I'm excited just reading about it!

WELCOME TO WACKODOM!!! There is a thread on here somewhere (sorry I don't have the link) about "You might be a Compost Wacko if. . . ." that you'll probably enjoy if you haven't found it already.

I had a small bin out back I would toss kitchen scraps into and just kinda let them do their own thing. . . until I found this forum. My lil bin out back is now 3/4 full of beautiful black gold waiting to be applied to this year's veggie garden, has an old 4x4x3' orchard box as a neighbor, and seemingly never diminishing piles of UCG and branches awaiting shredding.

There's an unspoken rule in my house to "never come home with an empty truck". Bags of leaves left on the curb? Throw em in the truck! Pile of branch debris the local rotary club raked together? Throw em in the truck! Check Starbucks EVERY time I drive by. Cuz I can always throw UCG in the truck! I even got the mom & pop diner to give me some of their old pickle buckets. I put one in the breakroom at work and gave another to a coworker. Once a week I switch them out for clean ones, put the full buckets in the back of the truck, and add them to the middle of my orchard bin pile.

After 2 days of rain followed by 2 days of beautiful 50-60 degree temps I went to dig a hole in the middle of the orchard bin to add this week's compost buckets and found STEAM!!!! It was my first steam ever! (Well, that I had actually witnessed anyway) Then, as I dug down to the very center I noticed everything had an ashen coating. Was a thing of wonder and beauty and addictive craving lol.

Looking forward to hearing more about your adventures in composting!

I throughly enjoyed reading this post! Don't have any answers for you, but I enjoyed it!

Cathy

ps We want pics!!!

Yes, you are completely normal. Congratulations on the compost headstart for your hard won plants! The black stuff is finished compost.

I love composting for the something for nothing/alchemist/trash to treasure aspect. Not to mention that good homemade compost is something you cannot buy, really kicks a** in the garden, and is good for the whole planet by reducing methane emissions in our landfills. Having a compost pile makes me feel enlightened and it's good exercise. My neighbors are always impressed by my "magical" green thumb, and even though I tell them it's good dirt and my compost they never can be truly convinced. (Well, I also collect rainwater to use in dry spells.)

So many positive feelings, from one little activity! What's not to love?

Leslie, You have some great "Black Gold" Use it as a top-dressing for all your beds and gardens. Amend planting hole soil with your compost when you plant things. Start a new pile or bin for adding fresh stuff. Your black stuff is good to go. Congrats on your success and for your new found hobby.
Bill Hill

COOL! I knew there had to be others out there who would understand...

Helped out at the nursery again today for more free plants. The lady there is so cool... she also gave me a bunch of huge containers she doesn't need anymore. (Filled a bunch of those with old straw... to add to the new pile)

Grabbed a load of grounds from Starbucks on the way home.

Still no steam yet... :(

...so spent the rest of the evening pulling dandelions. (In the rain; my neighbors must think I'm nuts) By the time it got dark... I had dumped 5 huge pails full of weeds on the new pile too. It's already doubled in size since yesterday. About a foot and a half high.

Also...took 2 wheel barrows out of the original pile...the 'black gold' pile. Started adding it to the new beds, but didn't even make a dent in it; there must be about 3/4 of a yard left in there, or so. Very cool!

SO... when exactly should I start turning this new pile? I'm so far adding things in layers; spreading them out as evenly as I can. Watering every layer. (Rain did that for me today. I really want to see how fast I can get things cooking.

BTW, the girls at the nursery can't understand why I'm getting so excited over compost. Oh well. As for me, I'm feeling totally hooked...

I WILL remember to take pictures tomorrow... including pictures of those sloppy drunk night crawlers. (I noticed they still appear 'intoxicated' today...)

I'll post another update tomorrow...

Leslie in CO ;)

Leslie,
Your worms may be slow because it's been cold. I plucked a couple the other day and they weren't moving too fast either. When I was planting my berry bushes Thursday I actually brought a big fat earthworm into the house to show DH before I tucked it back under the mulch. He wasn't thrilled... I was happy though because I see very few earthworms. I have lots of compost worms, but I've seen only a few earthworms. I planted 4 trees and didn't see one worm before I dug this one.

Yea I noticed it too..there's just something about composting that feeds the obsessive compulsive instinct that manifests itself in this forum as well.

I think your worms are just drunk with happiness. :-)

One day at at time Leslie.

