so i had to throw them away. those were the only times!! and it was really gross!! i don't suppose you'll be throwing any of the meat trays, or chew in there will ya?? LOL
ya spouses can be really nuts!! LOL
when mine does the you can't do that, i do the well your smoking grosses me out and i don't say anything about it!! LOL and hon i won't even touch the all that soda pop!! and the chew!! how gross!!! then that usually closes the subject, he realizes that my plants all over is not nearly as bad as his stuff. LOL he's really sweet about that!! :'))

David, if I could meet a single man who enjoys gardening, composting, and worms, he'd be the ideal man for me!! Never thought about a pre-nup though. Can you imagine dates where we'd drive around snagging bags of leaves at the curb? LOL!!

Deanna

I'm a little more than a week into my composting experiment.

I've noticed that I really have to keep the browns out there to prevent flying insects. The rolly's are taking over the bottom of the pile.

The most amazing thing is that I go out there to add something and can't really recognize the food scraps from a few days before and I can see that the shredded junk mail is disappearing though there's not much change in the other browns.

Biggest success so far: Instead of two huge 45 gallon cans for garbage pickup on Friday, we just had one.

Biggest flop so far: a full bag of trash created between Friday AM and Saturday early afternoon.

hey everybody.

I'd expected to be posting on the "what I fed my pile today" thread tonight -- hubby tossed it all in the trash today. :(

If you saw a sealed ice cream bowl filled with watermelon, tomato bits, cucumber peels and such, and knew your wife was composting....think you might be able to figure out that those items were meant for the compost and not the garbage? If I were going to throw them in the garbage, I wouldn't have put them in the bowl so tidily!

argh!

What I could have added today if he hadn't tossed it:
egg shells, tomato bits, cucumber peels, watermelon, moldy grapefruit, banana peel(s), radish tops, grapefruit peel, avocado skin plus the leftover amounts of apple juice from the sippy cups headed to the sink.

He asked me at dinner why I'm so interested/involved in composting and I couldn't really justify myself. It's interesting. It's nature.

What's so crazy is that I had a large (huge) pot filled 2/3 full of shredded paper and cereal boxes. I'd put some tomato and radish bits down inside that, burried well, and even poured juice leftovers in there. Not covered. No bugs, no smell, and he didn't notice it so THAT stash did go out to the pile tonight.

I guess I'm getting discouraged that it's just me at this point.

I have upgraded from the "cardboard lean-to" to hardware cloth. It's oval, made from around 10' and stands between 2 and 3 feet high.

And tonight, I moved things around and lined its insides with craft paper to equalize the moisture. Most of the pile was bone dry, except for a few moist pockets -- hopefully, it'll generate some internal heat. I also have 2 egg cartons (the kind that hold 30 eggs) laying on top as a cover.

I have a pretty compost crock on my kitchen counter. It has an odor filter in the lid, and I line it with a biobag. When it's full, I tie the biobag and dump it into the compost bin. All neat and tidy and enclosed. Then I cover it with weeds or leaves or cut up cardboard or something.

Would something like that work? Spouse wouldn't have to look at it or touch it.

wonderpets, I hope you will continue to compost even if your DH does not yet understand the concept. Sounds like you are really getting into it and I'd like to give you a cyber pat on the back.

Have you discussed with him that using compost in the garden will save money because you will not be buying soil amendments? I'm sure if you do a search here you will find many other reasons to compost and hopefully one will trigger that light bulb moment for your DH. It really is about being a mature, earth friendly resident of this challenged planet. Unfortunately not even intelligent people always get the picture. Hopefully your DH will and he will soon help instead of hinder.

I think my DH did a bit of a double-take the first time he saw a torn up empty toilet paper roll in the compost! He's used to it now. I'll have him shredding stuff soon. Maybe.

Nice to know that I am not alone. Hubby thought I was looney to be building a bin and did not offer to help. Being the girl that I am, I worked around it. I recruited my daughter to hold the side while I screwed together. Lined it with wire mesh and voila!

Fast forward...5-6 weeks....DH came out and asked if I wanted him to turn the pile! At first I said no because I added to the pile 2 days ago and like to leave for 4 days or so. After a few minutes thought I had an epiphany (duh! get him involved then amend if you have to dumbass) and said that I was mixed up and it WAS time to turn. Converted? I think so. We have been having rainy weather on and off for a couple of weeks so I covered the pile with a tarp so it wasn't too wet. I believe he was in there earlier because the tarp wasn't the same....hmmmm....fess up Buster Brown! Composting is great!

hubby saved breakfast bits for me to take to the pile today. egg shells, tomato top, and spoiled lettuce.

:)

Of course, he also said that I had until 20 minutes past breakfast to take it out or else he'd throw it in the trash. I'll take what I can get, at this point!

My wife hates my composting also. She generally puts up with it unless she's mad. That's when she throws banana peels and such in the trash.

As far as hygeine goes, I have had roaches in my compost pile as well as on my tomato plants. I think it is important to keep the greens contained as best as possible using browns.

As far as convincing a non-composter about composting: ask them what the difference is between lettuce on the ground and grass clipping on the ground. How about a carrot? Just becuase it is not food for you does not mean it is not food for bugs and such. No one gets freaked out by weeds, grass and leaves in the yard, nor berries from a tree. But if vegetation that is edible to humans gets out there, suddenly it is a problem.

Maybe the real complaint from non-composters should be that composting will attract homeless people. They are the only ones who will see a real difference between coffee ground and grass clippings. I doubt the bugs see the difference.

Vance