Patrick, I wish I could tell you. Niles was one of my roses that turned out not to even be a tea rose. I was sent a rose with long sprawling canes that bloomed up and down the canes labeled Niles Cochet. Unfortunately, one of many mislabeled roses from the same vender.

I still need to have this question answered. Somebody please respond.

Thanks,

Patrick

I can't smell it at all Patrick, but that don't mean much, as I can't smell
most of the Teas.

The height here won't help you, either, but fwiw, Niles Cochet is about
5 ft tall in my garden.
The very old plant in San Juan Bautista (photo you've all seen) goes
easily to 10 ft., even though it is pruned most years.
But that one probably has roots that go halfway to China.
Smaller plants in the back yard of that house, clearly grown from
cuttings taken from the big one, are more like 5 ft.
(But they, too, are probably pruned.)

Jeri

Thank you Jeri. Would you say Niles is faster/taller growing than Duchesse de Brabant?

Thanks,

Patrick

Patrick, between the two Niles grows quite a bit wider. It has a grow style much like Mrs. BR Cant, tall and wide. MJS is a five foot tall bush and four feet wide. The speed of growth is fairly close between the two, Niles grows out at the same time he is growing up while MJS tend to grow up first and then spread out.

I have not noted much scent from Niles either but the color is quite nice.

Lance

Would you say Niles is faster/taller growing than Duchesse de Brabant?

*** Yes indeed.
And in OUR area, where powdery mildew is a big problem, Niles is far, FAR
more disease-resistant.
In your area, where blackspot is king, I do not know.

Jeri

I can't smell anything on Niles, but like Jeri, I can't smell many teas. It grows MUCH faster for me than Duchesse de Brabant. One of my more vigorous own root plants.

Elaine

There's a 14-y-o Niles Cochet at the Stagecoach Inn, in Newbury Park
(A few miles inland from my location.)
That poor rose got planted in a spot in the garden that is almost always
boggy, which it should hate, and it is pruned every January a bit harder
than I would choose to prune it.
Nonetheless, it never shows a speck of disease, and blooms its heart
out through the year.
In my garden, 10 miles or so closer to the sea, Niles can have problems
opening. But that problem is not in evidence at the Inn.

In fact, Niles is a rose with which I can find no fault.
(Well, most rose judges wouldn't be excited about it.)

Jeri

I have a Niles Cochet waiting to be planted and am always glad to hear discussions about it. Lisa at Countryside told me that she was told by the Bermuda rose people that they think Niles is the Bermuda rose they call Aunt Jane's Mystery and they consider it a small climber.

If it's as wonderful as Maman Cochet or WR Smith, I will be very happy with it.

Thank you so much! Your comments are EXACTLY what I needed. As many of you know I'm putting in a Tea Rose garden for my elderly mother. For the most part the garden is shaping up nicely, with the exception of the red & white bed. At the moment I have Madame Joseph Schwartz, Cramoisi Superieur, and Moore's Striped Rugosa. MJS is jaw dropping beautiful (both the flowers AND the bush) and intensely fragrant to boot. She stays. CS and MSR on the other hand are problematical. Cramoisi Superieur has rich, luscious blooms that smell like cherry lifesavers candy but alas the bush has the most awkward, wiry canes that I've ever seen. The foliage also doesn't cloth the bush very well. It looks terrible in mom's formal rose garden. So I'm moving it to another part of the back yard where it will grow with some herbs and tomatoes. Moore's Striped Rugosa is completely defoliated and naked. It may be a Hybrid Rugosa but it sure isn't resistant to black spot. I want to replace MSR with a red & white Tea; CS with a red Tea.

Madame Joseph Schwartz is located in the back of the rectangular bed. Cramoisi in the middle and the black spot disaster in the front. Looks like I'm going to have to move MJS forward, put Niles in the back and the red rose (I'm thinking Souvenir de Therese Levet) in the front.

I need to get the replacement choices made so I can place my orders for spring delivery.

Thanks,

Patrick

Hey Patrick, you should consider Gen Galleini (sp?) for the red tea. Mine's a year old (Countryside) still in a pot so a bit stressed with no BS: none, zip, zilch, nada. The blooms are large, complex color changers. Mine will be planted out into prime real estate this fall whenever the rains begin, the General is destined to be a favorite here.

Cecily,

Have you had a chance to smell the blossoms? Were they fragant?

