The faster you replace them, the faster another tree can get growing & sizable. You could even remove, say, 2 of the ash and replace them, leaving one for shade and effect while the other 2 trees get going.

Here's a big question. Go out and take a look at large, fairly stately examples of your favorite oak tree, favorite maple tree, etc..., that are appropriate for your zone and locale. Do you like them about as well as the ash?

If the ash is far and away more beautiful in your eyes, perhaps ongoing pesticide treatment for decades is worthwhile.

Richard.

Just for fun I'll take the opposite of drrich: how large is your tree(s) now and how many benefits is it conferring that will be lost if you cut it down now? And what is the cost of, say, $50/annum for 15 years vs 10-15 years of $150-300/annum in higher AC bills/lost property and amenity value? And what if you plant an oak and it gets BLS or some bug that will surely be imported and attack it and you lose that one too?

At any rate, these are the two bookends of the conversations that have been happening for several years now. Everyone is having the same conversation, with some minor extras thrown in.

(and look, I didn't even give one of my two standard answers! ;o) ).

Dan

Any chance of splitting the difference? Perhaps one is in a bit worse shape than the other or is shading a flower bed you would like to plant some sun annuals in. Pick that one for removal and save the other two perhaps?

I have the same decision coming in a couple years myself. I am leaning towards saving the back yard tree which is better situated than the one the previous owners planted too close to the front of the house.

No experience with EAB, but with other trees. (elms, birches) healthy trees either are not attacked or able to fight borers.My suggestion is to root feed and maintain sufficient water throughout the year. Not too expensive if DIY and use inexpensive balanced fertilizer.

When I had my five mature ash trees removed in 2005 (ish, might have been 2006), it cost me around $2900 to have them cut, the brushy stuff removed, the wood cut into rounds small enough that they could be moved, and I chose not to have the stumps removed, because I live on the corner of a busy road and have many cars that miss the corner, and I'd rather they impact a tree trunk than my house, thank you.

So, you need to consider how much this is going to cost you if your trees die. For me, $2900 was the low quote, one was almost $5K.

The generic equivalent of Bayer Advanced is now about $12.99 a quart at Meijer stores here in Michigan -- it would take probably 3 quarts to do a fairly large mature tree -- while $120 per year isn't cheap, it would take quite a few years of the cost of this pesticide to equal what it will cost you to have the trees removed. Perhaps tree services are cheaper in WI than here in Michigan, I don't know, but if I were in your shoes, I would definitely treat them. Imadichloprid came on the market too late to save my trees, or I would have done this in a heartbeat.

healthy trees either are not attacked or able to fight borers

No.

Along with what denn said, there are several cities in the MidWest doing injections on key trees, and some anecdotal evidence that a drench of Imidichloprid with a constant presence of the chemical in the phloem of the tree seems to be working.

Dan

There is another post with a commercial treatment which is all the rage and shows promise. That is an option.

EAB is killing healthy trees. No doubts. This is a chestnut blight type problem.

Still no warranty like I complain about lol.

The one tree service I spoke with says they use Tree-age with an Arborjet injection system. The ingredients are:

Active Ingredient:
Emamectin Benzoate.....................4.0%
Other Ingredients........................96.0%
Total.........................................100.0%

My first question is - How can a label only specify 4% of its active ingredients?

They priced it at $12 per diameter inch so I've estimated my trees to cost about $600 every other year with this method.

None of the trees directly impact or shade my house too much as they are at edges of property and behind the garage. I actually wouldn't feel too bad if we got rid of the one behind the garage. (I feel a bit guilty writing that because it is a big, beautiful tree.) It would totally open up a pretty unusable chunk of my backyard. The sun would allow me to add raspberries, more veggie gardens or roses, none of which I can put back there now due to shade. Another one is closely situated to a neighbors large non-ash tree so the loss of canopy would be minimal and might even be beneficial to their tree. So, I guess I could live without and/or replace what we've got without to much problem.

Are tree removals preemptive or after they've been attacked?

save your money for removal.. when they die ...

ken

When EAB first started, many many trees were removed as a buffer zone. Didn't work. Then cities removed even more, preemptively for some reason. After the inevitable public outcry, they are looking at key trees/areas with injection treatments, as above. On private property, you can let stand until attacked, then a service will remove properly and contain the buggers.

Dan

I've attached an article you might find interesting.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click here!

