I've never seen an actual LAK, but your message is really interesting. Could this be a new (newly known in our time) variety? I notice in pictures of LAK that the flower stems are often red with lots of unusual bracts. You could ask the finder whether the found rose has those bracts. Also, is LAK thornless?

Kim -- Check 'Dr. Rouges.'

Jeri

Hi Kim! Just looking at the pictures and before I read your text, my thought was - Lady Ann Kidwell except for the color.

But LAK blooms last only a few days for me; 2 weeks in Chico - wow!

I hope someone can identify this gorgeous beauty. It's driven my lust-o-meter way up high....

Cheers,
Jo

Good suggestion by Jeri. According to mercir's detailed photos on HMF, Dr. Rouges (from Vintage) has heavily fringed stipules-- something a true tea rose should not have (Dr. Rouges is classed as tea), but a polyantha might have. Kim could ask the finder about stipules and red stems, as well as bracts.

OK. Following up . . .

I live with LAK. And I have seen and photographed Dr. Rouges.
I can tell you that Dr. Rouges does NOT have fringed stipules.
Nor is it thornless.

BUT an LAK with 10-ft canes from a small pot sounds entirely wrong, too. Unless they have an un-documented Climbing version of LAK -- in which case, I want it.

I'd like to know where this Found Rose was Found.
I HAVE seen LAK in at least one old cemetery, but it is now gone from there (I recently asked the people who are doing restoration there.)

So, this rose interests me greatly.

Att. see Dr. Rouges. Note the stipule, and the very healthy red prickle.

Jeri

I've sent the plant's owner the link to this thread and asked her to chime in to answer the recent questions. I'm sure it's probably grown into the ground through the drainage holes. As for the plant's size, LAK grew up and through large, established plants at Sequoia Nursery, topping out at well over 8' in part day sun. If unpruned, in a benign climate; given the support of surrounding plants, a trellis or fence and particularly in part sun to filtered shade, LAK will "climb". I simply haven't fondled a plant of it in a long enough time to be able to answer the questions about stipules and bracts. Kim

Kim, should you cross-post to ARF?

Returning again to marcir's photos on HMF, the stipule fringe on his or her plant of 'Dr. Rouges' is light to moderate rather than "heavy" as I said above. marcir apparently seeks to show that 'Dr. Rouges' of commerce is the same as "Papa Gontier" from Marchi, but marcir apparently has a mislabeled "Papa Gontier."

If the found plant is thornless, that seems to be a difference from both 'Dr. Rouges' and LAK. Also the flower (if the pic is representative) has nicer form than 'Dr. Rouges'.

Thank you Michael. I just posted the subject with a link there. Kim

I agree with Michael about the form. LAK does eventually quill, and I don't find that unattractive.

OTOH, Dr. Rouges --- now that I look at him again -- quills far more than I really like.

I really think the bloom looks like LAK -- but the thornless thing bothers me, since LAK is definitely not thornless. (See att.)

Here (and also on the Antiques side) are detail views of LAK.

Jeri

The rose grower has to register for GW before she can join in the discussion. She did forward this to me this evening. "By the way, I have Dr. Rouges and it is most definitely NOT that rose. It does not have any red color in the stems under the blooms that I see in the pix of LAK either. I will try to find time tomorrow to take some pix of the leaves and other parts of the bloom that may not show in the photo I sent to post when and if I can get registered on GW." Kim

Kim this is really interesting. It does look like Lady Anne Kidwell but like you said, too red. It seems like something that should get passed around eventually. How many roses look like that and are thornless?

Kim -- What about the suggestion that it could be Cl. Pasadena Tournament? Have you run this by Jim Delahanty (since he grows it)?

Jeri

Thanks Jeri. I have emailed Jim with the link here. Hopefully, he'll see it shortly. Kim

Here is the information from Jim..

"My Cl PT is right outside the study window; if it has shortish stems on long canes and turns a dark purplish red in fade, I would guess yes, it is. The other possibility would be Red Sweetheart, since that is a lighter color than PT."

I questioned if Red Sweetheart would achieve that size...

"No. Not usually, but remember that they are pretty much the same crosses (LAK, RS, ClPT), and have potential for size that largely goes unrecorded....If I hadnâÂÂt seen LAK at CaroleâÂÂs, I would never believe that it could cover the side of a garage...."

From HMF for Red Sweetheart:

The discussion of parentage in the patent is rather complicated, but the parentage is not. Apparently this rose resulted from this cross: (open-pollinated seedling of a red rose) x 'Cecile Brunner'. (The red rose was derived from 'Cecile Brunner', and was the male parent in 'Pasadena Tournament'). (Throughout the patent, Cecile is misspelled as Cecil)

Your guess would be as good as anyone's whether this is Red Sweetheart, Lady Ann Kidwell or Cl Pasadena Tournament. Kim

I don't think it looks like Climbing Pasadena Tournament.

Is there a possibility that it could be propagated???? It sounds like a pretty idea SoCal rose.

Jeri

I'd think she'd be willing to try. Sally has some decent luck rooting things. Kim

Well, it certainly sounds worthy of more study -- and probably wider distribution.

Jeri

None of the photos on HMF show 'Pasadena Tournament' regular or climbing as having quilled petals. They do often have scrolled petals, which is an opposite tendency in my experience. Has Jim or Pamela observed quilling on Cl. PT?

I know that this is old and probably not on anyone's mind anymore, but what about Triomphe des Noisettes? Is that even possible? BTW, I'm lousy at this. I can't even guess my own sometimes. :-)

I am curious if the rose was ever identified. I love the look of this. I have LAK because I fell in love with Jeri's photos of her :) I would definitely purchase one like in the first photos of this post if I could find it.

Well, I'm no expert,but it does seem to me that a rose "which has grown in its too-small container, too long" might also have certain (for example, nutritional?) issues that could interfere with it's colour. Just my 2 cents...