You wrote: "'soy-based'.. but is it, really"

Yes. Use it. Cardboard, too. But if you're truly wigged out, recycle it.

Most all newspapers have switched to soya based inks for economic reasons, they are much less expensive than the petroleum based inks once use. Most all printing on cardboard boxes is also with soya based inks for the same reason.

I've used newspaper in every garden since 1976 (since back when it wasn't soy-based) and I've never felt that comfortable with the reassurances about the ink from fellow gardeners. About a month ago, we were discussing it here and a few of us wrote to our local papers. I received answers from someone at both papers telling me that the ink is soy-based. I still don't feel that reassured, because I'm worried that they did a Google search about newspaper ink, found us talking about it on Garden web and reported back to me. :^)

And I don't put cardboard in my compost, because I don't trust the glues or the inks. I only use it on my paths.

That said, I love using newspaper too much to stop using it. I probably wouldn't garden if I didn't use newspaper, because I am no weeder.

The most convincing argument I have read was on a USDA site where someone wrote that back when the printers unions were powerful they demanded safe inks. Because all the union shops switched to safe inks it made economic sense for everyone to switch to safe inks.

This USDA publication acknowledged that they knew nothing about what in the stuff printed outside the country.

(Our local newspaper does not even know where it is printed. They write the stuff on a computer, send the files, it is printed and delivered by someone else.)

so i keep hearing 'soy-BASED'. that means there are *other* ingredients in there.. but no one knows what....? surely someone somewhere knows the answer. i'm determined to get to the bottom of it!

This question has been asked and debated so many times here that a search pulls up over 300 discussions on it. It ALWAYS boils down to 90% of the replies saying "yes, it is safe to use" and "yes, I have used it for umpteen years with no problems".

Yes, of course, there are other ingredients in it. What they may be are so minute as to be irrelevant unless you are for some reason composting nothing but tons of newspaper. Call your local paper and ask them for the list of ingredients in the ink they use.

But obviously you still have concerns about its safety. So in that case the best option for you is to NOT use it. That way you don't have to worry about what else may or may not be in it.

Dave

I decided to ask my local newspaper if they used soy based ink as I was thinking about composting the newspaper. Here is their reply:

Hello. Because this is annual question, I have provided the answer a few times in columns. I hope this helps:

A: The director of production said our paper uses some inks that are petroleum-based and some that are soy-based. The black ink is not 100 percent soy-based, although it does contain some soy component. The color inks are all 100 percent soy-based.

She warned, though, that the newsprint itself would be made with some chemicals, especially the recycled portion of the fibers that need to be bleached to be reused. Finally, the water that is used as part of the offset process would contain some chemicals, such as surfactants, to make it more effective in repelling the oil-based ink.

Most people who use newsprint in gardening have found it to be effective in blocking weeds, but as far as for compost (that is, to feed and nourish), I would not think there is anything of value in the newsprint or the ink.

PJ

"I have used it for umpteen years with no problems."

"You know, until I got the brain tumor, that is."

Dave, I'm glad you have so much faith in your fellow laymen. You may be right, but unless I see your credentials, you'll forgive me if I question your certitude.

Although I do not disagree with the statements, it is not me making those statements, annpat. Please note the quotation marks in my post above. Quoted reference is to the numerous times those same comments have been made in replies to the hundreds of times this issue has been questioned/posted/discussed/debated/rehashed/beaten to death/etc. before. Thousands of us compost newspapers and have done so for years. Only those who insist on eating their compost rather than incorporating it into their garden run the risk of brain tumors.

THAT is my "certitude". And one need only do a search...as is requested by the forum guidelines... to substantiate that claim. ;)

As to "faith in your fellow laymen" (note quotes again) - if only credentialed sources are to be believed, then a lay gardening forum such as this is not the place to ask the question. Our lay opinions here are appreciated by and good enough for most. For those who seek only credentialed answers, seek another source.

Dave

I've used newspaper for vermicomposting with no noted side effects to me or the red worms as far as I can tell. :-)

I've also used newspapers and cardboard in my lasagna gardening and no problems.

It seems to boil down to faith and believe what you want to believe is safe to use. Matter of personal choice.

