I'm so sorry to hear you had a bad experience. There's nothing more frustrating than waiting with anticipation for a much wanted rose only to have the order get botched. I'm glad you were at least able to find Long John Silver somewhere else.

I'm sorry that you're so far from Rogue Valley Roses and Vintage Rose Gardens. I'm almost certain you're not alluding to either one of them since the many interactions I've had with them have always been exemplary, even when I've changed my order umpteen times and would myself have been irritated with me had I been in their place. I can certainly understand your frustration. When you spend this much of your hard-earned money you do expect service and courtesy.

Ingrid

wow I hope you have a nice big spot for Long John Silver. He is beautiful but gigantic. I will get that rose one day myself when I have a mansion to grow it up.:o)

and don't forget to post on Dave's Garden, the Garden Watchdog section. If a nursery gives such bad service as that then it should be known.

Sorry you had that experience and I hope that if you do post about them then they will catch wind and get to the bottom of it. From what you say it doesn't sound typical so maybe they need to investigate it further. Sometimes you do a company a favor by taking that kind of action because mabye they have a less than stellar person working there and need to correct it before their reputation gets any more tarnished.
When a person gets good service they tell one other. When they get BAD service they tell ten. Or so the saying goes.

Hey Rob, keep smiling. The number of gardeners who are willing to mail order obscure roses and pay the danged shipping charges is limited. Rose nurseries should treat their customers well if they wish to remain in business. I hope you will post a comment on Garden Watchdog so that nursery can get their act together.

Rob, I am almost certain that you are speaking of ashdown. I also ordered a long john silver from them. Mine was getting to be a week late (asked for april 15 delv date). I didn't hear anything either later in that week, so i called and am sure i was lucky and got Paul. He said they were behind and i think last years drought might have put them there. But he shipped my order the same day and it arrived Mon, it was fri when i called. LJS was a little on the small side but doing well, he may have wanted to hold it longer i don't recall, but i would have had him ship it anyway. I planted it in the ground and it is doing fine. I like rogue also, but to tell you the truth ljs was bigger than quite a few roses i got from rogue. I know paul and janet both have posted in these forums. Its hard sometimes for me to mailorder and coordinate everything for when i can be home, i drive over the road, but i also realize the nursery business would be a rough business when mother nature doesn't cooperate, especially in the shipping season. I hate to call the nurseries during the shipping season but sometimes it is necessary.lol. I called one nursery and they answered the phone,"----nursery we are busy!" Rob, i get frustrated also sometimes, but i just know that i wouldn't want to be in the nursery business, it's too much work!lol

I think it may be Ashdown, also..alluding to the shipping status...my order was to be shipped the 2nd week in April, and said "in progress" for 6 weeks..I finally e-mailed them, and I got a prompt reply, and a promise that my order would ship immediately..the next day I got another e-mail saying my order had shipped..I'm expecting them tomorrow or Monday. I am a loyal Ashdown customer, and all's well that ends well..I love their plants and their selection..so a glitch here and there isn't the end of the world to me..I think that they deserve the benefit of the doubt..whatever the reason, they seem to be catching up, and I'm sure this won't be repeated in the future. Donna

Rob

Sorry you had problems with your order and you experience with whom ever you ordered from. I know a few people mentioned Ashdown. I have always order from them with great results. I hope you will try whom ever you ordered from again as every place of business can have an off year or problems. Reading the post on this forum, I think all the great rose nurserys have had problems one time or another but on the whole they are all good and should be tried again before comming to a final conclusion.

Jeesh! What a mess. Try Roses Unlimited...never had a bad experience...roses are awesome.

Ashdown had weird weather this spring, it put them behind. I have always had answers to emails...I had a large order with them, and I got most of the roses in April..they were kind of small but they looked healthy..I potted them into pots a little larger than what they had been in..and today six weeks later, I have started planting some in the ground, and some in large pots, where I plan to keep them.
I have been a fan of Ashdown since they opened for business..I adore Paul, and Trish...they have always done whatever they needed to do, to fix mistakes, and I feel sure they would do that for you. Call Trish, and explain what happened...give them a chance to make things right.

