Replacement for Clotilde Soupert

10 years ago

I have had it with the two CLOTILDE SOUPERT polyantha roses in my garden. I can deal with the balling, but the powdery mildew is relentless. The climbing sport never got this much crud on the leaves. So I'm looking for a replacement. Does such a creature exist? I want petite white blooms in clusters on a compact shrub with decent foliage. Old Garden Rose flower form and some fragrance (moderate to strong) are also desirable. Thanks. Patrick

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Comments (14)

hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
10 years ago
'Little White Pet'.
zeffyrose
10 years ago
Patrick so nice to see your post----I'm sorry you are haveing trouble with CS------The climber you so kindly sent me is still doing fine---it does ball sometimes but when the conditions are good it is a beauty
I thank you again.
Florence
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Sigh, I miss that rose something fierce. The bushes have been disappointing. Very prone to powdery mildew, which didn't seem to bother the climber. The trick with Climbing Clotilde Soupert is heat. She needs consistent summer heat to open up the fat buds. That is why she is so liked in the Old South. The canes are low on thorns, long and flexible. A snap to train. Foliage is resistant to black spot. The small flowers are perfectly quartered like a miniature Souvenir de la Malmaison. Repeat is very reliable - a constant steady stream all season long. As you can see in the first image, the color is absolutely precious: translucent white blushed lilac pink in the center. Last but not least, the blooms have excellent vase life and the long/strong stems hold the blooms straight up.
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Clotilde soupert in a pot?
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I have four in the ground that are pretty big. I have one in a pot by my front door, and I rarely water it but it has adapted to pot life and blooms well with little care. It knows not to get too big in that pot.
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Lisa , it really can be so bad ! I almost wish the thing would die so I don't feel so guilty about it . It smells like heaven when it's doing well !
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Does anything have the same fragrance as clotilde soupert?
Q
Comments (17)
Lilyfinch, Christopher rules! I can delver a speech before Congress on the attributes of Marie Pavie. First and last to bloom every year. One of the things I miss most since I transitioned 8 yrs. ago from ORGs to fragrant modern roses are the polyanthas Marie Pavie and her sport, Marie Daly. There were a number of Marie Pavies in my rose bed, one of which, the oldest, was a dense shrub shaped monster 3.5' X 3.5'. Her spring flush was so lush, you could easily count 300, 1.75" across blooms open at once. She was bulletproof regarding black spot. Midge fly did zap some new shoots, but her profuse blooming nature did not significantly diminish flower production to warrant spraying. The scent....memorable...traveled on the air with ease. The scent was that of Rose Milk brand hand lotion, to my sniffer. Her foliage was a darkish green that set off the white flowers very well. The pre-open buds show some pink at first, but the open bloom is very white. There were flower petal count differences between Marie Pavie from Pickering Nursery (no longer in business), and the MP from Chamblee's. From Pickering the flowers were petal packed. The boss was never visible even when fully open. Chamblee's version had fewer petals, still very double though, but bosses were showing on open blooms. The scent and strength were identical. Now Marie Daly is great, but not exactly a pink Marie Pavie clone. The flowers of Marie Daly are more cupped, but essentially the same size. The foliage is lighter colored and larger. Leaves are bit out of proportion to the bloom, too big, being half again as large as Marie Pavie's leaves. Marie Daly grows more erect, with stiffer stems. I did not find Marie Daly's scent as strong as M. Pavie's, although it is the same Rose Milk Hand Lotion scent. This is by my nose, of course. Reports of M. Daly being stronger scented puzzled me. Marie Pavie was very hardy for me and increased in size every year, but was not tip hardy. This fact had no effect on its lavish yearly show. M. Daly was tip hardy. Both got no protection. There you have it...my experience with the two Maries. Moses
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User
10 years ago
I was going to suggest Little White Pet, too, only I just ordered it so I can't share any personal experience with it.

And I ordered it with.......Clotilde Soupert. LOL.

Any way, Vintage gives Little White Pet high praise, calling it the "ultimate in dwarf polyanthas."
bluegirl_gw
10 years ago
Li'l White Pet was my first thought, too. Also Marie Pavie. My LWP is a new band, just a few months old. It's in a 10 gallon pot now & has beautiful densely packed blooms. Hasn't balled or PMed. Marie had a bit of PM but it's also a young plant & most roses seem to grow out of that, in my experience. I love Clotilde, but I never presume that I'll get to enjoy spring blooms. But once the weather dries, oh, I love those overstuffed balls of flowers with the pink center.

One modern with a real old fashioned look that's been good for me is Pink Chiffon. Some blooms balled this spring, but it's a heavy repeater & the blooms have a good fragrance.
strawchicago z5
10 years ago
Hi Patrick: I'm a fan of your postings ... I read your posts dating back to several years. I love your eloquence on the beauty of Rouge Royal ... almost got that one but I chickened out, for fear of its being stingy in my alkaline clay.