If you can stop composting for thirty days, we will give you a coin.

you inherited two gifts from the previous owners ... not only a wonderfully-decomposed pile of bacteria-tastic organic matter but also the desire to reuse the waste your yard will naturally produce to make your soil thrive.

when i moved into my house four years ago, like you, i was positively itchin' to start a compost heap and, like you, i needed to make that first pile STEAM. to accomplish that, i found a nearby riding stable & hauled home a couple truck-loads of manure mixed with sawdust & piled it in a pile. problem solved. steam-o-rama! a year later ... sweet, sweet compost!

so yep, achieving a steaming pile is a mighty grand goal ... but while you're assembling that first steaming pile, keep thinking longer-term ... how do you want to make compost always in the space you will have to do it in? there are a zillion variations but from reading this forum, you know the basics are: a continuous source of browns, a continuous source of greens, water, air, and space to play.

you already have space for a Finished Pile ... with, apparently, room to roll around in. :0) that's awesome.

now while you are assembling New Pile no. 1, ponder an ongoing carbon source ... what are you going to routinely use for 'browns?' i have oak trees around the yard so i dump leaves into a big wire enclosure in the fall. easy peasy. your mileage may vary: maybe you will buy straw bales on occasion or figure out where to scrounge sawdust or invest in a wood-chipper or just suck it up & learn to love liberating your neighbors' bags of leaves ... anyway, if you have the space, maintaining separate dedicated pile of browns is super-helpful. unlike greens, browns can sit quietly by themselves off to the side without starting to smell & be there when you need them.

when you have a stockpile of browns, then the puzzle just becomes about making layers as nitrogen-rich 'greens' become available ... kitchen waste topped with browns makes a layer, or grass clippings topped with browns, or weeds topped with browns, or horse poo topped with browns, or coffee grounds topped with browns ... and so on, according to your own schedule, wetting down each layer, until you have a lovely, bulging, cooking pile. it could take an hour or it could take a year to assemble ... whatever works for you.

so you know you need room for one cooking pile always. for this first one, you've got the ex-dog-kennel space. that's great. (btw, if you fear lingering dog-poo pathogens, please do make sure this compost pile is a hot one.) and you've started thinking about how you might turn piles to speed up decomposition ... maybe you will just stick a pry-bar into a pile once in a while to make air holes or maybe you will enjoy dumping the whole thing out periodically and forking it all back in to mix it. or maybe you won't. or maybe you will end up composting on a large scale and get a tractor! oh! i dream of owning a tractor ... but i digress ... :0)

the question becomes: when your active (ex-dog-kennel) pile is 'cooking,' where will you assemble the New Pile no. 2? by that time, will you have used up the previous owner's finished compost pile? can you plan on using that space for the next pile? or will you have the luxury of additional space for the next New Pile? because i'm composting within limited space, i know that Finished Pile must always get used quickly so next New Pile can start where Finished Pile was.

so after the horse-poo steam had dissipated, the joy of the sustainability puzzle remained ... the marvel of beneficial never-ending decomposition in finite space ... that's a reason for living right there.

i really enjoyed reading your post. you've totally got the wacko bug AND you're going to be just fine. best wishes on your new home!

Welcome Leslie, glad to hear of your addiction! And yes, you are as normal as the rest of us! LOL Not sure if that is reassuring or not! ;-)

I have wondered at times about the "life of earthworms" and perhaps yours are preparing to drop their egg sac. Did you notice a ring around their middle? Might explain their behavior. Someone else would have to research this as I'm bug-phobic and can't stand those pictures altho I do everything I can to help these guys be healthy and reproduce in my garden. I was recently shouting excitedly when I scraped some forest soil from beside a tree for a "brew" and there was a worm there. Very surprising as it's unamended forest clay soil and the weather hasn't warmed up much. So I'm very pleased these little guys are already active.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your compost!

If you're handing out coins, are they compost-able wooden nickels?

The earthworms are camera shy... couldn't find one to photograph. It's been really cold today though...

Speaking of pictures, how do I post them on here? (No steam yet.)

Testing to see if this works... sorry.

If it does work... this is the original compost pile: pile #1

[IMG]http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x303/ConvexLes/Compost%20piles/Photo_050309_002.jpg[/IMG]

And this is the new pile: Pile #2, the future 'hot pile.'

