webkat you are great! what don't you do? it is amazing what dogs can learn isn't it? i raise and train service dogs and it still wows me to see them turn on and off lights, take off socks and do so many other things for physically challenged people. thank you from all the animals you helped and the people you teach to be kind. sandy

I like this here. Good stuff, Kat. I did gundog rescue outside of Cleveland for decades. Had up to 100 great pups at a time, in an acre of kennels. It's a great way to help critters.

Webcat, what a sweetheart you are !! My furbaby sends hugs to you.

Here in good ol' "puppy mill capital" of the world, we have our work cut out for us...

There is never a day when an animal isn't in need...really stinks!!

I find it shocking that there are parts of the country with "pet shortages", but we hear that all the time....wishing we could ship ours to them...

I have to tell you, I WOULD DO that!! In fact, that is one of my goals is to see that become a reality some day...even if I don't do it...hope somebody does...

If we dispersed our "influx" out to areas of the country with "shortages", problem solved...

Of course spaying/neutering is always an issue...

Hey - here we are in "conversations"! That was fast, someone has magic fingers!

I have a kitty who was rescued and fostered. She is the best socalized kitten I have ever adopted. Hats off to everyone who participates in these programs.

We do our part to support Cat Welfare! A great no-kill shelter that holds a garage sale every Saturday to fund their various programs. I love visiting and socializing the cats waiting for homes.

I could just kiss-kiss those precious noses on WebKat's babies. Those faces are priceless!

hollywog, your situation sounds like mine, we must be in a prime spot for dropping off animals, it's rural, and I guess they see other animals here. Most recently, three sweet, beautiful kittens were dumped, two little black-and-white twins ("Moonlight and Sonata") and a calico with a checkered pattern on her back ("Checkers"). I don't mind keeping them, except for the cost of neutering. I'm thinking about asking our vet for a "quantity" discount, since my neighbor's barn cats have figured out I feed cats! We also have a Siamese tom who owned the house before we did, it took him two years to warm up to us, but he's a sweetie now.

This summer, our other neighbor's house burned down, and they moved to town, taking most of their pets with them. But they left their white German Shepherd, I guess because she was pregnant? Anyway, she had the pups somewhere in the woods, and was looking pretty scrawny. One day she disappeared, and about a week later, the pups came out of the woods looking for her. I was able to get one that day, they were about five weeks old, terrified of people and able to hide so well I couldn't find the others (I spent two days looking). About three weeks later, I found another one, and she was absolutely pitiful. I don't know how she had survived, she was half the size of the first pup, literally nothing but bones. It was like trying to catch a possum, I had to run her down and use my coat to grab her, she was just so scared. I was crying carrying her back to the house. Happy to say that both of them are healthy, BIG pups, and my remaining neighbor has adopted both of them, so I still get to see them and play with them! The girl's ears are finally standing up this week, I am so proud of those silly pups. I just hate to see anything abandoned.

webkat, those babies are beautiful! I didn't get to see Luna, I'll bet you're so proud of her!

singingcrk - Have you tried the Friends of Animals if it's available in your area? While it's not free it cuts down considerably on the cost of neutering and spaying. They also have local clinics in our area on occasion that offer either free or low-cost medical treatment for pets (rabies and such). That's a shame that you've got to bare the cost of these animals.

I used the Friends of Animals for my dog (German Shepherd) and my two cats. You have to use their participating vets. I didn't have any problems with my dog. However, a few years later I got my cats fixed and the vet butchered something during their operations. I don't know what he did but they cried when I touch their tummies. :( I thought they just needed more healing time but it never went away. They were fine with tummy-touches prior to going in and to have them both react funny had to be from the operations. While not the fault of FoA, do check around for references on vets the same you would an MD.

Here is a link that might be useful: Friends of Animals

Thanks, shimla, I will check that out. It seems like they have a low-cost month around here, usually in February, where some of the vets will participate. They have monthly low-cost days in my mom's county, I sometimes have her take them in. Right now I am hemming and hawing, trying to decide who should go first!
I made a deal with my neighbor, if he would take the second pup (he was getting attached to her) along with the first, I would take care of the neutering. He needed the company, and it's nice for me to be able to see them, plus they are good with the kids (very important!).