Kim Rupert's Too Cute has Old Garden & musk scent, and whitish-pinkish. Its foliage is CUTE and clean. It's bushy and compact. I keep admiring its pretty foliage even as band, bought this April.

Check out below picture from HMF of Too Cute, grown in cliff's high desert garden, CA. If it looks that good in such a dry & hot place ... I'm sure it looks good elsewhere.

Here is a link that might be useful: Roseseek-bred
diane_nj 6b/7a
10 years ago
Hey there Patrick! Another vote for White Pet. I have had it for 17 years, and it just keeps going! I am not 100% about the fragrance part though (and I know that is important)...
User
10 years ago
I am not 100% about the fragrance part though

I am curious about the fragrance on this one. Vintage says it is strong. At HMF, Murphy's Rose has posted a picture with a caption that says, "strong of fragrance, as wafting as any rose that I have."

Yet HMF says it has only mild fragrance, and other nurseries describe it as light to moderate.

I have a feeling this one is going to depend on atmospheric conditions and individual noses.
dublinbay z6 (KS)
10 years ago
How about Gourmet Popcorn. It's a cutie. Here's the description at helpmefind.com.

Miniature. Shrublet Ã¢ÂÂ¢.
White. Mild fragrance. 25 to 28 petals. Average diameter 1". Small, full (26-40 petals), borne mostly solitary, cluster-flowered, in small clusters, cupped-to-flat bloom form. Blooms in flushes throughout the season. Small buds.
Tall, bushy. Large, semi-glossy, dark green foliage.
Height of 18" to 28" (45 to 70 cm). Width of 18" (45 cm).

USDA zone 5b and warmer. Can be used for beds and borders or garden. Vigorous. Disease susceptibility: very disease resistant.

May not be enough fragrance for you? Other than that, it seems perfect.

Or maybe Green Ice? Mini that sprawls--gets about 1.5 ft high. Good bloomer, but perhaps not enough fragrance either? I have four of them--love them.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Gourmet Popcorn
bluegirl_gw
10 years ago
To me the fragrance is strong. But the blooms are small on a short plant so it involves stooping to smell them. The flowers have been very tidy & attractive & didn't ball like Clotilde's this spring.

FWIW, HMF's descriptions underplay fragrance of those roses I know personally.

National Geographic mag did a big scratch 'n' smell fragrance issue long ago. About 100 smells, as I recall. I got 98 of them. Wish I had the issue still, but the results had women outscoring men & a breakdown of results that was interesting.
lori_elf z6b MD
10 years ago
Lullaby is a sweet little white polyantha that is fragrant and disease resistant. Marie Pavie is another choice.
User
10 years ago
Hmmm. Looking at the pictures at HMF, Lullaby could be the id for my Not-Clotilde-Soupert.

The flowers look right, but on the few pictures showing canes, I can't see thorns. My poly has thorns at every node, in pairs. Seems like that would be a distinctive trait?

Anyway, several more white fragrant polys still in stock at Vintage:

Katherina Zeimet
Snow White
The Gift
White Cecile Brunner

This post was edited by bellegallica_zone9 on Sat, May 18, 13 at 20:53
User
10 years ago
HelpMeFind has some interesting info on Little White Pet. It is supposed to be a sport of Felicite et Perpetue. That rose is a once-blooming cross between sempervirens and a noisette.

Can a once-blooming rose produce a sport with rapid rebloom?
cath41
10 years ago
I didn't notice that you require a polyantha. Would you consider 'Bolero'? It is a white floribunda with an exquisite fragrance.

Cath
Molineux
Original Author
10 years ago
I decided on LULLABY (Polyantha, 1953) which has the most exquisite quartered little pure white blossoms with emerald green button eyes that remind me of a miniature Madame Hardy. I've actually grown this rose before. I shoveled pruned two of them years ago because their blossoms were only slightly fragrant, and replaced them with Clotilde. Well after years of putting up with mummified foliage I'm going back to the old standbys. I don't use these roses for cut flowers so the slight fragrance isn't an issue anymore.

I decided against Marie Pavie and White Pet for different reasons. I have a cottage garden and prefer roses with Old Garden Rose flower form (either globular, flattened rosette, or quartered), which fit in better with the garden design. Marie Pavie's buds are more high centered than I normally like. The mature blossoms are also rather formless and disheveled looking. As for White Pet the growth habit is a wee bit more low and spreading than the petite bushiness that I'm looking for in the typical Polyantha.

Thanks also for the Floribunda and Shrub rose suggestions but I really need a Polyantha for the two spots in the front of the flower bed. The rest of my roses are big Austins and Bourbons. I like the contrast between the clusters of little rosettes on the Polyanthas with the luxurious decadence of the larger flowered cultivars.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lullaby at HelpMeFind Roses

Replacement for Clotilde Soupert

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zeffyrose

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Replacement for Clotilde Soupert

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