Don't believe it's safe? Don't use it. Simple.

well, for me it's not a matter of what i may or may not 'believe'... it's a matter of wanting to know the absolute FACTS (not hearsay) about what exactly is in the ink/paper (besides soy-based something or other). and we have a right to know.

reversemidas, I smoked 3-4 packs of cigarettes for 24 years with no noted side effects.

Dave, you honestly think that? That if we want reliable answers, we should seek them elsewhere? I think people should let people know that they don't know what they're talking about when they don't. Especially when it pertains to safety and health concerns.

Dave, you honestly think that? That if we want reliable answers, we should seek them elsewhere?

First, that is NOT what I said. Those are your words, not mine.

You stated you were only interested in opinions with credentials and I said you won't find them here. This is an amaturer gardening/composting forum with participants with a wide range of experience and knowledge. Membership does not require that we first submit a curriculum vitae and copies of all diplomas/degrees earned before being allowed to post. It also assumes some common sense on the part of the reader and that the reader knows they can choose to accept or reject any opinion offered.

But now instead of "credentialed" opinions you claim they need only be "reliable" opinions. That's a big downgrade of your expectations. All opinions posted here are as "reliable" as any others. Hundreds of others have already posted that composting newspaper is no problem. That knowledge is apparently sufficient for all but the most compulsive worry-warts among us.

rembetika wants "the absolute FACTS (not hearsay)" so why post here? Where is there any claim here of absolute truths? Has he/she even bothered to read through all the previous discussions? What makes him/her think this is a source of "absolute FACTS" when we have no way of even knowing all the variables involved: which specific newspaper, which specific ink do they use, what are the ingredients of the ink they use, who is their supplier, how much newspaper used, mixed with how much of other ingredients, used for what purpose, composting experience, hot or cold composting, etc.

Different papers use different inks so if all the opinions already offered aren't enough then ask the newspaper in question, as I suggested above, if he/she wants to know what is in their ink.

Or, if convinced, as you are, that there is some sort of safety or health issue involved - an opinion shared by very few when proper composting techniques are used - then simply don't use it. It isn't as if you are required to compost newspaper after all, so don't. It really is THAT simple.

Dave

I would think that there is lots of things one could take an exception to using in the garden.

Leaves have hung on the tree all summer. For alot of places, air pollution is higher in the summertime. The pollution particulates stick to the leaves. The leaves fall at the end of summer. You compost the leaves and you now have added whatever gunk was on the leaves to your garden soil.

You salvage grass clippings, goodness knows what your neightbor sprayed on his lawn that week.

Say you use hay or straw, do you know what the farmer sprayed on his crops?

And the list goes on. For every item one can list, an arguement can be made why that item is not good to use.

Heck even your soil sitting outside is picking up pollutants just by sitting there!

There comes a point of reasonability. I believe that as many different types of things you can get into your soil the better and not relying on one item in particular is a good thing.

Dave, the person doing the misquoting is you. I never said that I wanted only credentialed "opinions". I said that you make some certain claims that newspaper is safe to use, saying that you're backed by 90% of the laymen on the forum who have discussed it. I've seen all the threads on newspaper use in the garden, myself, and I've never seen anyone with any actual background in science or newspaper production respond. It's always things like, "Well I've used it for years and nothing's happened to me." My cousin still has a vast supply of the last home pesticide to be banned in the U.S. He's used it for years and nothing's happened to him, his wife, or the child they let crawl around in the powder on their lawn.

There's a lot of debate on this forum and people do attempt to give responsible answers. People often cite external, scientific sources to back themselves up.

Rem made it very clear that she hoped to get a satisfactory, authoritative, reassurance. And none other.

Rem, listen to me, no one here knows the answer to your question. They never have. I don't use newspaper because I "believe" that it's safe (although for all I know, it could be). I've decided to take a chance because I love the stuff, but I'm not arrogant enough to assure you that it's safe.

Rem made it very clear that she hoped to get a satisfactory, authoritative, reassurance. And none other.

The chances of that happening on a user to user board is not good.

However, this is actually an not so difficult one to answer. Call your newspaper and ask them what brand of ink they use.

Call the manufacturer of that ink and request the MSDS (material Safety Data Sheets) for the ink. By law, they have to have them.

You will then know everything you ever wanted to know about the ink.

All it takes is some time and a few phone calls. If something is bothering a person so much, its worth it for the piece of mind.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18203687?dopt=AbstractPlus (National institute of health report) on newspaper and inks.