My rescue web site is in serious need of some updating (couple years behind), but what else is new... :o)

I am also moving it to my SA server....so many of the links are broken or inactive....

But, the adopted pages are there...not all of my rescues, but the one's I did get pics of (post digital camera) are on there. I haven't updated in a while, so the Valley Girl puppies aren't even on there yet....

Eventually I will have all of the old ones scanned and entered...

But, if you want to take a peek:

http://serendipityacres.com/KCPN.html
http://serendipityacres.com/KCPN_Adopted.html

I place my fosters on Petfinder.com now instead of my site...so I am not using that portion (foster pages) anymore...

Shimla... it IS INDEED sad all these stories of abused and neglected animals. The place where the dog had the axe taken to it's leg and tail is notorious for this kind of act. My twins are 10 years old and they are raising money to donate to that place because it's so bad all the time. It is commonplace for dogs to just be rounded up and shot or just to be shot while they are running around. Others are caught in traps and I've been told that puppies are often used by gradeschool kids as a baseball (hit across field by a baseball bat) or draged behind bicycles "because it's fun". Here is my kids' webpage about their fundraiser:

http://www.geocities.com/knottyceltic/pennies4pups.html

And oddly enough, this thread came about only hours before we went to pick up our brand new baby! :o) We applied to adopt him after Christmas and he was adopted out already but lady luck was on our side and we picked him up last night. Here is his webpage:

http://www.geocities.com/knottyceltic/ourbaby.html

Barb in Ontario
PS...thanks for pointing me in the right direction Donn :o)

Knottyceltic!

Congrats on your new family member!!!

He is a cute little toot!!

Yes, we won't hold dogs (or puppies) for people very often, especially if someone else is waiting in the wings...

I am sure it was obvious that you were very interested in that particular puppy and the rescue organizations like to see that....you weren't a "whim" adopter. We are careful to look for those potential adopters with, what I like to call, the "cute and fuzzy puppy syndrome". The novelty will wear off many times and when puppy grows out of the "cuteness" there they are, right back in the shelter system. It is amazing how often this happens.

I have held puppies before. For example if they are going out of town, but usually I offer to "baby sit" if those are the circumstances.

All you rescue folks... I need some advice.

The pup (Lake) is having what I imagine is "stress poo/diarrhea". Reason I know it's not normal is that we witnessed him having normal poos at the rescue. I've never had a rescue dog before, only "purposely bred" dogs so I've not seen stress poo before. I know from the hamstery that hamsters get it though so I'm sure dogs are no different. He's eating and drinking fine but he has to poo often. I take him out after every nap and he goes soft "pudding" poo twice in a row, then we come in cuz it's bitter cold but he needs to go back out for one more pudding poo right after he warms up again. Poor little guy. Between the pooing and the frigid cold I feel sorry for him. Anyway, we are using the same food that he was eating at the rescue (Science Diet Puppy small bites). He's eating and drinking normally... I'd just like to get him settled (emotionally and his tummy) so that potty training isn't so negative an experience for him. My question is, does the rice and chicken trick for diarrhea really work? Do you recommend it? Or should we just wait it out? I just feel so bad for his tummy b/c he's gone so many many times today already and it can't feel good with a hernia too. He's having a good long nap right now so that's good. Up until now his naps were only about 10 minutes b/c of all the pooping and peeing. He's really a good baby. He tells me every time he has to pee OR poo by sniffing the ground or going to the door and whining and he's only just turning 9 weeks old. Any advice to help calm his nerves AND his tummy?

Barb in Ontario

Ok, it is highly possible that he has a case of Coccidiosis...easily treatable, but I would take a sample to the vet and have them check for it...you might want to do that right away...dehydration can get pretty serious very quickly, too.

