Loger: It pretty well is up to the end-user . Both Manufacturers produce a Quality rod. I use a lot of Low Hydrogen (7018) mostly because of the superior tensile strength and overall better quality appearance of the weld.
I also find that Lincoln has a much better flux disposition off the weld which translates into better penetration and overall weld quality . However the Hobart welds are of a high quality also , there just seems to be more of a slag issue and necessity for chip hammer or file usage . The Lincoln flux seems to peel (curl) right off as the weld cools .
As for economics the Hobart Rods seem to sell for about 20% cheaper locally here in the Great White North . It adds up . So in summary either Rod will do the job . I really think its a personal choice . $$$ vs appearance :)

"Have you tried Northern ToolâÂÂs HobartâÂÂs E6011 Arc Welding rods compared to Lincoln E6013? "

6011 & 6013 have different penetration, with the 6011 being deeper.
Use what's appropriate for your needs.

Back when I had a welder, I'd buy smaller quantities to keep them "fresher". If you don't have proper storage, the flux eventually absorbs moisture and deteriorates.

Thanks for the info. I need to do some experimenting. LincolnâÂÂs 1/8â E6013 has been the bulk of my use since 1964 (due to the General Purpose use). We went through so many (for general use at work) that storage was never an issue before retiring. The double walled sealed Army shell box inside is probably what saved the excessive rods that long. That old box (maybe 12X12x16â deep int) became too much to store once I worked the 50 lbs down. I went to smaller metal and plastic sealed containers that appears to work.

I am seeing more generic âÂÂEtc Selectâ rods at suppliers. I feel they are major brands that will do the general projects and repair jobs vs any certified welding jobs. I might make a repair or project once a month now vs daily when I did General Metalworking.

Loger: Think we have been down this road a few times , realize that you are a recreational welder . Another consideration is of what position or type of welding voltage (AC vs DC) you utilize. Various Rods serve better within certain welding criteria . I can only assume the majority of your welding projects enable a Flat Welding Position. Therefore 6011 , 6013 of either Hobart or Lincoln will serve your purpose. When you entertain Vertical or Overhead Postioned welds your rod selection and voltage and amperage selection will vary . Keep Them Rods Dry !

As 2 men stated above, the 6011 is best for penetration and worst for appearance. One recommended way of using 6011 is to scratch to start the arc, form a puddle, then scratch over the unwelded area, back to the puddle, scratch, etc.

This keeps an arc going, preheats the steel to be yet welded, and doesn't cause blow through.

I'm glad I don't have to explain this to a woman. It sounds so sexual.

The Lincoln 1/8â E6013 has been ideal over the years for general purpose use (1/16-1/4â mild steel, penetrating, cleaning, strength and appearances. From a glance, I did not see 1/8â E6013 at Northern or Lincoln rods vs Hobartâ 6011. For my purpose almost any close rod will do.

If I remember correctly, in one welding class/workshop we had to run a bead with bars rods to establish a feel of controlling an arc. That was not fun but a point was proven.

Loger: For the form of welding practices that you have advised , 1/8" 6013 can not be beat . It has medium penetration traits and good overall cap weld appearance.
Should you anticipate overhead postion welding or poor environment welding , then you will mostly likely favour the welding characteristics of 6010 Rod. When you find yourself looking for x-ray quality welds then select 7018 or 7016 Specialty Rods , but a Heating Oven will be required for Storage / Preusage at all times , probably prior to working for Chip foose lol.

Thanks for the replies/feedback/follow-ups missing in many cases that adds good closure.

I found about 9 lbs of Airco 1/8â 7018 Electrodes in my stash (Slow Me Airco Is Lincoln!). Odd, I feel a Steel Construction Worker gave them to me to try, knowing I was stuck on Lincoln 1/8 E6013. Sealed in a nice Aluminum container, with 9.5 capacity marked vs 10 lbs which I felt was odd.

ThatâÂÂs what IâÂÂll try next and probably did once before since a few were missing from the odd size container (with metal and flux looking new). A yardman asked yesterday if I would help him put a heavier hitch on his Riding Mower that he uses to get his Utility/Mowing/Trailer into his tight and soft back area. I asked him to send back and side view pics of the Cadet Cub I paid no attention to in the past. My philosophy is not to weld if bolting is just as good or better. Most people want the Quick Fix but it will be w/o my help if graded bolts will work just as good or better. This will be interesting since a ball is there but too weak for the application over time. From a glance online this might be a welding and bolting matter (he mentioned this pointed look attached).