I get all the TCIA stuff and IMHO they seem to lean toward the commercial injections. I suspect the homeowner might be able to get away with the Bayer product, but diligence is key. I forget the exact numbers, but recently a Journ Arbor found excellent survivability with Imidichloprid soil drenches.

Dan

I actually wouldn't feel too bad if we got rid of the one behind the garage. (I feel a bit guilty writing that because it is a big, beautiful tree.) It would totally open up a pretty unusable chunk of my backyard. The sun would allow me to add raspberries, more veggie gardens or roses, none of which I can put back there now due to shade.

====>>> and why is it still there ??? KILL IT!!!!

Another one is closely situated to a neighbors large non-ash tree so the loss of canopy would be minimal and might even be beneficial to their tree. So, I guess I could live without and/or replace what we've got without to much problem.

====>>>>> why are you feeling guilty .. trees live.. trees die.. sometimes we shorten the period ...

be done with them .. seriously.. 300 bucks per year FOREVER ????? and they still dont have me convinced it will work .. though i am not current on it all ... though rhizo's article seems to support my thoughts ...

hmm.. can i be your tree guy.. and you pay me 600 bucks every other year for an unproven remedy ... [snake oil]] ... and then you can pay me to take them down later [another check] ..

yeah.. i broke my heart to cut mine down.. a few years back.. they are gone.. replaced.. i am happy ...

give up the emotional attachment... think of it all as an OPPORTUNITY to change the landscape of your yard.. rather than the loss of a bunch of diseased, bug-infested dying trees ...

and for a shiny penny.. i will tell you what i really think.. lol

ken

Is the general consensus that EAB will eventually spread across the eastern USA? I have one ash in particular that has persistant purple leaves throughout the growing season I would hate to lose.

I have just attended yet another conference where EAB was discussed. And the consensus is still that Emamectin Benzoate (Tree Age) is the preferred treatment and that Imidicloprid (Bayer tree and shrub) will give you some control but is not as reliable. With any luck as more people treat the cost of Tree Age treatment will come down. Also before EAB gets to you, you could talk to others with the same concern and maybe form a group that could negotiate a lower treatment price.
After AEB moves through the area and kills all the untreated trees, treatment will become a less frequent task.
As for fertilizing.
1. Fertilizing trees does not make them healthier unless they are actually in need of it which is rare for most trees!!!!
2. Yes healthy trees make a difference to a tree being able to ward off some borers such as Bronze Birch Borer, but makes no difference to Emerald Ash, or Asian Longhorned.
No one can tell you what to do about the cost factor, but you absolutely can keep your Ash alive if you are willing to spend the money.
Don't spend the money on treatment until Emerald Ash Borer is actually at your doorstep, treatment with Emamectin Benzoate works even if the tree is already 30% infected. I am not suggesting that you wait for 30% infestation, just presenting the fact.
As for pesticides, there is a balance between the amount of toxic substance added to the environment from the use of a pesticide, and increase in pollution that the loss of a mature tree will add to the environment. Trees filter out a lot of Co2 and if shading a house reduce the amount of carbon fuels that need to be burned.

IPM brings up a good point about homeowners and soil drench applications. That's my concern: receiving waters will get hit with these chemicals. There's the likelihood that the Bayer-type products will get more use as they are much cheaper.

Thanks for getting the word out. Now if we can see it more often in the newspapers...

Dan

New to the Forum, thought I would chime in and provide some needed facts on EAB and it's management. Yes, I am in the industry.
EAB will attack healthy and weak trees, wtih little enough distinction, that it isn't worth hoping your tree is healthy enough to withstand the attack. The greatest challenge is that evidence of attack is not typically visible until 2 years after it begins. Early signs include woodpeckers, flicking the bark from upper branches (searching for larvae). Secondary symptom is a gradual thinning of canopy. Later symptoms include massive flush of growth about 10 feet up the tree (Epicormic sprouting) as tree tries to save it self, and or bark splitting and D shaped exit holes.
The insect begins near the top of the tree and subsequent generations will work lower down the tree. Typically trees die within 3-5 years of infestation.

Trees can be saved, and previous notes have addressed the fact that not all products are considered effective, or equally effective. Some work ok, while infestation levels are low, or in early stages. Others don't use an adequate enough dose to protect the tree. For others, their application methods are questionable.
Homeowners do have choices, but often lack the scientific knowledge to know who to trust. I am big on trusting the sicence, not the marketing. So, let me give you a run down on a couple of the products and method, strengths and weaknesses.