Tell me this, does his poo look a little bit slimy?? I know this is a gross subject, but I have gotten to the point that I can tell if a dog has whipworm just by the way they behave. Once you have seen a hundred cases of coccidia, you know what to look for...I just hope that is what it is....

Have you called the rescue people to ask them if the puppies have had a fecal examination?? Vets will normally perform these for free for rescue groups (at least mine does).

It can get pretty bad with the little ones...I have almost lost a couple to it. I keep the drug for it (Albon) on hand at all times, now...

Something you could do for now, though is give him some yogurt...it will settle his tummy a bit...

If you start him on Albon, don't give him yogurt at the same time...

Even if his poos firm up a bit, doesn't mean he has gotten rid of it. Stress allows the Coccidia to "swarm and multiply" thereby causing more apparent symptoms like runny poo.

Please keep me posted!!

Oh, and by all means...give him some rice and chicken...
I wouldn't feed it as a meal, but mix it with his other food....

Trying again...wouldn't post the first time.

I'm sorry I should have explained that the rescue was very good and keeps files on all the babies. The file came home with me and he's had a vet exam (full body - found an umbilical hernia which will be repaired during his neutre), fecal smear which was negative (though I know that could have been false and will get tested again this week) as well as his first set of shots, notes by the doctor as well as from the rescue.

I think b/c of the sudden change in the stools it's just stress but we will heed your advice and get another smear done. He had 2 good solid normal poos while we were at the rescue and another good solid one when we got home here last night. It wasn't until morning that the stools started getting gradually more wet, frequent and more loose over the day. The worst the stools got has been like "pudding" or "formed pudding". I got rice while I was waiting for replies.

Thanks so much and I will update how things are going.

Barb and "Lake"

Even the best rescue group can miss something...this is proven time and time again here...It also has nothing to do with the the fact that he is a mix...once you get past all this puppyhood business, my bet is that he will be perfectly healthy for the rest of his life!!

Make sure they test for Coccidia...sometimes they don't check for that and just look for worms...

You know usually stress isn't the cause the diarrhea, it is usually something that was already there and the stress has lowered the immune system just enough to set it loose....

Does that make sense??

Are his eyes clear and sparkly (no gunk)?
Is his nose runny at all...dripping??
What color are his gums? Should be a nice pink, not too pale..
Does he feel extra warm? (normal is around 101)
How many rounds of shots has he gotten? In consideration of his breed mix, I would make sure to time his last distemper/parvo vaccination to be given after his 16th week of age (at the same time as his rabies vac).

Did he get a vaccination immediately before you took him home?

How old did you say he was??

Do keep me posted...I certainly get anxious when I hear the words "sick puppy"...aak!

When I foster puppies, I always have my vet tech/or vet if necessary on speed dial!! LOL!! I have the whole routine down...

Make sure they test for Coccidia...sometimes they don't check for that and just look for worms... Yes we will indeed have his stools checked for Coccidia, thanks :o)

You know usually stress isn't the cause the diarrhea, it is usually something that was already there and the stress has lowered the immune system just enough to set it loose....

Does that make sense?? yes, totally, the same thing happens with hamsters but mostly Syrians. Syrians get wet tail because something shocks their immune systems when they are moved long distances. The bacteria are there but it doesn't strike them hard until they are stressed.

Are his eyes clear and sparkly (no gunk)? his eyes get gooky when he goes out in the bitter cold but otherwise they are clear and no sign of infection, scleras are white throughout
Is his nose runny at all...dripping?? No,no drips at all, dry most of the time and cold and damp when he comes in from the cold but dries up again

What color are his gums? Should be a nice pink, not too pale.. very nice pink and well hydrated...been checking for that

Does he feel extra warm? (normal is around 101º) no, normal

How many rounds of shots has he gotten? one round of shots on December 19th

In consideration of his breed mix, I would make sure to time his last distemper/parvo vaccination to be given after his 16th week of age (at the same time as his rabies vac). ok...what is the rationalle for that, just curious