Hello Ewalk, North TX is an Oven, do you feel more is needed on this level of welding?

Loger: 1st again ensure your 7018 (low hydrogen) rods are heated prior to usage . 2nd Ensure all plating is removed (grinding) prior to welding . 3rd Bolting is always preferred method to affix hitchs with adequate tensile grade fasteners for the load intended. 4th Always ensure lap joints vs butt joints when ever possible . In your pictured application inverted right angled trianangle gussets would give better vertical and radial stress load capacity at the hitchs tongue along with additional rectangular gusset 1/2 way from the tongue on each horizontal arm which also could be bolted to the tractor frame assembly if feisable for additional strength. This may seem like over kill but a safety factor should always be factored in . I usually use 6011 for the root pass,s and 6013 or 7018 for the final cap pass,s for better appearance.

P.S. Earlier this spring made a few Class II hitchs and recievers for our Rhino's Hunting Atv's and one Class IV for my Motor Home. My Buddy could not tell the difference from the Manufacturered product complete with Grade 7 fasteners.Have fun with your projects Bro !

Thanks Ewalk! I understand all except the need to preheat due to my lack of experience. Overkill is my choice with laps vs butts and Etc. I have built 2-3 light utility trailers VS realizing what they might be used for later. Without any real issues, I have learned to avoid the liability applications/projects as others. I learned that friends will miss-lead you with their needs. My welding was intended as personal projects/repairs vs ever helping on outside repairs. You Live And You Learn!

PS. RobertâÂÂs Bright Trailer was on our angle axle tube with VW spindles to support his VWâÂÂs wheels and wheel base tracking (80-90s). Then we got into more firewood and his Zero Turn mower (mid 2000âÂÂs). We quartered the trailer to make it a 7âÂÂX5â (an added ft in width/length in two 6 hr fun shifts). Trying to hold him down to his Dixon mower and no more than a low load of seasoned to dry oak wood has been a challenge. Load limits have no meanings to many if they have gotten by overloading.

Loger: Good idea within reducing the liability wether Legal or Moral . Some people will always push the envelope when hauling material. As for preheating , I was referring to the 7016 or 7018 rod issue . The low Hydrogen Rod Flux as previously discussed will take on moisture very quickly and reduce the overall effectiveness / appearance of the weld quality. As you discovered it will darken and crack which will result in long arcing and dragging causing splatter . If the flux breaks off mid rod the rod is rendered useless. Usually if rods become wet I will Preheat quickly within a Domestic Electric Range Oven in a pinch at 250 F for 20 minutes to dry and either use or re-store in a dry environment . Have a Great Weekend Bro , off to Bed for this Old-Timer its been a long Day ...Ty !

Loger, have you ever Mig welded? I think it would be suitable for most of your projects of 1/4" steel and thinner.

".......Should you anticipate overhead postion welding or poor environment welding , then you will mostly likely favour the welding characteristics of 6010 Rod........."

6010 is a DC only electrode.

Thanks To ALL! I Retired To Relax vs Work. As mentioned my welding is mainly on repairs/projects in my range. Wrought Iron Designs (fences/furniture, machinery repairing/modifying) is my main interest. My little 50 yr old Lincoln AC 180K (180 Amps/220v) welder is all I need or will afford.

Attached is a plant stand that had a marble top and a foot higher until it fell over and broke my neighborâÂÂs toe. She put the metal base on the curb and I beat the metal recyclers to it. I reduced the height a foot, bent legs out wider, added a wooden top, and bordered with wooden guards on the top (for safety). I barely finished it before my wife gave it to my Mother-In-Law before I could give it back to the Neighbor. LOL.

This is my intended level of fun welding vs work or liabilities. I usually let little projects and repairs accumulate unless itâÂÂs a need.

PS. I guess weâÂÂll have to build a fire any day now. I have not seen or smelt any but IâÂÂm sure some have fired up. There are so few of us that still use our fireplaces or heaters in the area. Have A Good Restful Winter!

