I love my François Dubreuil and I've never seen any disease in him. Scent is outstanding too. Not sure if you can get it, but Alister Clark's restless is a wonderful rose too.

'Barcelona' (aka Francis Dubreuil) is really good. Not quite an antique, but close enough.

How about a very old (1925) Cl HT? Crimson Glory does not get any rust at all here, unlike my other old HTs. Gets a tiny bit of BS, but hardly noticeable. Very fragrant. Ages towards the blue end of the spectrum.

Here is a pic of mine:

Another vote for Francis, but Jackie's vintage hybrid tea is lovely! As Hoov noted, Francis is probably vintage hybrid tea Barcelona anyway. Martha Gonzales, although another China, is super healthy. As you mentioned, I also don't know of any truly antique non China red roses (as opposed to red pink ones) for your climate. Antique Rose Emporium sells what may be an uncommon red China, one that looks like Martha G on steroids--Old Gay Hill. Given how quickly time flies, I've begun counting old, vintage hybrid teas and floribundas as "antiques." In 11 more years, Jackie's rose will be 100 years old! Carol

Many red roses tend to mildew. I am in coastal Ventura County. 'Barcelona' (also sold as "Francis Dubreuil") did mildew here. If I desperately wanted to grow it, I would probably get Burling Leong to bud one for me.

I really do recommend 'Ragged Robin,' and 'Louis Philppe' -- both excellent here.

Also 'Prospero' (though it's not "old", and it is a purple-red) and 'Lady Ann Kidwell,' which is more cerise, I suppose.

I agree completely with Barcelona/FD. A fantastic rose!
Also, Charleston Graveyard, a found rose, is a very healthy pretty rose.
I have Field of the Woods which has done well but there is a threat of mildew (young plant).
If you are not dead set on an antique (although that is what you requested) Ascot is a pretty, healthy vigorous rose that can be fanned as a climber. This Ascot was planted grafted bare root last spring.
Susan

My Lady Ann Kidwell, a wonderful rose-if you're in SoCal and like unusual petals you need her, is more a deep magenta or hot pink.

My newly planted band of Rhode Island Red or Fields of the Wood, is a wonderful bright currant red and looks like it will be vigorous, but it is just a new band.

Archduke Charles was a rust magnet in my garden. I was sold a plant as Niles Cochet that clearly wasn't (this one was dark red with black highlights and heavy damask scent). Considering the garden it came from, the most likely candidate was Francis Dubreuil/Barcelona. But this plant was the only one I've ever had that got rust, mildew, and blackspot simultaneously. Ick. I gave both of these roses away. Teas and chinas are disasters here--never had one do very well.

On the other hand rugosas are very easy for me to grow, as are once-blooming European roses, hybrid perpetuals, portlands, bourbons, and species. I garden much differently though than many southern Californian rose gardeners. I have a low water garden (filled with many native California plants), fertilize sparingly if at all (diluted fish emulsion mostly), and rarely mulch. I allow the roses to go dormant by not fertilizing after the middle of summer and watering very little in the fall and into winter. The classes of roses I grow thrive under this treatment, while other classes can't handle it at all.

I grow 2 older, but not antique, red hybrid teas that like the hot dry conditions here, Cl. Crimson Glory and Oklahoma. My best performing red hybrid perpetuals are Comtesse O'Gorman and Directeur Alphand. Henry Nevard has done well for me as well.

Melissa

I love 'Souvenir de Claudius Denoyal' since you asked for an antique rose, and not an O.G.R.
It is one of the healthiest roses in my no- spray garden. I've never seen rust on it, and it rarely shows blackspot or p.m.. either.

My neighbor Luanne grows 'Souvenir de Dr. Jamain' in her no spray garden, it has a really nice fragrance too. I ordered it years ago but was sent 'Iceberg' by mistake.

Lux

Someone once told me that it is difficult to breed for red color, scent, and mildew resistance all at the same time, some genetic linkage being the problem. Apparently you can get any two but it is challenging to get all three. I don't know why, and merely pass along hearsay.

Having said that, serious rust is pretty much a problem everywhere here on the west coast of the United States. They don't see very much of it in the rest of the country. So, you could move east and worry about rampant blackspot instead!
;-)

In my garden I have not seen much rust if any on Cl Crimson Glory or Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil. Oklahoma mostly just gets it in the fall. Bardou Job is pretty good; no scent though. Prospero was pretty but in my experience feeble. Chevy Chase is vigorous and healthy, but no scent and a once bloomer.

Then there is Jacob's Ladder. Jacob's Ladder is extremely healthy, though very modern in appearance, also no scent, and I don't know if it is commercially available anywhere. I will tell you that when it is in full bloom almost all visitors make a beeline for that plant and bypass roses I consider very entrancing. People seem to just love it. It is possible that I own the last plant, even though it is not very old. I've never seen if elsewhere.

I wish you good luck with your quest.

Folly

Folly -- It took us a while to figure out how to grow 'Prospero.'

FIRST -- It's really weenie on its own roots.

SECOND -- More vigorous, budded -- but treat it as you would a China. Deadhead GENTLY, and avoid all pruning but for removal of dead canes.
Treated that way, it will grow to a bushy 4 ft. or slightly less, and bloom like mad.

Thanks everyone! Looks like I have some roses to check out. I am not opposed to a Hybrid Tea or Hybrid Musk as regards classes despite not being true OGRs. I also don't mind less scent if it means more health.