I think that they are fine for paths and weed control, or compost for non edibles. But I would not use them for my vegitable garden. I do not trust the government to protect us (cept from terrorizm) nor do I trust the private sector to be honest with us about what thier product may or may not contain.

Ask your local newspaper manufacturer to provide you with a comprehensive or full list of ingredients. Bet you they wont.

Here is a link that might be useful: Austrailian ink

Soy Ink (Wikipedia)

Yes, I know Wikipedia isn't (or shouldn't be) considered authoritative. So here are a few more links that may put your mind to rest:

Myths About Using Newspaper Bedding for Livestock See myth's 4 and 7;
Basic Information : Composting : Wastes : US EPA The EPA gives no warnings about composting newspaper, simply stating that it should be shredded.

On the flip-side:
Why I Avoid Soy: If you are allergic to soy, you'll definitely want to avoid it (I have no idea how long allergens would last in a compost pile, but I wouldn't take a chance);
Is the S-R safe to use in a compost bin? One newspaper recommends not composting their paper.

Finally, Newspaper In Compost: One poster to a DirtDoctor.com forum brings up the point that you should be able to get an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) from the newspaper, which may or may not ease your mind.

(Note: I have no idea if DirtDoctor.com is worth the electrons used to display it)

I tried for years to compost newspaper, but here, out where the cowboys still sing to the coyotes and visa versa: the clear tones of Gene Autrey wannabes echoing off the sides of the semi's barreling through the starry desert night, newspaper won't compost because it dries out too quick (8% humidity isn't uncommon) unless you first turn it into paper maché, which is a lot of trouble. So I throw out a really thick layer as a mulch, and cover it with grass clippings, and over the course of a couple of years, either the worms discover it or the wind blows it to Kansas.

Why I Avoid Soy: If you are allergic to soy, you'll definitely want to avoid it (I have no idea how long allergens would last in a compost pile, but I wouldn't take a chance);

I am allergic to soy. Milk too.

I have no problems with newspaper. Now I suppose if I ate my compost I might have a problem, but I doubt it would be from the soy in the ink.

Also, the link you provided to the newspaper that says they dont recommend composting, has a follow up where it states the EPA thinks it a good thing.

I guess the bottom line is, if you are not comfortable with composting newspaper, do not believe any data anyone can supply you, etc.. don't use newspaper. Pretty simple.

I found a few more interesting sites regarding newspaper that include the composting council, cornell university, mother earth news and organic gardening...

http://mailman.cloudnet.com/pipermail/compost/2002-March/009256.html

Toxic inks were mostly ceased for two reasons. 1) worker protection in printing plants. and 2) uniformity of color in multi-newspaper advertisements. Not specifically for environmental protection. But having that effect.

All Pb, Cd, and Cr inks were stopped. Color newspaper pages are as safe for use as mulch or compost and the black and white pages. And those are low in Pb with modern printing methods compared to older molten metal systems which included a lot of Pb in the printing surface but not ink excepting contamination of the ink by the easily molten metal.

I heard, but have no evidence, that some of the blue ink used in printing cardboard contains Cu even today.

But the newspaper ink issue has been settled by both contacting the National Association of newspapers and their printing subgroup, and by analysis of several colored newspaper pages.

"Fine Printing" does not necessarily have the same self-imposed limits. I heard that some magazine and wrapping paper is still colored with metal inks.

So the answer to the question asked is "metals in newspaper are not increased by the printing process and remain safe for unlimited use as mulch or in producing compost." C:N limits remain just a problematic as ever when one incorporates much newspaper into soils.

Essentially the same answer as BioCycle and Organic Gardening printed years ago. These questions come up every gardening season.

Hope that helps,

Rufus Chaney

http://www.css.cornell.edu/compost/faq.html

Cornell University states newspaper is safe

http://www.organicgardening.com/feature/0,7518,s1-2-21-829,00.html

States black and white newspaper is safe

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/2007-05-01/Use-Newspaper-for-Mulch.aspx

Mother Earth News also recommends using newspaper.

"I guess the bottom line is, if you are not comfortable with composting newspaper, do not believe any data anyone can supply you, etc.. don't use newspaper. Pretty simple."

Actually, jmsimpson, when a person asks for the straight and skinny and you respond that faith should be enough, you're not being all that helpful.