Thanks,

Patrick

I have a 2 yo General Gallieni and it is as Cecily says for me as well, totally bs free and it blooms quite a bit. I haven't detected any fragrance. The blooms open with a cream and pink heart and gradually darken to burgandy and then darker. It is a favorite rose in my no spray garden. Gean

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Gen G has a moderate fruity scent, I just sniffed him. Mine has the sprawling habit shown in Gean's photo, it will take some time for this rose to gain height.

Patrick, I grow Niles Cochet and Cramoisi Superior and Mme Joseph Schwartz in my garden, as well as Duchess de Brabant. Of the first three, Niles Cochet is definitely the largest, so putting it in the back is a good idea. It grows much faster than Duchess de Brabant. My Cramoisi grows the same way it sounds like yours does, but I like the flowers and just put down the twiggy nature & sparse leaves to the fact that it is a china, not a tea. One thing you might think about - look carefully at the color of Niles Cochet. It is really not at all "red", it is really raspberry & pink & cream. I love it - it is always healthy and covered with blooms in my garden, but it is not red. (I think some of the decriptions of the old roses used the word "red" like modern rose hybridizers use "blue" when the flowers are really mauve or purple.)

look carefully at the color of Niles Cochet. It is really not at all "red", it is really raspberry & pink & cream.

*** And in fact, I've seen Niles bloom in Maman Cochet pink, and as White Maman Cochet, too.
He's a Kwazy Woze. :-) But lovely.

Jeri

Thanks everybody for your input. I went ahead and ordered NILES COCHET along with two other Teas and a Bourbon. He is simply too handsome not to give him a try. The fragrance really doesn't have to be strong. It just has to be present. For example, BELINDA'S DREAM has a light fruity fragrance (almost like Celestial Seasons raspberry tea, but milder). Nothing to rave about but it is persistent and detectable under most conditions. That combined with gorgeous flowers, unbeatable repeat, and superb disease resistance makes her a keeper in mom's garden (I also planted a Belinda's Dream in my MIL's garden, but don't tell my mom). If Niles Cochet's blossoms live up to the images AND he has some fragrance AND his foliage is resistant to black spot in coastal Virginia, then he will be worth the effort/expense.

I think I need to give my card a rest. Here is what I've ordered just within the last week or so:

Clementina Carbonieri
Climbing Radiance
Climbing White Maman Cochet (2)
Deuil du Dr. Reynaud (pour moi, j'adore Bourbons!)
Niles Cochet
Rock Hill Peach Tea
Souvenir de Francis Gaulain

Of course I still need 2 more shrub roses, 1 Floribunda, 1 Tea, 2 climbing Teas, 1 vintage Hybrid Tea, and a David Austin. Sigh, it never ends...

> Climbing Radiance

*** OH! I did not realize it was still in commerce.
I will be interested to hear how this one does.

Of course I still need *** 1 vintage Hybrid Tea,

*** I probably shouldn't even bring this up, given our different climates,
but you might take a good look at 'Snowbird' (Hatton, U.S., 1936,
Chastity x Louise Crette).
That is the supposed identity of a found HT here, "Louise Ave. White HT."
It is an incredibly lovely, disease-free, fragrant, and free blooming
rose here. I can understand why it was so highly-regarded in its day,
and it's still valuable.

Jeri

Oh, thanks for that tidbit Jeri. I had wondered about Louise Ave White, ever since I saw your slide of it when you spoke here in Texas at ARE..... I really love that rose! Must get it, who sells it?

Allison

Allison, Vintage carries Snowbird.

No one carries "Louise Ave," but if this is in fact Snowbird, the Vintage clone
would likely be close enough.

DH has taken some cuttings, tho it is too soon to tell if they're going
to make it.
If they grow, they will go to the Sacramento City Cemetery
Open Garden,
next April 19.

Jeri

Jeri,

VINTAGE carries both Climbing Radiance and Climbing Red Radiance. The former is listed as currently available so if you want to take the plunge then now is the time.

Patrick

Ahh Patrick -- I would, but I am presently in REMOVE Roses Mode,
rather than ADD roses mode.
That's why we sent our $$$ for a donation of Vintage roses for the San Jose
Heritage Rose Garden.
For one thing, we're currently propagating roses like mad, for the Sacramento City
Cemetery Open Garden Rose Sale.
For another, well, we need to get rid of as many roses as we can right now,
so that the remaining (and more important to us) roses can get enough water.
Water, I am sorry to say, is going to be a huge issue here.

Jeri

Patrick, you will like Clementina Carbonieri. I love the color and it is one of the few teas I can actually smell! :-)