I also ordered from Ashdown last year and their roses arrived in March as promised, except for one which they ran out of. We had late snow storms in April of this year and the Ashdown roses (which were repotted into one gallon containers) survived the freeze without so much as losing a leaf. Other own-root roses that I ordered from nurseries in California did not fare as well with the late winter storms and are just now putting out new leaves. I recommend Ashdown highly and am sorry to hear of your terrible experience with them.

Jeff

I, too, have had phone calls go unanswered with Ashdown, but if you e-mail Paul directly, I think you'll hear back right away. He has always gotten back to me (quickly) whenever I've e-mailed him, especially if I put "concern" in the subject area. He has explained to me that they have had a rough year. However, it is inexcusable that that you were not able to communicate with them, and I would let Paul know so that he can look into it.

Sandy

I really believe it's a fluke. I'm sure they'll make it right for you...somehow.

Robert

I'm sure it is a fluke too. They've had a weird spring there that has put them behind, that is a fact. I've had a strange spring here...cooler than usual and they are farther west and closer to the mountains than I am. I'm still waiting for some roses myself. I have never had bad experience with either Paul or Trish. And I know they'll make things right with you.

Hopefully Paul will spot this thread but I'm thinking he might be at the Chelsea Flower Show in England.

Carole

The problem is that in the north, you really have to get what you want when you want it. There are roses that if they were six weeks behind schedule, I'd cancel the order because it would mean they would be six weeks behind schedule getting ready for winter. That's almost a quarter of our growing season. Given that knowledge and an ability to cancel the order, I'd say 'no harm no foul'. Having it drag on is just infuriating. Particularly in an era where a lot of this stuff can be automated.

Will anyone who has recently received, or is awaiting the receipt, of a rose order from Ashdown please contact me off board.

Thanks,
Connie
c *dot* hilker *at* comcast *dot* net (spam-resistant email, hopefully)

I suggest Roses Unlimited if you want to order from the east coast. I have never gotten a messed up order from them and their roses are always beautiful. I strongly suspect your problems are with the same nursery that I have had problems. Beautiful web sites don't always mean wonderful plants and service.

I may add that a "fluke" is something that happens rarely not regularly and it seems the nursery in quesiton is having far too many problems.

I know that Ashdown is having problems with yahoo email. I was very frustrated with them as they weren't responding to any of my emails. I tried a different email account (had to use my work email) and I finally got through. My order is a little late too, but they emailed me this weekend and said it would ship this week. I don't mind waiting, their roses are wonderful and they're one of the few vendors with Delbard roses which do very well for me.

Kay,
As usual you hit the nail right on the head!

I will respond to the rest of you later...
Had a long day in the rosebeds and planting pumpkins at the grandmother-in-laws farm.

I did hear from the owner of the nursery because someone notified him of my post. I will give you the jist of it later, after I've had the courtesy of responding to him.

Thanks to all for your support,
Rob :)

Rob,
I wish I knew you(and others) were looking for LJS. I had a bunch of them last year that I rooted! They are all gone now.
Remy

Just thought I would mention, Roses Unlimited has always sent me EXCELLENT roses, and they are always available for customer concerns.

Sandy

Connie,
I sent you an email, did you get it?

Sandy, that's twice you've praised Roses Unlimited, so I'll live in faith that they'll take care of the wrong rose they shipped me (Mme. Plantier) instead of Morning Has Broken. But the last issue I had, I called to describe how Julia Child was poorly doing and the advice I got was "shovel-prune it". Considering RU's prices are top dollar, I have some expectation that they'll back their product the way ARE and CHamblees have always done. Um, I miss Texas...

connie, why do you want us to contact you? I received an order a couple of weeks ago, but had no problems. Are you connected with the nursery?

