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Soil, Compost & Mulch

kelp meal vs. alfalfa meal

15 years ago

i've read that alfalfa meal is about the best organic fert. for a lawn, and i've been using it for over a year now, seems to be working, i know that the tea i make definitely works, my soil is actually sustaining worm life, something i once thought would take years but took less than 1.

anyway, would alfalfa meal be better for a lawn than kelp meal? and would kelp meal be better for a veg. garden than alfalfa??

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Comments (9)

dchall_san_antonio
15 years ago
I think a variety is probably best and no single material is best.

Where did you read that alfalfa is best for a lawn? I've been reading organic forums for years and have never read that.
swanz
15 years ago
A bit pricey to be using on a lawn IMHO.
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what is shelf life of alfalfa, kelp meal, etc.?
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Ellen, I think yours has gone bad. You better not chance it, send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly. Depending on how it's kept - open bags/air tight buckets - will have a lot to do w/ it. The heat is going to be more detrimental than the cold. If this is the only storage option you have I'd limit the qty to one or two years supply. Or maybe find a neighbor to help split the cost. Wheat stored in air tight canisters is supposed to be good for 7-8 years. I've made bread from my moms wheat storage that she bought a ton of in the 70's and it tastes great. I don't know if it still has all of the nutritional value though. I'd think high N stuff like alfalfa and kelp meal would not keep as long as grain.
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I use the pellets rather than the meal, and have good results. Be sure to check if the pellets have added salt; many of them do, and it can be an unwanted addition to your garden. The pellets I use are composed of alfalfa and molasses. If I put them on the surface of the soil, they are reasonably along the way to decomposition in a couple of weeks. If I bury them, they disappear within a few days. I have also found that dogs can be quite fond of alfalfa, both the plain meal and the pellets. I water down the pellets as soon as I put them out. The initial watering really breaks up the pellet structure quite a bit, and at least makes it more difficult for a dog to get to as much of it. By the way, local feed stores carry a wide range of these pellets. Some also carry dry beet pulp mixed with molasses. It is also a reasonable nitrogen source. Renais
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Jeri made me laugh, that was funny! Humor is badly need in this forum. Dry air is made of 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, and the rest of argon and carbon dioxide. That explains why poor drainage wet clay soil can turn roses yellow ... the roots can't breathe. My Eglantyne rose was yellowish, until I fixed the drainage. MiracleGro potting soil comes with enough nitrogen for 3 months. I had one geranium in MiracleGro and was annoyed that the leaves are so dark green with few flowers (I don't fertilize that pot). There's one pot that I ran out of MiracleGro and put 1/2 garden dirt in ... I actually like that geranium better: it was shorter, more blooms, and lighter green leaves ....easier on the eyes. A friend asked me about phosphorus, so I'll post the info. here: The NPK value of oak leaves is 0.8 /0.35/ 0.15 Maple leaves is similar to that, so it's twice higher in nitrogen than phosphorus. Once decomposed, the value of phosphorus rises. Most decomposed organic matter is high in phophorus, such as sewage sludge at NPK of 2/ 1.9 / 0.3. Animal tankage (manure without the fat and gelatin) with NPK of 8 / 20 / 0. Other high sources of phosporus are rock phosphate and bone meal with NPK of 4 / 21 / 0.2. Drawback of rock phosphate and bone meal: they can only be utilized at pH at or below 7, according to University of Colorado Extension. Since I'm lazy in pruning I would rather sacrifice top growth for more root and flowering, or less nitrogen and more phosphorus. Leaves and stem store plenty of nitrogen, and unless the plant is completely yellow, there's no need for nitrogen. Even then, fixing the drainage and fluff up the soil with organic matter helped my roses to green up without the need for chemical nitrogen (also highest in salt). Adding air to the soil by making it fluffy is the cheapest way to give nitrogen to roots, considering that dry air is made of 78.09% nitrogen. Composting scraps from kitchen is another cheap source of nutrients, considering Cantaloupe rinds has NPK value of 0 / 9.77 /12.0 ... high in phosphorus and potassium. Potato skin has NPK value of 0 / 5.18 / 27.5 ... also high P and K. Nothing beats banana peels in potassium, with NPK value of 0 / 3.25 / 41.76. Potassium is need to counteract the salt in manure, and to fight diseases. This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Wed, Feb 20, 13 at 11:48
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Comments (4)
Meal from my feed store is straight alfalfa, no additives. If you don't see what you want, just ask at the counter. Most feed stores are happy to order for you at no charge with their next order from their distributor - that's what mine does and they were even familiar with it's use on roses. Next time, I think I will get the pellets though. The meal is so fine, it tends to fly around when scooping and distributing.
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rj_hythloday
15 years ago
My lawn gets a heavy mulch of OPBL in the fall, last fall I had lots of free hay so that was mulched in also. I've put UCG's on the whole lawn a section at a time. I also apply the teas for the garden to the lawn.

I'm pretty sure that kelp has more of the micro nutrients needed by a garden, but like DC said a mixture is always going to be good. As long as you don't mix up TNT.
Kimmsr
15 years ago
Given the prices I'd not use either one. When I did use them I saw no difference in the plants where they were used than where my own compost was used.
west9491
Original Author
14 years ago
I shoulda mentioned, dchall, i was referring to the 'meals' that i have read that alfalfa was best. what would you recommend fertilizing with? i have been shredding leaves into the lawn, my composting is pretty much tied up in taking care of my landscape plants and veg. garden currently.....

and alfalfa (based on using the recommended amount per sq. ft. is quite comparable to using commercial synthetic and organic lawn fertilizers: where a bag of alfalfa pellets runs me about 12 bucks for a 50 lb bag....kelp meal on the other hand, IS expensive, i've seen it on the net for about 35 to 40 bucks for a 50 lb bag, that price doesn't include shipping.
coffeehaus
14 years ago
If you're looking to fertilize turf in a conventional manner I think that soybean meal would be best. If you're recycling clippings and adding shredded leaves, the relatively high amount of nitrogen in SBOM would help to hasten the breakdown of the leaves and feed the organisms in your soil. Kelp is quite pricey and high in micronutrients. Your leaf applications should help in that regard. In my area conventional fertilizer prices have risen to the point that using SBOM is pretty cost-competitive with the synthetics with all of the organic benefits not enhanced by the synthetics.
west9491
Original Author
14 years ago
i am mulch mowing, and, i'm gonna try to mulch in some leaves about once a month.
the prob. w/ soybean oil meal is that i can't seem to find it around.....but i can get alfalfa right down the road, how much better is sbom??

yeah, i need the organics, my soil has very little organic matter in it, until i can redo the lawn and get some organic matter deeper down into the soil mechanically, i'll provide microbes w/ some materials to do it for me.
anubis_pa
14 years ago
I'd never heard of SBOM so maybe it's not the same thing as soybean meal, but from what I understand soybean meal has approx twice the equiv N per pound as alfalfa, so less should be needed on a lawn.
coffeehaus
14 years ago
SBOM is soybean meal. It is the high-protein by-product following the removal of the soybean oil. It is roughly twice as high in nitrogen as alfalfa meal and it can be purchased at any farm feed store. My farm coop is Southern States but in your area it might be AGWAY or possibly a private concern.

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