[IMG]http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x303/ConvexLes/Compost%20piles/Photo_050309_008.jpg[/IMG]

(Roofus, the Airedale shown in the photos... helped to establish pile size and scale. He weighs 65 lbs, and is 25 inches tall at the shoulder.)

If that doesn't work... this is a link (I think) to the rest of the compost pictures taken today. Leslie in CO ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: More compost pics

Went to Starbucks... they were out a grounds.
BUT... I met a lady that was talking about horses.
And, long story short... I'm going to get some horse poo.

Hopefully, that will help to heat up pile # 2?

Did you guys ever check out those pictures?

Leslie in CO

Leslie, nice Airedale! And the compost is pretty good also!

I'm sure horse manure will heat up the pile. I recently got one going hot with soyameal, alfalfa pellets, and UCG. Also had a lot of earthworms visiting in the outer "only warm" areas. Not sure which was the most effective of those 3 nitrogen sources but it sure heated in a hurry. Gotta get out right now and see how it's doing.

I must get my pics on my shutterfly but too busy gardening!

Sorry to keep bothering you all... but good grief. I acquired a whole pile of horse poo today. Added more straw. Watered down each layer, just like I'm supposed to. And still... no steam. I'm starting to think I'm doing something wrong. Feeling really impatient. How long can this take?

Is this like... 'a watched pile never boils'... or what.

As for Roofus, the Airedale... he's a professional working dog, and the little brain-iac that he is... I taught him to help me 'turn the pile' yesterday. It's hilarious. We are both getting addicted to compost. As a matter of fact, I have a whole house FULL of Airedales. I'm thinking about trying to compost their hair next time I strip their coats... it's water-proof. Like a million little water wicks that never go away. I wonder how long that would take to decompose?

And... Thank GOD for duct tape! Went to buy garden sulfur for the blueberries today... almost purchased a new pitchfork, on impulse. But the cheapest one was $40.00!!! No thanks, I'll pass. Came home and put the old one back together, using duct tape. Works great. So, if anyone breaks ever their pitchfork... FYI... Duct tape works wonders.

Lastly, do you know those big bright flood lights they use at construction sites? The kind that can be mounted on a tripod? They get kind of warm...Well... what if I ran an extension cord out to the pile, and used one of those lights to 'heat it up'...at least artificially... just for over night. Would that work, to give it a jump start or something??? I'm thinking... maybe it just needs a little boost? Anyone tried this?

Here are my newest questions:

1)Am I on the right track by adding new layers, alternating greens and browns, and wetting each layer down as I go?

2) Pile # 2 is getting big. Turning it over is going to be difficult. Is it worth it to start a third pile? In other words... is it easier to get a pile hot if it's really BIG? Or, can smaller piles get hot just as easily?

If you look closely at the photo's on that album... sitting there is a partial roll of wire farm fencing. Holes are approx. 1.5 x 3.5. Could I cut off chunks of that farm fencing, and zip-tie it into a circle... for compost containment? Or, are the holes too big?

(If I did that, I might have room for 4 piles... inside the former dog kennel.)

3)Lastly...does water with a high pH (7.8) 'impede' or 'smother" the biological activity in a so-called 'hot pile... in any way, shape of fashion? Should I be collecting rain water to moisten the piles, or... is it okay to use the super alkaline city water that comes from the hose?

Thanks... and if I'm doing anything else wrong, please don't be afraid to speak up. I think tomorrow will be day 6 for the new pile. If nothing else, I'm learning to really enjoy this. I find that I'm starting to look at the world differently... all for the sake of composting. (Can I compost this? Can I compost that? Where could I get free horse poop? etc. etc.) Meeting all kinds of cool people along the compost trail too. Can anyone relate to this? (So am I an addict, or what...)

Leslie in CO

Leslie, I have not read thru the entire post but noticed a roll of fence near your new pile. Knowing what I know now, I would use that fence to make a 'ring' to hold my compost.

You can see by now how piling on the ground results in a pyramid with less on top than on the bottom. Making a fence type compost bin would enable you to pile more on top while allowing plenty of air flow.

There are many posts on here that describe how to make them but basically you just want to multiply 3.14 time the diameter to find out how much fence you will need. So 3.14 x 4ft = 12+ft - make a circle and fill with your chosen materials. Or 9ft for a 3ft dia. circle.