Bill K : Yep your correct 6010 is a DCEP (Direct Current Electrode Positive) AWG All Position Rod . Primarily preferred for overhead position root pass's due to it's better penetration and absence of slag inclusion and porosity potential . 6011 would be my second choice for this form overhead position work on Piping or Structural Work with either 6013 or 7018 for the cap lateral finishing pass,s
Loger: Nice Ornamental Recycling I would rethink the liability factor since the Motherinlaw is involved lol ,

Overhead welding is out of my comfort zone or practice vs some vertical if I have a guide due to a lap, "V" vs a butt weld. 95% of my welds except for tacks are flat. âÂÂYOUâ need to be able to flip whatever repair or Pass On By. LOL.

Just Practice ...lots of Practice and a steady hand ! Actually I see your 220 Buzz Box is only Single Phase AC so I guess you exclude 6010 . Hell you like 6013 and with 6011 for your root , as previously advised your set to do most everything you require. Just another point , use your 6011 for all tacking requirements due to quality penetration and slag exclusion properties. P.S. Hey how far are you from Texas Motor Speedway ? Watching JJ lead the Nascar Sprint Race 130 laps remaining .

IâÂÂll guess IâÂÂm about 20+ mi off the I-35N location. Coming from I-35S, to fish Lake Ray Roberts (out of Sanger past Denton) that was a nightmare. Before we got too old to fish (LOL) we used Hwy 377 to get past the track before 3PM in the summer (on this 02 map). Returning after 12AM was not a problem.

Well , have been in your area more or less . Arlington for a Texas Ranger Game when Buddy Bell was their active 3rd baseman . yeah a few yrs ago lol . Beautiful Stadium and lots of Cold Pearl Beer on Tap. Well not too much was riding my Harley Electra-Glide back in that era. Shot a few games of pool in Fort Worth and Houston also , stayed out of Dallas way to confined (traffic) for this Dude. Remember following a Trucker with a rather unique Bumper Sticker. P.S. Three Things a Texan Hates ! Micks , Spicks and Yankee's with U-Hauls ! Well you take care back to Sunday Night Football , Monday Comes Early..Chow..Ty !

My entire 30-40 lbs stock off Old Electrodes Are Scrap Metal 1/16 and 1/8â of all numbers mentioned and more. Time has gotten to them all with (with flux attached w/o cracks on all). Some 1/8â 6011 allowing me to run 1.5â long beads tacking rebar to pipe to be buried as sleeves. I wanted the12â X þâ rebar to help hold concrete to and 4â below the 2â sleeves.

One possibility is EwalkâÂÂs oven treatment on the 7018 I thought were good. It is a damp day here today and at 140 amps I c/n strike and continue an arc. If the lack of oven heat to rem moisture was the cause, that was a good lesson. Without an oven and the approx age they will be trashed with the others as I re-stock with 6013 or 6011. You Live, Learn And Forget, Without Practice.

Off to Granger to get a 12 Hr Spring Wound Timer # 2E052 and wanted to let one trip do but GrangerâÂÂs electrodes 6011 X 10 Lbs are higher, Why? Such as, Hobart 1/8â 6011 X 10 lbs at Granger = 49.50 and 25.00 at Northern Tools. But! Granger has Hobart 1/8â 6011 X 5lbs = 15.99 and Northern 13.99. For my testing, IâÂÂll try Grangers 15.99 x 5 Lbs. Grainger c/n explain their price range differences of 5 lbs vs 10 lbs not to mention compared to Northern.

A âÂÂquick/rough trialâ of my Grainger vs Granger purchases today (both were interesting in the short time slots to experiment).

1. The differenced in the my past 1/8â Lincoln 6013 electrode vs 6011 was the most interesting and will work when I take time to get in tune with the 6011.

2. There were differences as I was told and could see but getting a feel for the best amperage and controlling will come with practice.

3. It appeared the 6011 will use more rods than the 6013 and the flow's appearance is an animal but no concern.

4. The newer 6011 had an instant arc, deep penetrating arc and lots more set at 120 and 100 amps on 3/16 mild steel.

The 12 hr spring wound timer had changed a little in 20 - 30 yrs but it worked and cut-off as designed. IâÂÂll get the surface box mounted and be back in business. It might be a slight learning curb or minimal timing IâÂÂll have to read about (one click on took too long to turn off IMO). Such as, turned to the first click seemed longer than 30 minutes (as the increments appear to represent).

