Tree roots invading raised beds?

9 years ago

Hi everyone, and happy Friday!

Last summer we removed 2 liquidambar trees in our backyard and put in two new raised beds. Initially I grew vegetables in them, but those #$%@! squirrels kept eating them so I decided to put roses (Souvenir De La Malmaison and Louise Odier, waiting expectantly in my pot ghetto) in instead. Yesterday I started turning the soil over in order to prepare for planting, and was horrified to find that it was completely overgrown with tree roots!

The soil I had put into the raised beds was a mix of potting soil and chicken manure, so it was nice and loose last fall. Now it's a tangled mess and I had to cut and pull out masses of what looks like reddish brown tree roots. The question is - what is causing the roots? Is it the redwood trees you can see around the corner of the house (about 30-40 ft away) or is it the ground down stumps of the liquidambar trees (about 5 ft from the boxes)? If it's the redwood trees then my roses probably have no chance, unless I dig in and remove all the roots every year, which I'm not looking forward to. :(

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Comments (6)

roseseek
9 years ago
Reddish brown roots are most likely the redwood. Liquid Amber roots are gray like their trunks and are often surface dwellers. Yup, tree roots grow ANYWHERE they can find resources. The richer and wetter the soil, the more they proliferate. If the soil in the raised beds was more like the standard stuff in your yard, the new roses would probably have as great a chance of success as the rose against your fence, closer to the redwood. I commiserate with you. I have to rip out white birch roots from an above ground planting two to three times a year. There are no drainage holes in the plastic liner used on top of the soil and held in place with large boulders and river rocks, yet the blamed roots figure out ways to grow up the insides of the rocks and over the lip of the liners, as well as punch holes in the liner bottom. There is no way to prevent tree roots from entering anything containing soil and water if there is any soil to container contact. It requires solid stone or solid concrete between them and the container, or they WILL find a way in. Good luck! Kim
Kippy
9 years ago
We find the neighbors Fir tree roots all over. I use a reciprocating saw and tree blade to discourage the roots from invading into beds here
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Imagine a rectangle that is 100ft by 50ft and that is my back yard. The house represents the East side of this rectangle. Solid fencing on the South side and the North side and a 4ft post and rail on the 100ft West side. We have only one tree in that rectangle and it is a NOID Maple in the far Northwest corner just about on the lot line. It’s 20 yrs old and about 25ft tall. I have two neighbors to the West of this rectangle. The back of their property meets in the middle point of my yard. The neighbor to the Northwest has three mature Silver Maples that start about 10ft on the other side of my post and rail fence. The neighbor on the Southwest corner, has a pool and one mature Silver Maple that is less than 5 ft on the other side of my post and rail fence. Then there is the South side where that neighbor has a 60yr old Silver Maple that is double the size of the others. And that is less than 10ft away from my solid wood fence in the Southwest corner. If that isn’t bad enough, I have a neighbor to the north that has 6 mature Spruce trees and a mature London Plane tree all within 5ft of the solid fence on my north boundary all squeezed in to a 45 ft length. I do appreciate the privacy and I use the leaves. One neighbor even throws all his leaves into my yard, at my request. So I do benefit from them all, but …trying to grow a garden here is just a little bit of a challenge. I do seem to be able to do okay with the raised vegetable beds but it’s been awhile since I dug in any of them. I am going to dig them all this spring when I am replacing the frames and see if any of those tree roots are finding their way into my beds. The beds are positioned in the North side of the rectangle with no obstructions to the south of them. The west side of the vegetable space is about 15ft away from our Maple. Or maybe it is more, because it is not under the drip line. So the trio of silver maples is another 10ft beyond that. The North side of the vegetable space is about 20ft away from the neighbor’s spruces and LP tree. There’s just lawn to the south of it and a single car garage is to the east of it. I wanted to add more beds to the west side of the vegetable space, which would make that one bed about 5ft closer to the 3 silver maples and my maple. I have been mulling over the solutions suggested and I’ve been reading more in other threads and on google. The idea of digging the roots out in a trench although more work, at first sounds like a good solution, but getting 10 years of no roots is just not going to happen with a silver maple. I think I would be lucky if I got 2 years out of it. And that is not the worst of it. What would concern me the most, is that cutting roots of the trees, could cause the roots to react like they’ve been pruned and they grow back with a vengeance. The idea of putting down barriers under the beds with the layers of plastic and possibly hardware cloth is a reasonable solution. I was going to put hardware cloth on the bottom of the bed anyway, but I do garden organically and using that plastic at the bottom of my beds, just doesn’t sit well with me. And I feel like I would be creating a ‘container’ instead of a raised bed that has access to the subsoil. I think those are the only two solutions too. So, I am seriously considering adding blueberry bushes instead of another vegetable bed on that west side of the vegetable space. And to expand with more beds, I can go to the south and take up a little more lawn and I might be able to squeeze another bed to the east closer to the garage. This weekend is supposed to be in the 40s, I can get out there and take some measurements and see if I can do what I’m thinking I might be able to do. And I'll check the distance from my Maple to the west side of the vegetable space because I am guessing. toxcrusadr, thanks for the suggestion of turning my compost pile more often. I have had a ‘no turn’ pile and I do leave it there a long time. That could work for me. All of your input has made the situation a lot clearer to me. Thanks! :-)
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Plant in the existing soil, between large roots, and use mulch to encourage establishment and growth. Do not pile mulch against the base of the fence or place anything else against it, that might cause the wood to be kept moist. (Also if the bottom cross pieces are resting on the soil the dirt should be dug out beneath them so they do not rot. The depth need only be enough to eliminate soil contact). Fruit should be out in the open, where it gets full light. Persimmons are hot summer climate trees, not a regular feature of British plantings. In addition to the R.H.S. web site and magazine you can get ideas for plants, read discussions of methodology in magazines that are on display at libraries and book stores - I see ones like B.B.C. Gardener's World and English Gardening over here. It seems a source in the U.K. itself might have multiple additional titles available. And as I believe was suggested previously visits to any nearby private or public gardens could be quite instructive. Public ones in particular might even have classes, guest speakers or other events of interest. If you are saying you want the plants to be hardy to the equivalent of 5 degrees F. then that is comparatively mild by continental U.S. standards, except in parts of the southern and Pacific Coastal areas. You can see here where you fit in relation to U.S. winter climates, with the coldest British USDA zoning being 7 whereas large sections of the U.S. fall well below that: http://www.trebrown.com/hrdzone.html Note - as it says in the discussion at the page linked to - that the minimum temperatures associated with each Zone are average temperatures and not the coldest it gets in each Zone.
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The roots may grow UP into the box as well unless it stands above the soil as shown. And the maple is still small--It will grow and your sun will become shade.
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fogrose
9 years ago
My sympathies are with you. My whole front yard inside the fence is invaded with Monterey Cypress roots. After much trial and error which included wine barrels (I put the barrels on the ground and the bottoms rotted and the tree roots filled up the barrels) I am now resorting to 25 gallon pots raised on concrete blocks and planted with roses. I hope you can find a way.