I think we need to be careful here to not sully the name of well-respected antique rose vendors before giving them a full chance to rectify a situation. I've also found that one employee who says something foolish does not always represent the mindset of the entire firm.

Randy

Well, Mad Gallica I understand that in the north you need the roses on time because of the short growing season. In the south we need them because it can get hot any minute. My area is very dry though fortunately not hot so far but strong drying winds make planting very difficult this late.

I also have issues if I order a rose and pay for it in October and I was told that it had been already rooted and the rose still isn't here close to Memorial Day. Another rose I added to the order I paid for probably in February and that isn't here either.

I don't understand what the weather has to to with it because these roses are all greenhouse grown.

I got roses from Chamblee's that I ordered in late March and received in April and paid for them one week before shipping. They were huge and absolutely gorgeous. They were also greenhouse grown.

Barbarag, when you say doing poorly, do you mean you were sent a good plant, but it's now doing poorly (as in not suited to your area) or that it just wasn't a good rose to begin with? I'm not associated in any way with their nursery, but if the rose was a good plant, but just not suited to your area, then I'd say it's pretty difficult to know how a plant will do in any given area (for instance, Julia Child does very well here, but I have no idea how it does elsewhere), no nursery can know how something will do everywhere. However, if the rose was not good to begin with (arrived half dead or something), then that's a different matter.

--Ron

it is my understanding that even though the cuttings might be greenhouse grown that the mother plants are not.

Thanks, all. It seems I have reached the people I was trying to get in touch with.

. . . and, I have no connection with Ashdown. I'm just a lowly repeat customer -- who will continue to remain a customer.

Connie

Sandy, I did get very nice roses from RU but they usually die on me in 3 years, so far the one exception is Papi Delbard. Just yesterday we noticed that cl. Mrs. Sam McGredy passed away. I knew that the bush version of Mrs. Sam McGredy was weak, so I kept it in a pot and watched carefully but that died fairly soon. The climbing version was supposed to be vigorous and it started out well. Alas, by last year it died back to one long cane, this spring bloomed once and now is dead - despite alfalfa and all.

I will watch closely the 3 new plants I got from RU this year; I truly hope they fare better.

Of course it is possible that I am cursed with own root plants with the notable exception of trades and Chamblee's. The whys puzzle me and even if you torture me I would not be able to explain the discrepancy.

I had a delay with my order too, but my email was promptly answered and the plants were beautiful when they arrived. Sorry you didn't have a good experience though. I've ordered from them twice and been very pleased.

eterum

Have you thought about voles. I had voles get in one rose and not bother the rose next door. I doubt it has anything do do with the nursery if the rose grows ro three years old before having a problem. Just my thougts...you may want to have the soil tested.

Sandy, I did get very nice roses from RU but they usually die on me in 3 years, so far the one exception is Papi Delbard. Just yesterday we noticed that cl. Mrs. Sam McGredy passed away. I knew that the bush version of Mrs. Sam McGredy was weak, so I kept it in a pot and watched carefully but that died fairly soon. The climbing version was supposed to be vigorous and it started out well. Alas, by last year it died back to one long cane, this spring bloomed once and now is dead - despite alfalfa and all.

I will watch closely the 3 new plants I got from RU this year; I truly hope they fare better.

Of course it is possible that I am cursed with own root plants with the notable exception of trades and Chamblee's. The whys puzzle me and even if you torture me I would not be able to explain the discrepancy.

As to my Ashdown order, my missing orders don't even show up in the order status - there only two orders completed two years ago are listed. They do exist somewhere because I did get several emails from Trish about postponing shipping then postponing it again.