The fence pictured looks to be about 2ft high. Use another ring (inside the first) when first is filled about half way, to make it taller.

You need at least 2x2ft for 2-3days before it will begin to heat up. I find that more greens will heat faster. Things like freshly cut grass or corn husk type material works best for me. Invest in a 3ft long Compost thermometer to make life easier.

Avoid throwing ANY weed seeds in until you master getting the pile hot enuff to kill the seeds. Else you will just spread more weeds in your finished compost.

HTH

Leslie..of COURSE you're NOT normal...that's why you're here! When was the last time NORMAL WAS FUN??? NEVER~welcome to the madness. I'm no expert but does it take more time than you've given it to make the coveted "steaming pile"? I'd like to know the answer to that from some more knowledgeable members here.

My observation on the earthworms...they're in the same "cosmic" zone that you were when lolling around in your pile. Isn't it magical? What positive madness, huh?

Ok... used the wire fencing to make a new home for pile #3. It's 4' high... diameter is only 3 feet. Is that big enough to make a hot pile?

Pile #2 is only 6 days old, and already too massive to turn.

So what should I do... start dumping contents of pile # 2 into pile #3? That's going to really mess up my 'layers'.... is that a big deal or wilkl it still work?

Oh... put lilac branches in the bottom, thinking that would help air get in there... will that help, or make it worse?

I added new photo's so you can see what I've done so far...

Here is a link that might be useful: updated photo album...

Total mixing is actually better than layers. In fact my best hottest piles have been when I mixed fresh grass clippings with leaves on a big tarp into a homogenous mixture, then load them into the bin.

If your two piles each have a good mix, and are at different stages of composting, let them be. If not, there may be reasons to mix them. But I'd give them a little time. Nature has its own schedule.

Re: your horse poo not heating up, is it fresh? If already aged/composted not much will happen. Be patient for goodness sake, it takes 24-48 hours for the heat to build up to steam level. :-]

Have fun.

If you've got more greens I would mix greens with the stuff from pile#2 while moving it to pile#3. That will get you a look at what is going on and just how hot pile#2 is getting inside. My guess is you won't see any steam unless we get some chilly wx. So just wave your bare hand near the opened pile.

Avoid making direct skin contact with all those working bacteria. Just NOT a good idea.

oh 4ft is a little high for me but you'll figure all that out.

OMG gumby---what's to happen to my right index finger? I did stick it into the pile today to see if it was warm. (I broke my $1 store pool thermometer) I'm typing with it...no cuts on my finger...no red streak up by arm. What's it gonna' do? Maybe do harm to the compost. Oh lordie!

Leslie,
How wet is your pile? I got the impression from one of your first posts that you are watering it a lot. It may be too much. If you can pick it up (and yes, I use my bare hands in my pile all the time; I just don't think that the bacteria that are interested in eating dead vegetation are going to be very interested in me) and wring a good bit of water out, it may be too wet. If it is too wet and there's a good bit of 'greens' in there, it will begin to stink after a few days. If it does, spread it out to dry or turn it more often to help it dry.

If it is not too wet, I am a bit surprised that you have not gotten things to heat up in #2 yet. It seems like you should have a good pile going (plenty of size and the correct ingredients if your greens are still fresh - meaning not already composted). When I hit things right in my pile it begins to heat up over night and within two or three days it is often over 140 F (again, that's when I have gotten enough greens in with the browns and it is not too wet or too dry).

But you should get some heating if you have a good bit of greens and browns (even if the ratio is not perfect) and if the wetness is anything close to correct. Your bins should be of adequate size (mine are 4 feet across and 3 feet tall and made of wire mesh as well. The rough material at the bottom of #3 should help your pile to breath. I would continue to keep my eyes open for some greens, continue as you are and trust that it will all be compost in time.

Steve

Give it a little time.
I'll bet you might see some steam on Saturday (have you seen the lovely new forecast for the weekend- about 50*?).

Check the garden dept at WalMart for a thermometer - intended for turkey fryer- I think it's 12" for about $5.00. You can get an actual compost thermometer at the nursery, but I wasn't ready to cough up over $20 for it. Try it, I think you'll like it.

Ok... I'm totally exhausted. Need to get up early, and it's late.

But... I'm worried the pile isn't going to get hot enough. I'm doing something wrong.