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toolbelt68
9 years ago
I would hire a backhoe crew to dig a trench around the drip line of that tree. Make it about 4-5 feet deep. Get some pond liner material and make one continuous strip. Place it in the trench making sure the top and bottom curves toward the tree. Fill the trench back up. You should see the top edge of the liner just laying on top of the ground. You can cover that with mulch or trim. Any roots headed outward will hit the liner and be directed back towards the tree. Should last for 20 or more years if you get good pond liner material.

If that tree puts up suckers from the cut off roots then all bets are off so check on that before digging the trench.

BTW they use this method to control bamboo. Maybe a search on bamboo control will give you a better method.

Toolbelt
roseseek
9 years ago
Interesting idea, perhaps, but not in California, particularly where there is any wind, rain or compacted soil. Damaging that level of root system is a sure fire way to induce Oak Root Fungus as well as losing the tree to wind. The drought here has already stressed trees (and everything else) terribly, Eliminating portions of their root systems is going to set them back tremendously, causing even more damage. IF we get the El Nino this winter, you can be completely sure whatever rains we receive will be followed by winds. Reducing the anchoring ability of the roots is highly likely to result in the tree falling over. All those damaged, severed roots remaining in the soil are prime fodder for Armillaria. There hasn't been any root disturbance here, yet the oak next door; several of their huge xylosma; several of my dodonea; my old, large Mutabilis; a few of my large hibiscus, have all either died, died back or otherwise suffered damage from the fungus. I lost the established, main part of the Mutabilis. Only a tip rooted piece further along the fence line remains...and that only until the mycelium reaches it. This soil isn't compacted nor is it water logged. They water significantly more than I do as they attempt to maintain lush plantings, while I do not.

No, I would not attack the roots of the redwood. There is far too much to lose, especially in such a severe, weird year. Kim
rathersmallbunny
Original Author
9 years ago
Thank you so much, everyone! I really appreciate your helpful and informative responses and it confirms what I suspect - that it's the redwood trees. Argh!

Since I think I'll just leave the trees alone and can't plant veggies or roses now in those beds, maybe I'll just fill them with raspberry bushes. They seem tough and vigorous enough to compete with the tree roots...hopefully!

Thanks again and have a happy weekend! :)

Tree roots invading raised beds?

Comments (6)

roseseek

Kippy

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Tree roots invading raised beds?

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roseseek

Kippy

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toolbelt68

roseseek

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