Both quick experiments went well for the time spent and some improvements will come later.

I will not win a contest with Lincoln E6011 Rods but will get my jobs done. IâÂÂll go back to E6013 used 50 yrs (for the 2-3 dollars more X 5 lbs. Then I will feel competitive and in control again. A second pass helps appearances.

TodayâÂÂs challenge was to reduce an 80s adjustable Basketball GoalâÂÂs post built initially for our Middle School Daughter. With backboards and height options, it should last through some Grands and Greatgrands.

The big objective was to reduce the backboard to post offset which removed some dead weight making it a safer post.

PS. Will placing the E7018 rods close to the fireplace for hours take care of the moisture issuer since I d/n have a suitable oven. If that will work, IâÂÂll be willing to experiment and if successful, find an oven. If this does work, the rods should last for a period in the sealed aluminum storage container (taped to seal) for a period vs heating before each use (Correct?). The flux is not cracking and holding on good as on most of my old rods (non were in open air vs a sealed 5 gal plastic container).

Yeah, the 6011s are little different breed. 7018 rods at my place never see an oven. I keep them wrapped and in a metal cabinet. Treat them gently.Being moved around probably doesn't help. My guess is if you have been watching your handling and the flux is in good shape , it will be fine enough. I know they like to keep them in an oven. I had thought about plumbing a light bulb in my rod cabinet - which is basically a 20 -24 inch cube, but I never have. Maybe I'm asking for it as it is damp more than it is dry here. I figure these rods sit on the store shelf for how long? They can be warmed in an electric oven I'm told. My last puller project, I felt better using 7018's rather than testing my skills w/ the mig or tig and they worked fine. I heated the metal up ahead though.

This post was edited by tomplum on Sat, Feb 1, 14 at 20:47

Thanks Tom!

I guess I need to experiment both heating metal and heating rods. Am I missing the flux is not doing the job due to moisture/age/damage but added heat activates the flux to do the job. If so, itâÂÂs a job to job matter and job size vs drying the old rods (correct)?

Really, if you are welding something hefty enough- preheating tends to protect the area outside the weld puddle from losing its strength and possibly cracking. Good to do if strength is an issue. Now, my Lincoln rods that I get are 7018AC. I get them as I was told that they have an easier strike, especially on a re-strike. Reading above, I wonder if you bought the 7018 acdc rods? This rod puddle sets quicker, kind of comparing a 6011 vs a 6013 in that regard. So the melted flux forms over the ned of the rod and insulates it from re-striking easily. A scrape and you should be good to go. As far as the flux goes, I would guess as long as it stays in place it should do its job. MAybe I'm wrong and it loses some of its properties. I'm not an expert. Years ago an old buddy of mine was finishing a heavy mounting of some sort and was cussing that the rods were bad. Too long ago, but maybe this was the dreaded 7018 problem.He dropped the last he had into a bucket of water so he could use them to finish....

Thanks Tom!
I was given the AC/DC 7018 (attached) By a Steel Construction Welder which makes sense with him using a DC Welder in the field (most likely. He knew the E6013 was my only experience and wanted me to see the difference in the welds (possibly d/n know I only had AC. BUT! The container says AC/DC. They are a Bear to start and try to run a bead at my usual 120 amp setting. They are over 10 yrs old and I am almost sure I used them with some success over 10 yrs ago. They still look new in color and good flux condition. out of the sealed container (but I doubt tape has all ways been on the seam sealing it.

I made a ref to darker color once that referred to my old 6011s since I was not use to that color as being normal maybe until I purchased my first 6011 recently. My old 6011s were one step from the Scrap Metal until I realized my old worked with both being New Animals to me. The new did work better but the old did some course welding (rebar to pipe that would be sleeves in concrete in the ground. I might need to play with my amps more on 6011. With the deeper penetration I needed to come down off my 120 to keep from burning the pipe but 140 w/ worked better on þ rebar and other heavy plate.

The Bottom Line! I h/n had time to experiment and do 1-3 projects due to instant needed repairs vs 10 or more per year in the past.

I think the steel construction guys like the ACDC as it would likely perform better for working overhead etc. It sounds like yours is an AC only? Even if it is DC, you can still use 7018AC rods and they work well. I've been working on improving my welding skills and can agree, when you only do a patch here and a stitch there- it becomes more challenging.