For one thing, the humidity is REALLY low up here. (As a rule) Don't quote me, but I think average humidity is 35% or less. Thin air. Maybe the crucial microbiology can't survive at this altitude?

I was disappointed to see the pile fairly dry today. Sheesh.

The horse poo was mostly fresh. But, it's drying out already.

Steam = moisture; right? So if it's too dry... there can't be any steam... right?

I need to put more thought into pile #3. (Or less thought?) So... More oxygen? More mixing?) More moisture? (Is the alkaline water a problem? Because tomorrow, I'm going to start dumping leftover coffee on it.)More nitrogen? More Greens?

A blow torch? (That aught to attract some attention)

A Tetnaus shot?...(keep hurting myself. Such a clutz)

Should I buy some 'compost starter?

(I while out shopping for the compost thermometer...ahhhm, I meant, turkey thermometer. :)

Our good friend Blutranes posted this link about Maye Bruce a few weeks ago. Very good read. I would think there would be some great herbalist/natureopathic shops in Colorado that would have some of these dried ingredients that you could use in the MB way.

Or, do a search for "Bug Juice" on this site...also supposed to speed up composting. Also, look up "Why I Love the Internet thread and read the Rodale link (in the first post) where he describes using lactic acid (you can drain the whey from yogurt to get it more quickly) in a diluted solution to speed up decomp in the compost pile. Blutranes did this, with good success, I believe.

Last year, with my smallish compost pile (literally), I would take the kitchen scraps out and stick them in the middle of a bunch of old leaves. Repeat every week...it wasn't long before I saw some steam inside the pile when I moved the top layer to bury more stuff and noticed the other stuff breaking down. I had no manure or anything else to use on that pile.

Patience, Cricket.

Here is a link that might be useful: Maye Bruce

If your pile is not getting hot, my guess is you don't have enuff greens. Wet the pile as you build it.

Compost starter is for people who have too much money. You do NOT need it. Spread some garden soil on your greens if it makes you feel better.

Turkey thermometers are cheaper, they also operate at a completely different temperature range. Using the right tools helps in the learning process, then you can take short cuts.

There was recently a question from another Colorado Compostiere wondering about adding moisture. The most difficult aspect of composting in an arid climate is keeping the ingredients moist enough. I have to regularly hose down my piles, or they dry to a crisp in a few days. So think damp sponge, and as gumby above notes, spray it down as you build it. After a week or so, check again, and it may need another bucket of water - don't let it dry out completely, because it can become hydrophobic, and all the water sluices through to the ground underneath.

Overslept, and running late here...but

I'm thinking the arid climate is at least part of the problem. Can I make some kind of 'moisture tent' to keep the pile from drying out? Not sure what I'm describing, but dreamed about it last night. (Worked good in my dream)

I could use heavy plastic... and rig it somehow so air could still get in/out... but evaporated moisture would rise, condense on the plastic, (or tarp, perhaps) and eventually rain back down on the center of the pile.

(I really do have compost on the brain lately; that, and blueberry bushes)

I'll look up bug juice... read the Maye Bruce info. And find a thermometer. About that, exactly what temp range are we talking here?

Here's the link for BJ

Here is a link that might be useful: Bug Juice

Ok... those links were both VERY GOOD READS. Thanks for pointing those out for me, because they really have me thinking now. I felt so inspired, that there is now a rather strange concoction brewing in my kitchen... and I believe it might help 'activate' my compost pile(s)... eventually.

I still haven't achieved steam yet, and I suspect it's the humidity. (or lack of; the pile is drying out too fast) So as an experiment... I partially covered pile #2 with an old tarp yesterday to see if that helps at all.

Today, I bought some hardware cloth... and built myself some 'trays' for sifting compost, potting soil, etc. I also picked up 6 truckloads of free mulch. I feel like a giant black-and-blue mark, with legs.

Leslie in CO

Ahhhhh, another BREWmaster in the making. Yep, I agree, they're both REALLY GOOD READS. Thanks again, Blutranes, for sharing those with us!

Just wait til you digest all the info on the bionutrient thread..aka "Why I love the internet". Then there's Blutranes lunar planting guide link.

To paraphrase The Carpenters..."you've only just begun"

So much fun, this place is!

Since Blutranes has been kind of quiet lately, I'm guessing he's trying to keep up with his super growing garden. Either that or his rose brew is acting as some sort of pheromone and he's having a hard time keeping his neighbor ladies off his property.