Forget it, rem, the consensus here is, "You should be content to dwell in ignorance. 'Use newspaper or if you're going to be fussy (about heavy metals), don't.' After all, no one's making you use newspaper." We can't be bothered with anyone who might be interested in the facts, Jack."

I'm with you. I'd like to hear someone, who knows what they're talking about, give newspaper the green light.
It's not that helpful, is it, to be told that we don't have to use newspaper if we're scared.....

You wouldn't be satisfied annpat if God himself told you it was safe to use newspapers in compost so lay off the rest of us. And yes, we are all well aware of your frequent attempts to create controversy where none exists and to undermine the value of anything the rest of us might try to say here. Get your kicks while you can.

the consensus here is, "You should be content to dwell in ignorance. 'Use newspaper or if you're going to be fussy (about heavy metals), don't.' After all, no one's making you use newspaper." We can't be bothered with anyone who might be interested in the facts, Jack."

All these derogatory comments above are out of your mouth - no one else's. If Cornell University, Iowa State University, UC Davis, Mother Earth News, the EPA, UBC Botanical Garden and Center for Research, Washington State Toxics Coalition, and Organic Gardening, all of whom approve its use, don't qualify as "someone who knows what they are talking about" then no one can or ever will qualify.

So now we can add this one to the list of 307 previous discussions on whether or not it is safe to use newspapers in compost and the sane and sensible among us can get back to something rational and relevant.

Dave

Get it rem? Your question is irrational and irrelevant---oh and repetitive.

And if you actually read the first article by Cornell, you'll note that they say that most newspaper ink is safe. The other sources cited don't even go that far.

And digdirt, you're getting kind of nasty, aren't you? Please reread this thread. I'm trying to figure out what made you feel so threatened.

Actually, jmsimpson, when a person asks for the straight and skinny and you respond that faith should be enough, you're not being all that helpful.

I never said faith was enough. I said to do some research if you had concerns or if unwilling to do that, dont use it. Please read what I wrote.

Seriously. If someone will not take the opinion of the many sources out there saying its safe to use with some exceptions, then this is what they should do...

Take some of their local newspapers to a laboratory and pay to get an anaylsis done. Then you will know for absolute fact whether or not that YOUR local paper is safe to use in a compost heap.

If unwilling to spend the money to do that, simple, dont use newspaper as compost.

Why is that a problem?

And digdirt, you're getting kind of nasty, aren't you? Please reread this thread. I'm trying to figure out what made you feel so threatened.

Threatened? Nasty? No, not at all. Not surprisingly, you've missed my point completely. I'm having a really great time with all your predictable attempts to stir up controversy yet again. Sorry, guess I didn't included enough smiley faces to make that clear. :)

Honestly annpat, if everyone else said the sky was blue you'd claim it was green. Then you'd selectively "interpret" their words for everyone to make it appear they'd said green all along while only you recognized it as being blue.

Your "Mary, Mary, quite contrary..." act is a riot sometimes and the contrite bit is a nice touch too. But *sigh* it all does wear thin rather quickly so I'll be moving on and let someone else play with you for awhile. Have fun with your games. ;)

Dave

wow!! quite a hot topic here. and i was merely looking for answers to what i thought was a simple question.

interesting how, if this topic comes up again and again, it seems to get no clearer...?
annpat, i hear you loud and clear. my intent is not to use the paper because 'everyone does it', or because i 'believe it won't hurt me'. the thing is, i have been shredding it for years because it makes great dry material. but just because it 'seems' safe is no longer good enough for me.

digirt, i WAS doing research on this subject.. by starting here.

btw... i don't think looking for answers of this kind makes someone a 'compulsive worry-wart'. i don't know if that was directed towards me or not, but it was not appreciated. again, we have a right to know. and excuse me, if i haven't seen the 500 other threads on here about the subject. sometimes people don't have the time or energy to look all the archives up, or they are looking for the latest info on the subject, etc.

anyway... thanks everyone for the info, links and suggestions. i will call the local paper and do some further research elsewhere.

"... * Posted by jmsimpson9 ...
Mon, May 12, 08 at 20:22
.... cornell university ....

Toxic inks were mostly ceased for two reasons. 1) worker protection in printing plants. ... "

1. worker protection in printing plants.

This is what the USDA said about 7-10 years ago.

However it has been pointed out repeatedly here. If you have concerns don't ask, simply don't use the stuff!