It seems like a lot of folks like myself (just plain folk with a love of roses) would have been much more comfortable if Ashdown could have addressed the problem directly on their web site. There by acnologing that they even new we where waiting for our roses. I'm sorry but they have had my money since fall and I have no roses it's that simple. Like other people in the north we have a period of time to get roses in they grow quickly in cool weather not heat. I realize a lot of people really like Ashdown but when I continually check their web site and all thats ever spoken of is their new garden, expensive as heck ferts, and all the cool people they have around. Don't know but it starts to get annoying. Ashdown, we are good people and understanding just talk to us. Oh, and the message that keep saying more roses where coming caused me to miss getting them elsewhere while I still could. That was very dissapointing. I'm sorry if this message was not well spoken but sums up how I feel. Have you forgotten the little people that got you started. I did just recieve a phone call asking if I wish to cancelled my order I really wanted those roses of coarse I don't really want to CANCELL them will they live thur winter can't tell you.
Tankyou so much for letting me crab. Pat

Nearlywild, I didn't have voles in the past but they just started to move in. I doubt however that they could kill arose that was in a plastic pot that was placed in a decorative clay pot.
Also, one rose died of canker (coming up from the main cane), another, Mrs. Sam McGredy blackened totally from ground upwards that reminds me of wilt but I saw wilt only on seedlings or small potted roses, never on more or less mature plants in the ground. One plant did show massive root loss that may indicate vermin activity but we saw no tunnels, no burrowing or anything like that.

I am open to any explanation because some of these plants were very dear to me.

Yes, Antique Rose Emporium is great too. They do have wonderful customer service and have always backed any roses I've been less than thrilled with.

Sandy

PattyW describes my psychology perfectly. Too many emaials, rather e-gazettes, about 4 in a month - it is too many; once a month would be enough and perfect. The only reason I open them because I hope some info about my plants' no such luck.

When I got that many mails from Wayside I filtered them to the junk folder or unsubscribed.

I am sort of schizoid as to write about my problems or I would have been better off by shutting up. I don't not want to get tiny plants for this price when I am supposed to get two-gallons plants like ARE sends.

My goodness! Things are turning ugly here....I was afraid of that. Randy was right when he posted that we need to be careful not to sully the name of a well-respected nursery without knowing what solution was offered to the original poster's problem. And we don't know, do we?

I can certainly understand Patty's frustrations although a short growing season is not something that I deal with.
I had ordered two Papi Delbards from Ashdown to grow up an obelisk that is standing in my front garden. They lost all their Papi Delbards this spring so I will be waiting until fall. Sure I was disappointed but I realize that these are live plants that we are dealing with...not exactly a product that can be manufactured to precise specifications. The reality is that lots of stuff can go wrong when dealing with Mother Nature.

I for one honestly appreciate all the things the Ashdown does for plain folks that love roses. They have made roses available to people that otherwise would not be. Next time you're in a big box store look around the garden center and take note of the roses that they sell. Mostly crap IMHO and I credit Ashdown, Roses Unlimited, Vintage and all the other nurseries for taking the time and trouble to make real roses available to us plain folks.

I've been very happy with the roses that I have gotten so far this spring from Ashdown. Although small they are healthy, happy and growing. I also ordered Wedding Cake from Sequoia this year. When it arrived it was a small stick and all the leaves promptly fell off. They grew back quickly and I have high hopes for the little bugger. I also ordered four roses from Vintage. They also were small but I've repotted those and they seem to be in a holding pattern...adjusting to life on the East Coast.

It is no secret that I have used the fertilizer that was introduced by Ashdown this year and I've been thrilled with it. So much so that I have gone back to Organic Plant Healthcare several times and bought some of their products to use in other areas of my yard with great success so far.

I have also enjoyed several of the speakers that have visited Ashdown. Michael Marriott for one has changed the way I look at growing roses. I just glad that Paul and Trish have provided the access to these speakers.

I am running out of time here....got to go to work as I am totally unaffiliated with any nursery. Just a lab tech with lives to save. ;-)

Sorry if I got long winded.

Carole

I will fill you in this evening. Sorry it took me so long to update you folks.