Soil drench (typically a product called imidaclprid), but sold under various brands. Regardsless of dose and frequency of treatment, it must be applied annually, Found in big box stores, it is mixed and then poured into the soil. It is cheap. Once the pest builds in population, it is has been shown to require at least 2 treatments a year for effective control, or the tree continues to decline despite your efforts. It is only legal for a homeowner to put one application down a year. Any organic matter under your tree will adversly effect root uptake. Leaching risk so avoid use near water, where it can leach into street, or storm drains, etc.

Some tree companies are selling a double strength version of this, which is more effective, but legal limits prevent using it on more than about 5 -12" trees per acre.

Trunk Injection: There are three basic versions of this out there, they are radically different in their approaches. Two use that same product placed in soil drenches, one product sold by Arborsytems and used by a few arborists, has no scientific data supporting its ability to protect ash trees. Lots of customer remarks, but the science suggests that not enough product is placed into trees to protect them once the pest is present in large numbers. My experience suggests that only when this method is combined with both soil drenching and leaf spraying have they had any luck, and even then for only 1 year, needing to retreat yearly. Again, no research has been shown to support their claims.

Cap technologies (Mauget and others) have had better control, still not as good, under high pest pressure, which occurs in the years before your tree is going to die, but better. It does have science behind it, but evidence suggests that trees may continue to decline despite treatment. Treatment is annual, and used by arborists only.

Trunk injection using Arborjet's products. They created a new chemistry. It is called TREE-age (emamectin benzoate), and it is labeled for two years of protection from a single treatment. This is a bit more expensive for the applicator (when buying a bottle), and only for sale to professionals who are licensed, but it works, it works so well, that all the universities who have conducted research, and there are many, rank it as the number one product on the market. It's ability to control these critters is over 90% approaching 100%. Because treatment protects for two years, many cities only treat every third year.

What I have seen for your expected cost on this for your tree is that most arborists, or tree professionals will do the work for between $7 - $12 per inch of tree diameter, measured about 4.5 feet up the tree. So a 10" ash will cost you $70 - $120. for at least two years protection. Divide in half to see your yearly cost.

Something I haven't seen discussed, is that EAB will come into your area, kill all the unprotected trees in a relatively short period 5-7 years, and then their population will crash. It does this because it only reproduces and feeds on ash species. Once that occurs, the frequency of treatment may come down, meaning, you may be able to treat even less frequently to protect your tree, as popoulations will not be in high numbers.

Finally, cost of removing and replacing a tree on your property or a city street is often so much more expensive than treatment of that tree, that you could treat your tree, for 30 years before it equals the cost of removal and replacement. A simple example, a removal of a mature tree on your property could approach $1000. and replacement could apprach $300 if you have it planted. Treatment of that same tree could be $150. every 3rd year. Even if you don't replace it, that is 20 years before costs are equal.

Let's talk dose. I am not an advocate for soil drenching, as you might have discerned. Dose must be larger to assure that it makes it from the soil to the roots and up into the tree. The risk of unintended leaching is highest, and the treatment is not as effective based on the research. Trunk injection with this new product, TREE-age uses a small dose, seals it in the tree with a plug, and places it in the trees vascular system. This means the lowest dose, with the highest efficacy, tucked away from environmental risks.
Someone mentioned that 4% product, with 96% inerts is a concern. I will point out that vinegar is 5% acetic acid, and the rest of that isn't stated on the label either. Typically, this means that the remainder is water, or carrying agents, to disperse the product in the trees. The EPA requires that anything which is considered a pest control ingredient be listed on the container.

Because it is only 4% active ingredient, the part that actually kills the pest, when you treat a 17" diameter ash tree (the average street tree across the midwest by the way), it requires a dose of 75ml (about 2.5 oz) total to protect the tree. The active ingredient part of that is only 3ml, or about a half a teaspoon of active product to protect the tree for 2 years. I'd say the environmental risk of using that versus losing countless thousands of urban forest ash, is clearly obvious.

Perhaps next time, I will get into the other measurable benefits of these ash to your properties. In the meantime I would encourage a visit to: www.emeraldashborer.info there are two articles there, one discusses environmental impacts of systemic insecticides for EAB, and the other is a white paper put together in 2009 by all key researchers, on how the various chemical peformed against EAB.

Take some time, look at the research, you can save your tree, and for far less than it will cost you to remove it.

Thanks you treedoctor, hope you stick around.

Arktrees

Arktrees,

Thanks, there is so much misinformation on this pest, and as I have come to learn, about most things where people have a chance to make a name for themselves, make or lose money, etc.