I would love to try a HP and may in the future, but Francis Dubreuil seems like a pretty popular pick. I'm going to make an order from Burling in the Fall and it's worth thinking about adding on a budded FD for 2015/2016 delivery.

Jay

Folly, that is interesting what you say about Bardou Job having no scent. HMF says it is strongly scented, and one of the references mentions that it inherited its "peculiar perfume" from its parent, Gloire des Rosomanes. I have found that reference rather intriguing for some time, so fairly recently went on a scavenger hunt of sorts thru old rose books/sites and found one where the odd scent was described as something like crushed strawberry leaves (I'll have to go back to check, but I think that's close to what was written). Of course I had to go out in my garden and pick strawberry leaves, and sure enough the smell was quite distinctive and pungent. Is it possible the rose you have isn't Bardou Job?

Melissa

Isn't 'Bardou Job' in the U.S. something of a "Recovered Old Rose"??

If that is the case, who knows whether what we have now is really what they had then?

Arbutus, I miss all those red China roses and red-pink teas. Isn't that funny? I can grow hybrid perpetuals and such, and I do. However, I wish I could grow a really magnificent specimen of Cramoisi or Louis P, like the ones I admired as a kid. Chinas grow okay here but they're not nearly as vigorous, lush, and healthy as they are in your climate. I have family in TX and try to satisfy myself with regular China rose visitations. Carol

We always want what we can't have, Carol! I don't dislike the red chinas, I just don't like them enough to feel the need to allocate space to them. I also enjoy the pink/red teas such as M. Tillier, General Gallieni, Archiduc Charles, General Schablikine and the like. GG is here doing well and General Schablikine will probably join it. That said, the only problem free solid red rose I have is Home Run, which is great at being a landscape shrub, but not at being a sumptuous red rose.

I could see myself with one of Cramoisi Superieur, Louis Phillipe, or Ragged Robin just because they would be so clean here in the long run. Nevertheless, I would be one happy camper if I could grow a clean, regularly blooming specimen of Souvenir du Docteur Jamain or Baron Girod de l'Ain.

Jay

Jay, I'm in the process of rearranging my garden, so my transplanted roses are complaining, but after my blooms buck up and after you choose your red(s), we should swap photos for vicarious enjoyment of those we each covet. :-) Carol

Ah, I combined Archiduc Joseph and Archduke Charles, but I like that idea Carol! It's always great to see what others are growing in different climates.

Jay

" . . . I would be one happy camper if I could grow a clean, regularly blooming specimen of Souvenir du Docteur Jamain or Baron Girod de l'Ain. "

" . . . 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wished."

"The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"--Hamlet has nothing on antique rose lovers.

Melissa, it is entirely possible that Bardou Job is indeed scented, just not with a scent that my nose reads. I get nothing in the way of fragrance from it.

Jeri, it was my understanding that it was found in California as "Alcatraz Red Climber" but was afterwards identified as Bardou Job. I was not aware that there was any question about its identity, but perhaps I am missing something. Patricia Cavallo of Amis des Roses Nabonnand asked me for a photo of mine, which I sent to her a while ago via FB. I never heard back from her, so I don't know what she thought of it.

Rosefolly

Jumping in a bit late to the red rose party. You might check out the Hybrid Musk Nur Mahal. No disease here in coastal CA near San Francisco with part shade. And pretty thornless. Moderate scent. I love this rose.

Diane

I'm afraid I've never been a big Shakespeare reader, but despite seeing reason, I struggle to accept that BGdL or SdDJ would probably end up wheezing "To die, to sleep," in agony here.

Jay

"Jeri, it was my understanding that it was found in California as "Alcatraz Red Climber" but was afterwards identified as Bardou Job. I was not aware that there was any question about its identity, but perhaps I am missing something. "

*** *** If a rose is FOUND, we can guess, or guess with some certainty, what it is.

We can't be CERTAIN, unless we can compare it to another one, or unless DNA testing can guarantee it.

That's why we have found roses, once thought to be "Historic Rose A," which were later thought to be, instead, "Historic Rose B."

And so, we have scholarly arguments about identities.
Or we just say -- "OK. That name's as good as any." (And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?)

I'm not arguing that a rose one of is is growing is, or is not, 'Bardou Job.' I'm just saying that, with any Found rose, there is room for uncertainty.

"May be . . . " "Thought to be . . . " "Believed to be . . . " "Is probably . . . " "Appears to be . . . "

If you're not dead set on an antique, 'Oklahoma' is the most fabulous dark red rose I've ever seen, with color that is entirely different from today's roses (which seem flat and chalky to me). The fragrance, although a bit too much for me, is wonderful, too. I think it must be tough, too - I had it briefly (long story), and it was so vigorous it nearly leapt out of the box when it arrived!

Jay -- 'Baron Girod de l'Ain didn't die in agony here.

I put it out of its misery for the crime of mildewing beyond belief, despite being sprayed regularly with a rotating arsenal of chemicals.

Souv. du Docteur Jamain was not a full-time mildewer, and was incredibly fragrant. (We won the "most fragrant" award with it at a District Convention.)

It was, however, a weak grower from the start. We didn't realize, until we removed it that it had come to us with a crippling infestation of root gall. Without that handicap, it might have fared better.

But, by that time, we had learned that we were always going to be more likely to succeed with Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes than with any of the Hybrid Perpetuals.