Rob:)

I view things differently, i don't see anyone's reputation getting sullied. I haven't seen a thing on here that would cause me to change my mind about ordering from them again or not. I order roses for the selection of roses that i want, order enough to make it worth my while for the shipping costs, and just love sales. If a vendor has a selection of roses that aren't available very many places, i will put up with a lot of things depending on how bad i want the roses. I think it is great to have a forum where people can vent and say things freely, give their views, and either accept or discount them. I haven't ordered from ru yet or maybe ever, i have heard wonderful things about them. When they have a big sale, and have enough roses i would wish to buy and reasonable shipping i will consider it. I ordered from ashdown because i've heard good things about them, they had a sale, and the potless shipping was free, they had ljs, r.britzensis, and some other roses i wanted and some being only available there. When my order was getting late, I called and talked to paul, and he shipped them that day and they arrived when he said they would, very professional and a nice guy. You can't really know a person or business's character until you see how they react when there are problems, and i think ashdown in my situation passed with flying colors.

---My goodness! Things are turning ugly here....I was afraid of that.---

Carol, I noticed you are from SC and probably live close enough to Ashdown to have personal feelings toward the individuals involved. However, speaking of services provided about a company is NOT being ugly.

Everyone should feel free to post POSITIVE or NEGATIVE results about their shopping experience. The ugly part is that so many folks are having problems and are hesitant to mention them for fear of being critized. Most businesses grow and become better by getting customer feedback to guide them in improvement.

I started reading the forum in 2002 and have seen and read many threads where rose growers discussed vendors. Somebody used to do a forum poll once a year and post an annual report on all the major vendors showing the results of several questions. I frequently check out Dave's Watchdog before ordering from an unknown company. I once ordered bulbs from a company and dissregarded the customer ratings because of cheaper prices. Guess what, I got exactly the poor quality bulbs other shoppers described. It is in the best public interest to get feedback from customers when a national internet company is involved.

I'm not sure what living in SC has to do with anything. In reality I live closer to Charlotte, NC and at least a couple of hours drive from both Roses Unlimited and Ashdown. If you read over my post I did speak of both positive and negative things that had happened to me in dealing with Ashdown and several other rose nurseries that I have dealt with in the recent past. Isn't that what we should feel free to do?

I know from personal experience that growing roses is not an exact science and the point I was trying to make is that producing them for sale to the public simply isn't as cut and dry as producing a product that can be manufactured to exact standards. I am just happy that there are people out there who love roses enough to make the more obscure and unusual varieties available to us. Home Depot just isn't going to do that. Just this past weekend I visited a really nice nursery in Charlotte and their idea of roses is a bunch of HT's that they potted up as bare roots this spring.

Carole

People in Zone 5, like the original poster, have shorter growing seasons than people in Zone 8. He needs to get his roses in a timely manner. If the nursery doesn't have the rose ready then they need to give him an honest answer so that he can source it elsewhere in time to get it established. Its just a good business practice to be considerate of the specific needs of the customer. I hope BC gets his rose!

Hi all,
Boy did this thread turn exactly into what I had hoped it wouldn't. I never meant for the name of any vendor to come up. That has been my own pet peeve with people on the forums that I had to overcome myself, that is, complaining about a vendor before you have contacted them in regards to your problem. That way maybe you will get your problem resolved before you feel you have to complain.