Did he get a vaccination immediately before you took him home? no, almost a month ago

How old did you say he was?? 9 weeks

Do keep me posted...I certainly get anxious when I hear the words "sick puppy"...aak! well, I really don't think he's sick with a fever or anything but he could still have something in his stools, so we'll have that checked. He's playing like a kitten, pouncing on sticks and leaves and chasing after toys and generally either getting into trouble or looking for attention...typical puppy stuff. He is napping much better now. He'll nap for a full hour now whereas he was only taking 10 minute cat naps before and crying a lot. Today there was no crying at all and he is back on his food eating about 50/50 steamed rice and dry chow. One thing I thought of was that darn oil tablet the lady gave him at the rescue. I don't know how long she'd been giving it to him but those things are big and I'm sure it was like giving him cod liver oil twice a day. I've discontinued that entirely and today he is having better formed poos and not feeling the urgency to get outside. Ugh! It's a horrid day today... freezing rain so the deck where I was letting him out is thick with ice and the poor thing is terrified. I am too...afraid of falling that is so now I have to trapse him through the garage and out the back garage door onto MORE ice but at least if he falls he will fall only the ground and not off the edge of the deck.

I'll pop back in with at "Pupdate" later and let you know what a second slide of his stools shows.

Thanks so much,

Barb & "Lake"

When I foster puppies, I always have my vet tech/or vet if necessary on speed dial!! LOL!! I have the whole routine down...

This is the funniest thing. I was just on the Furry Friends Network website looking at the dogs. I was just looking because on Sunday we are going to be adopting a Lab/mix puppy named Jack. We already have a black lab that is a little over a year old and thought he would like a friend. We got Cole from a breeder so we thought it would be a good idea to rescue one this time. The boys will be about a year apart in age. I am a little concerned about Cole because he is extremely spoiled. He is a 70 lb lap dog! He plays well with my sisters Westie so I think it will be okay after he gets used to the puppy. If I knew how to post a picture I would. The foster parents took one at Christmas of Jack with a santa hat on. To all those who foster the pets I say "kudos to you." What a big job. Have a great day.

Congrats on your adopted pup! I'm sure the dogs will get along fine. Adopted/fostered animals are often already used to being around other animals so if your other dog gets jealous the pup will know how to react.

Barb

Lake who is now called "Basil" (Basil Wrathbone) was to the vet today and it is suspected to be Giardia. One of the adult dogs taken in the same puppy mill raid, also tested positive for Giardia so they are going to go ahead and treat Basil with a 5 day course and possibly re-treat him just to be safe b/c of the amount of loose stools he's had in the past 4 days. He has 2 loose stools every hour throughout the day and night and first thing in the morning he has 3 loose ones back to back at potty time. The poor little guy is doing pretty good all considered. So he's on FBZ for five days and then back next week for his second round of shots and possibly another round of FBZ. If nothing else he will have the cleanest intestines of any puppy on our street :o/

Oh well... at least something is being done. Right now he's been still playful and active but I could see him going downhill if this persisted.

Barb and Basil (the puppy formerly known as "Lake")

Yes, Flagyl is something else I keep on hand in the old medicine cabinet...we don't see nearly as much Giardia as Coccidia, but both are equally as sneaky.

Good thing they gave him some meds..... :o)

An answer to your question I missed earlier about vaccinations after the 16th week of age.

I always recommend this on larger mixed breed puppies (although it is more important with Rotties and Dobies).

Here is the philosophy behind it....

The puppy can have what is called passive immunity (that which is borrowed from it's mother during nursing). Since that immunity is already there, the puppy's body can actually disregard the vaccination "challenge" that we introduce. The body will simply ignore it....

Now as the puppy gets older this passive immunity wears off and then it won't be protected from either the mother's immunity or our artificially introduced methods. The time that the puppy's passive immunity wears off is indeterminate (and different for each puppy), but to be on the safe side, we recommend the last shots to be after the 16th week (somewhere between the 16th and 20th) week as this would be the outside of the time frame where the passive immunity would be gone (depleted from their system), thereby certainly allowing and responding to the artificial "challenge" we introduce.