So, sharing what I know is the latest research, accurately, is very important. I have attended numerous seminars and spoken to the actual people doing the research. I have seen their publications. This is an important edge. The people who are the "go to" researchers: Dr. McCullough (MSU), Dr. Smitley (MSU), Dr. Herms (OSU). Most others are peripheral to the main body of work, but contribute in specific areas, such as economic impacts, etc.

One thing I forgot to mention last time, is the trend in state quarantines. I am seeing more states, PA being the most recent, to lift the ban on inter-county movement of firewood, from counties under quarantine, to those not quarantined. Federal inter-state quarantines still stand.

While the theory is that EAB outbreak in the state is essentially unstoppable, what I believe is going to happen is that it will accelerate the spread into surrounding states. While it is inevitable that EAB will reach most if not all states, giving a currently non-infested state time to plan is critical.

For instance, it may now be possible for people losing ash to EAB in the western part of the state of PA, to sell it as firewood in the east, say for instance, Philly. If that is accurate, it means that NJ and CT will face the pest much sooner than expected.

Looking at the spread, we have to remember that in most places that it's been found in the last 3 years, the pest was actually there, undetected for up to six years! Our detection methods are improving, but it merely confirmes what I have been thinking... it is likely that EAB is everywhere ash grow at this point ( east of the rockies) we just haven't found it yet. I am not trying to evoke fear, but planning for this pest is essential, especially, if you are a city with large numbers of ash.

Since we now know that a city can save it's trees at a substantially lower cost than removal and replacemnent, it requires a shift in dynamic from chainsaws and chipppers to equipment to preserve these trees ( a much lower cost alternative).

Welcome to the forum. Great post. Very informative.

Sounds like the cost of treatment continues to drop.

I have 5 large Ash trees - about 80 years old. I have been planting more trees, but I will be long gone before they are big enough to enjoy.

Could you recommend a specific product, where to buy and application info or links?

I was looking to hire the treating done, but haven't had any luck. I was just told to cut them down before they get infested - which makes no sense to me.

I am at least 1/2 mile from the nearest other Ash tree and the trees show no sign of infestation yet. I'd like to keep these from getting infested if possible

Thanks very much.

5 miles is the danger radius for EAB. If you contact a tree service with an ISA certified arborist, you'll be able to get injection quotes. Your cost for 5 will be several hundred dollars every 2 years. The issue with consuming a product from, say, Home Depot for soil drench is that it is understood now that over-pour that gets into a flower that bees visit will harm bees, so it is best to contact a professional.

Do you have any recommendations on how to find a professional? I've been asking around and making some phone calls. All I get is - Get the chain saw out.

I am south of Kankakee and North of Champaign, Illinois

The emamectin benzoate products-TriAge, etc. are rated for 3 solid years of protection. Know anyone with a commercial pesticide applicators license? such an individual could buy this restricted-use material (Well over $500 for a liter) and you, Mr. tree owner, could treat your own trees if you purchase the equipment to do so. This is precisely the route one of my sons is taking on his ash-heavy property north of Milwaukee. that is, BTW, the hot spot for EAB in Wisconsin right now, but we've got them up here in the Fox Valley as well now. They're on the move!

The equipment my son purchased was the ArborJet injector stuff. It's not too terribly difficult to manage if you don't mind spending some time at it. and despite the expense of the chemical, tiny amounts per tree are all that's required. Of course, there is a down side, and for me, it's the need to drill holes into the bases of your trees every three years or so.

+oM

Does your son ever head south? I have a side job for him. Can you send me links to all the stuff? And directions for application?

Seriously, if your son heads down this way I would hire him to do the dirty deed.

really jr ... all your questions have repeatedly been answered ... and i will find you a local certified arborist at the link below ..

ken

https://www.google.com/search?q=Champaign%2C+Illinois&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=Champaign%2C+Illinois+arborists

What is the success rate of the latest treatments? Last time I looked it was more or less unknown.

I'm not sure I have the material around any more, but the injectable Imidicloprid is the standard right now, what works. But it is a commitment for the life of the tree. Interestingly, out here in Colo Boulder won't use it on their trees. Flew back from the TCI conference last fall with a state entomologist who remarked along the lines of 'I guess they want their trees to die then'. Also, IIRC the latest decision point is that under ~8" DBH, replace tree as economics doesn't work for a lifetime of injections.