In my own case, the only time I was able to get ahold of someone at this vendor was ironically at the time of canceling my 2nd order. So in frustration I needed to vent my anger, however trivial it maybe compared to real problems in our lives, my garden and my roses are #6 on my list of what's most important to me in life... that's pretty high on my list. I'm also a VERY patient person. People tell me that if I was any more patient they'd have to pronounce me dead. :^D

Anyway, I was contacted by the owner of the nursery and here is what he said:

Hi Robert,
Paul Zimmerman here. Im the owner of Ashdown Roses. A customer of ours pointed me towards your post on the Antique Forum and the problems you had with us this season. I try to answer as many of these as I can and I hope you donÂt mind me intruding on you to do the same.
First let me say your post was very gracious and this is in no way about that. When we make mistakes I like to contact folks to find out what happened  however in this case from your post I feel fairly sure I know the situation.
IÂm sorry your first experience with us was a bad one. While I feel it is not a typical experience for our customers in your situation this was your only experience with us so for you it was typical. I can only offer the following background as to this year in the hope it might help you better understand why it did.
The freeze and drought last year severely affected our ability to propagate to the point we were not only late with our crop but we only have about 60% of the roses we would like to have. What we do have is slow to come on this year, hence the size issues. Pot-Less has worked well in terms of getting costs down but when the plants are smaller we need to hold them because Pot-Less does stress them somewhat.
To solve that in the future we are going back to a pot we used about five years ago which is a 3.5 inch by 6 inch pot that produced a nice rootball and plant. It is also less expensive to ship. In addition we should be able to expand our selection and offer more roses year around including fall shipping. It will mean the lower shipping cost of pot-less but with a more stable rootball and a pot so customers donÂt have to deal with the plants upon arrival.
We also lost two key personnel this season and it is impossible to replace and train people during the season. Because of that Trish and I are pretty much running the place on our own with some help on the weekends, and they are focusing on propagation. Needless to say that has put us behind on many things as well.
So, itÂs been one of those years. Late plants, less staff is giving us late shipping and customer communication that I realize is not what it should be.
These are not offered as excuses because in the end what matters to you the customer is that we give you the product you ordered, when you ordered it. I hope you will give us another try next season (hopefully when things are back to normal). I did see you were able to get a Long John Silver elsewhere and IÂm glad you were. It is a lovely classic rambler with exquisite blooms on it. I first saw it bloom in England about five years ago and loved it.
Have a wonderful gardening year and I appreciate your time,
All the best
Paul

[My response:]
Hi Paul,
Thank you for your response and concern.
I never intended for the name of Ashdown to come up in the post. By the time I checked back, there you were, I apologize for that. I try very hard and always encourage people on the forums to contact the nursery before posting their problems regarding the nursery. In my case however I couldn't get responses to phone calls and emails. I was very frustrated due to the lack of communication and the need to have these delivered on time in order for them to bulk up for winter.

I do not take your response as excuses. I have been the foreman in an architectural woodwork shop for 13 years. I am very familiar with the ups, downs, ins, and outs of a small and specialized firm. We produce one of a kind pieces of furniture, doors, cabinets, or anything made out of wood. We have some rather eccentric clients that change their minds in the middle of production, and all kinds of situations that are turning my 35 year old hair grey. They are at times very hard to make happy, even when you give them exactly what they asked for, even if you go above and beyond what they asked for.

So I understand that things don't always go the way you hope they will in a given business year. I understand how hard it is to train people in a very specialized niche, and keep them as productive employees.

I'd love to quit my job, move my family to South Carolina and come and work for you, but I highly doubt that as an under-nurseryman I would be making the $XX/hr that I need to support my family in our present standard of living. I can dream though. :)

Also, Trish is currently helping me with a situation that arose concerning the size of the Fantin Latour that you sent me, and a spider mite issue as well with Jim Lounsbery.

I will see what damage control I can offer on the GW forum.

I hope you find the people you need to help you make your company what you dream it will be. May next year bring you sunshine mixed with just the right amount of rain, timely frosts and thaws, and zealous rose collectors with disposable incomes due to plummeting oil and energy prices.

