Turn an ornery Valley Forge elm into 10' whip?

16 years ago

Hello,

In the fall of 2003 I planted two Valley Forge American elms. One of them is turning out great, the other has been a big pain in the neck. It does not seem to want to establish a dominant central leader. Last year, several side branches grew like crazy while the central "leader" grew slowly.

Today I was heading off a couple of the side branches that had surpassed the leader. Since I don't have one of those long pruners, this involved me standing on a ladder, hooking the target branches with a pole and pulling them down to clip off the ends. While pulling down the last one, the crotch split (!@?%&!). The leader there is about 3/4 an inch in diameter, and the split has gone well into the leader.

I cut off the branch I was working on, and closed the split with that gardener's velcro tape, but I don't feel comfortable with just trying to let that grow back together as the trunk increases in diameter...I feel the tree should be cut off there.

If I do that, the largest side branches will be higher than the leader again. If I cut them back to be lower than the leader, there won't be much left of them.

Given all this, would it be a bad idea to cut off all the branches and turn this tree into a whip? I hoping that if I do this, the tree will send out several branches near the top, and I can choose one to train as the leader.

The top cut would be made about 10 or 11 feet off the ground, where the trunk is about 7/8 of an inch in diameter.

The tree is leafing out now, and the leaves are about an inch long. It's still trying to start buds where I pruned branches over the winter. Obviously I'd like to do this soon, so the tree doesn't spend any more of its reserves into branches that are coming off.

Thanks for any input,

Alex

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Comments (6)

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
you said:

The top cut would be made about 10 or 11 feet off the ground, where the trunk is about 7/8 of an inch in diameter.

------------

one leaf at 10 feet.. and the whole tree will bend over to the ground ...

at 7/8 of an inch .... i would tend to cut it of at 3 to 4 feet ..... presuming it is NOT grafted above such ... if in fact it is grafted ....

without disturbance of the root mass .. i wouldnt be surprised if it isnt back to 10 feet by fall ... but in the interim.. hopefully the trunk will have correspondingly increased ...

a whip is a whip.. but you dont need a flail.. lol .... you are going to get a big ball of growth at 10 feet.. that the trunk is not going to be able to hold up.. ergo.. make the cut lower ....

to me.. it doesnt matter if its an elm.. or any kind of tree .... just basic pruning for structure ....

good luck

ken
alexander3_gw
Original Author
16 years ago
Ken,

Thanks for the response, but I think you may have misunderstood something. The trunk is 7/8 inch at 10 feet above the ground. At 3 feet it is more like 4 inches, at 4 feet, about 3 or 3.5 inches in diameter.

I'm not opposed to making the cut lower, but is there some rule of thumb about how the maximum trunk diameter at the cut? Cutting the trunk where it is 4 inches in diameter seems like a bad idea to me...cutting it where it is less than an inch seems like an injury that would be easier to recover from.

The growth at 10 feet is 2 years old, so it is quite stiff there, I think the tree could handle the weight of the growth there.

Alex
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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
16 years ago
well you cant go adding facts.. and then tell me my answer doesnt make sense.. lol ....

i dont believe the definition of whip includes trees that are 4 inch caliper ....

any chance at a picture???

you cut it at a point.. where it will be able to support itself for the rest of he summer ... obviously the 4 inch part will support itself ...

every cut will result in stimulating growth at the area of the cut ....

if you make one cut at 11 feet .. and 4 new branches start growing ... i doubt the 7/8 branch will support it.. ergo.. make the cut lower... how low.. i dont know ...

i cant be any more plain.. without a picture.. which i could photoshop.. and actually discuss your specific plant ...

among other things.. we prune to develop a support structure for your tree .... 7/8 of an inch wont support anything ...

ken
alexander3_gw
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks again for your input, Ken.

Let me try to embed some pictures:

{{gwi:349913}}

{{gwi:349915}}

{{gwi:349917}}

{{gwi:349919}}

The arrows, when not labelled, indicate the site of the split.

Suggestions?

Alex
wisconsitom
16 years ago
Alex

As I said in another recent Am. elm thread, these trees are not especially handsome in youth. Surprising in view of the majesty they attain later. And while it's of no use to tell you this now, I think you've been trying too hard to force a growth pattern on a tree that will sort things out on its' own eventually.

I think what I'd do is leave it taped up. There will be a LOT of new wood put down around that injury in coming years-enough to provide strength and stability. Of course, this can't be guaranteed, but the injury has already happened. Letting it handle this itself offers the best chance of a good outcome...IMO. You'll have to judge when it's okay to remove the tape...or it might just rot away on its' own.

+oM
alexander3_gw
Original Author
16 years ago
Tom,

Obviously I can't be sure what would have happened had I just let these trees sort things out on their own. However, the owner of the place that sold them to me (botanyshop.com) said that he got calls from people who let the trees do their own thing, and the "leader" wound up literally bent over to the ground after a year or two. It's hard for me to imagine how a tree would sort this out to become an upright specimen. Maybe one of the side branches would eventually grow upwards? In the meantime the leader is touching the ground, not exactly a handsome tree. Or would the leader eventuially somehow pick itself up? With a cursory knowledge of how wood forms, I don't see how that would happen.

By all accounts, Valley Forge elms need a lot of intervention to stay upright in their youth, much moreso than typical American elms. I suppose it's a combination of this particular cultivar, and the fact that they are propagated from cuttings. From what I've read here, it seems cuttings from some trees can figure out right away that they are a tree (not just a branch), while cuttings from other trees are persistent in behaving like a branch. For whatever reason, this one still doesn't quite get it, even while my other one figured it out quite a while ago.

Alex

Turn an ornery Valley Forge elm into 10' whip?

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Turn an ornery Valley Forge elm into 10' whip?

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ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

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