Dan, I'm sure you meant the emamectin benzoate to be the top dog in EAB treatment right now, right? 3 yrs. versus 1 looks like a winner to me.

When we did my son's trees....er....when I helped set him up, we concluded that there was simply no way we were going to do soil drench in his flood plain forest. Much too high a water table to be pouring insecticides on the ground. And since he's mechanically competent, it was a simple enough matter to get him set up with the Arborject equipment.

+oM

Ken I have not seen or found instructions on how exactly you do the injections.

I am also still shopping for the best place to buy product. And which brand is currently the best buy for the buck. Like car parts you can find chemical for a variety of prices. I would like somebody in the know to advise me. I can not afford to pay double what I have to.

I have some health problems that cause me difficulty in sorting things out sometimes. The answer can be right there, But I might never see it unless the manner in which it is displayed is changed. My wife frequently finds this very annoying.
Thanks for the link and further advice.

Jeff Palmer Illinois Sales rep arborjet six51 9five5 3319

http://arborjet.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjw96aqBRDNhM6MtJfE-wYSJADiMfgg7NpZO3_0Nv3airxcIvTQmTlVuivQQlZhdGBtCAZY3RoCctvw_wcB

wisconsitom, I have not priced the equipment yet. If the equipment is expensive, would you be interested in renting the equipment?

The way I rented my timing tools for diesel engines was to require a cash deposit equal to the value of the tools plus $20. When the tools were returned in good condition I returned their cash - which I kept in an envelope - except the $20 I charged for rent. I would have aslo used Paypal.

I do not know how or if I can send a private message here.

http://arborjet.com/index.php/arborjet_near_you/dealer-search-results/?x=0&y=0&zip=60927&type=9

Aardvark Lawns
265 N Jefferson ave
Bradley , IL 60915815-932-187115.22 miles Arbor Tek Services, Inc.
2092 Oak Leaf Street
Joliet, IL 60436815-725-004439.97 miles Barr Treecare
1919 Clearing Ct.
New Lenox, IL 60451815-521-805539.93 miles Wiley Tree Care, Inc.

Mokena , IL 60448708-479-620041.55 miles Aspen Tree & Turf Care

Oak Forest , IL 60452708-653-2186
http://www.aspentreeandturf.com47.59 miles TruGreen

Crestwood, IL 60445(877) 243-652949.61 miles Four Seasons Arbor Service, Inc.

Crestwood, IL 60445(708) 371-543949.61 miles TruGreen

Merrillville, IN 46410(877) 243-652949.87 miles F.A. Bartlett Tree Expert
751 N Bolingerbrook Drive
Bolingbrook, IL 6044053.8 miles Vostry's Tree Care

Bolingbrook , IL 60440630-759-303553.8 miles Tree & Turf Professionals, Inc
751 N Bolingbrook Dr
Bolingbrook, IL 60440630-759-7389
http://www.treeandturf.com53.8 miles Steve Piper & Sons Inc

Naperville, IL 60564(630) 898-605055.45 miles The Care of Trees
8871 Ramm Dr
Naperville , IL 60564630-692-11055.45 miles Heartwood Tree and Landscape Solutions

Mahomet, IL 61853217-489-327156.01 miles Royal Oaks Corp

Bridgeview, IL 60455708-599-070055.99 miles TruGreen

Hickory Hills, IL 60455(877) 243-652955.99 miles Sullivan Landscaping

Mahomet, IL 61853(217) 586-557356.01 miles F.A. Bartlett Tree Expert
6813 Hobson Valley Drive
Woodridge, IL 6051757.1 miles Walter Kokidko
157 North 500 West
Valpariso, IN 46385219-476-558058.79 miles TruGreen

Champaign, IL 61822217-689-4

First call was $300 plus per tree to have somebody do it.

Tom, maybe I read the question incorrectly - OTC it is Imidacloprid, professionally (overall), Emmamectin Benzoate. I haven't seen recommendations that it lasts three years, though. A conference I attended (Denver) showed the economics of treatment vs replacement and gave bi-yearly treatments for the cost calculation.

Yup, we're seeing up to 3 years with the TreeAge. Of course, this whole thing is still young. Maybe another method will show up that is still better. But from anything I've seen, Emmamectin B is a good 3-year protection. Now if only I would standardize my spelling of that chemical name!

+om

In 2003 a landscape nursery in the DC capital area purchased ash trees from Michigan. While there were some attempts to halt the spread of EAB to surrounding areas, the damage was done.

Here are some parking lot ash trees at my county library in Maryland this morning.