It is basic insurance for immunity.

Rounds of shots are necessary because we never know exactly when the passive immunity will wear off and somewhere in there we will catch it...If the timing isn't right and the artifical vaccination doesn't take, then there is hopefully still sufficient passive immunity to carry it through another two weeks or so.....does that make sense??

One thing I would recommend, though, is to be very cautious about letting him spend time around other dogs/puppies (ie.. at a large Petstore where multiple dogs/puppies have passed through) until after his last vaccs. There could be a period of time until his last vaccs that the artificial did not take and then passive immunity wears off and this would be a brief period where he is completely defensless against diseases.

BTW...the Parvo virus can live for at least 2 years out of a host (in the ground or elsewhere)....pretty scary.

Be wary of places where they do pet adoptions, especially....

And, yes, if you are wondering, I am a VERY over-protective foster mom...but hey...better safe than sorry...

I have seen both Distemper and Parvo in action, as well as a variety of other mystery diseases....I do not wish it on ANYONE...

Well today was a new day to be sure. Rather than having about 18 poos a day he has only had 4 poos today and they have looked normal and only a tiny bit "wet". I have been doleing out his fluids in increments though. Not restricted at all just given in small doses so that he's not gorgeing and then going all loose again. The vet called to see how he's doing but I missed the call so I will call back and let her know the good news. His 2 round of shots was due yesterday and they will be delayed anyway until he's 100% again so by the time he gets to his next round they will be late anyway. Thanks for the explanation. And yep, we know to keep him only on our property and away from any animal feces until he is fully suited up with his shots. I asked the vet about rabbit and squirrel poo and she said she's not concered with that, that all dogs eat rabbit poo like it's candy and that although some parasites can cross species that it's much less likely than canine to canine infection/infestation.

Thanks,

Barb and the "Baz-man"

Oh Barb!!

Sooooo glad he is better!!! By the way, I really like the name!!!

The main thing they will get from rabbit poo is coccidia...rabbits notoriously have it.
Between that and gnawing on my saplings, I am truly starting to "get" where Elmer Fudd was coming from!! LOL!

My vet cracks me up...seeing so many rescues he gets to "see it all" and it always keeps him jumping!! No telling how many times he has scratched his head and said "this is a new one for me"... He certainly has performed some miracles, though...you wouldn't believe some of the stories...

Thanks for keeping me posted!! Give that baby a big hug and a smooch on the head for me!!

Hey Barb!

How is Basil!!!

Do you have any current pics??

Basil is all better now and we are just waiting to make sure he is good and healthy for his second round of shots. I think I will take him for them this week as he hasn't had any further loose stools. He's gaining weight like a champ too...likely lost a lot of fluid weight with the diarrhea but he gained 3 lbs last week alone. He's a very active boy and very vocal (to our surprise) as we've never had a vocal dog before. He's also a mischief maker. Mostly benign stuff, like stealing blankets and shoes to get attention but on occasion he shows his VERY mischievous side and puts his teeth on the good furniture just to test us. He doesn't gnaw on it, he just puts his teeth around it and "touches" it with his teeth to see what we'll say. It's finally winter here and he is LOVING the snow. He doesn't even want to come inside and we have to coax him in even when he's shivering. I've been able to talk to 3 of the families who adopted his siblings and it's interesting to know that all 4 pups share the same propensity for vocalizing, yawn frequently making loud noises and a mischievous in the same way (all 4 of them). Basil is from a litter of 10 and considering they came from very poor conditions, they are all big healthy puppies.

I find Basil is very hard to photograph so I don't have a great deal of pictures of him but I have added pictures of some of his siblings to the webpage, here:

http://www.geocities.com/knottyceltic/BasilWrathbone.html

Barb & Bazzy

Hey Barb,
Basil is the name I want to use for the next cat that adopts me!
Best of luck with your Baz!
Ei