Thank you sincerely,
Robert Stockman

[His response to my response]
Hi Robert,
Good morning and thanks for responding. DonÂt worry at all about our name coming up. As I mentioned weÂve had some struggles this season and others have been through what you have. In that regard I have no problems with our name coming up. IÂm a glass half full kind of guy and so think that this being discussed on a forum will let others know we are having issues this season  and give our long time customers a chance to share their experiences which are positive (If I may toot my own horn here for a moment! LOL)
We are looking forward to next year. A new year, a new crop and a new way of offering plants I think customers will like. WeÂll release more details as we go on but as you well know small business is about fine tuning new approaches. The pot-less was new, by and large it worked and where it failed it did so spectacularly. But it achieved the goal of getting shipping way down. To that end we are working with that smaller pot to give a more established root ball with a plant that is more than a band. I hope it works and IÂll know for sure in about 8 weeks.
The email situation was largely due to yahoo, bellsouth and about four other providers blocking our emails as spam. IÂve had to register with each of them but that is taking time. In your chase however it wasnÂt and I can only say we just got behind with all the extra work.
IÂd love for you to come work for me but at $XX an hour IÂd advise you stay put! I love woodworking and do some very amateurish work in my spare time. Mostly structures like potting sheds etc. I find it a great way to relax and buy tools I could otherwise not justify. You know, "if I do the labor myself and save this much money I can afford this new saw"
Stay in touch and thanks
Paul

So after some communication, I feel the issues have been resolved. Trish is sending me a new 'Fantin Latour' and if both of them survive the winter I will pay for the replacement she sent me whether she likes it or not. :^) And I have a handle on the spider mite issue.

However, I don't know if I will be buying from Ashdown again, or any other non-dormant, own root vendor. Not because of any fault of the vendor, but I'm just not sure that these small plants are suited to getting established in my climate before winter sets in. I know I will be completely burying these plants for winter protection at least this first year, and that's something I vowed to never do again. If I had to provide winter protection to all my 100+ roses, they'd be putting on spring growth before I was finished.

Time will tell.

At the moment, I feel my issue with Ashdown has been resolved. So, please don't let my 1st experience with them be an indication of what your first experience might be.

Now I hope this thread will just die, unless someone has something they need to say.

Thanks for all your time and support,
Thanks to Ashdown for resolving my issues,
and thanks to USPS, FED-EX, and UPS for bring me all my roses this year,
Rob :)

I am going against my better judgement and am going to pipe in any way. I certainly do not want to be involved in a free for all.

I don't see this thread as getting ugly. There is no name calling, etc. We should all feel free to state facts and feelings here, whether they happen to be complimentary or critical in nature. Our country has always been based on capitalism and freedom of speech. If a business offers exceptional products and exceptional service, this equals profits for that business. If a business offers sub standard products and/or service, this affects the profit margin. This is as it should be. For most of us money is extremely tight these days, and I, for one, will spend my money at the top notch places. I would be insane to do other wise.

In addition, if I feel as though I did not get my money's worth, and wish to let others know, I may choose to do so. I certainly like hearing other people's experiences. It helps in my decisions on who to do business with. Someone can be one of the nicest people on earth, but if they don't please the buying public......

I'm sorry, short growing seasons etc. are only excuses. If the plants are not ready, well, they're not ready. They should not be offered for sale at all until they are ready, or charged to a customer's credit card way ahead of shipping (which violates many business credit card agreements) until they are ready.

I've received healthy plants this year from Ashdown, but they were smaller than the Vintage bands, could not even stand up in a pot yet, (barely rooted), and I am annoyed that they have to be potted up for several months before planting. I was not sure they would survive, but so far they are holding their own. I am annoyed because I have holes in my landscape that I needed these plants for, and I now need to purchase these from another source.

When I knowingly purchase bands, I've made a decision to pamper these bands, and know they are small. When I purchase plants that are supposed to be ready to put in the ground, that is what I expect to get.

Are the Ashdown people wonderfully nice people? YES!!!! But I am certainly not happy with the plants I received, and have let Paul know. In fairness to Paul, he offered credit for these plants, but they are not dead, so I haven't taken credit. But, I'm still very annoyed.

Sandy