By the way, I also recently picked up a small bag each of FoxFarms and Dr. Earth Potting soil (bat guano and worm poop based mixes) from my local hydro shop. Was planning on doing a head to head with the miracle grow in a few sets of similar plants. Only problem is this stuff is more costly than the miracle gro.

In all fairness, I did pick up some coco coir bricks also....so I was thinking of maybe adding some of this to the potting soils to bulk up the volume of the soil, as well as to hopefully avoid compacting. I noticed that after watering my 3 or 5 gallon containers, I often lose 10-20% of the volume to compacting, and I'm guessing that's not good for the roots to have such a compact soil.

Thanks again.

I think the miracle grow is the best I can buy out of all the choices, but it is not good enough. I have said that this is good mix to buy for potting soil.

It is true that it would be better to make the mix, but the ingredients are much harder to get then even what you posted. If only it was just a few things I could pick up locally, but I found out you need Turface MVP and crushed granite. I tried to substitute chicken grit for feeding chickens but that turned out to be filled with lime, so I could not use that. I would have drive out to all kinds of far away places to get that stuff whole sale and they only sell 100 pound bags. Sometimes you have to bag it yourself.

But miracle grow is kind of inferior, although the best I can get all in one bag. It will not drain well enough. But, the hydroponic stuff could be a good idea. I have to try that out. I can easily get to a hydroponics store.

If I put things in pots they do so badly that soon I put them in the ground before they die. This is all because no "company brand" will put right mix in a bag and sell it.

Miracle grow is only peat moss, a wetting agent and some perlite, it may have "forest products", but I don't see any. Supersoil used to be the best, but it got sold and now it is the worst mix I can buy. If I use it the plants seem to die instantly.

What about kellogs?

If I use miracle grow I at least use the organic one that they sell at big lots. I used to use the "water proof" MG in the blue bag but I found the only difference is is that they add perlite. So I bought a big bag of perlite and add that to the organic bag.

If you look on the citrus section their is a citrus mix called "gritty mix". I dont know how good it is for veggies but it works wonders on citrus.

Also alot of the MG I used to buy had gnat eggs in it. Sometimes I get a good bag with no gnat sometimes I get mucho gnats.

For the peppers, I would highly recommend using either the miracle grow cactus or orchid blend.

The regular vegetable mix (miracle grow) should be fine for the rest (I haven't grown lettuce so I'm not 100% sure on that)

I won't like the cactus mixes. I looked at the kellogs and it has sand. Like I really need more sand in my garden. It is going to get recycled into my garden later on. What you want is the crushed granite and the Truface for drainage. Sand only creates compaction in containers. If you look at what is in the Al's gritty mix that is what you need to have outstanding drainage. I copied the post about the gritty mix, it was 152 pages as a docx file, but if you read it, it will explain the logical of why the mix is better then something like miracle grow or even kellogs. Always check the ingredients on any bag of soil. Often people pay a lot of money to get a name brand that is in fact made of cheaper inferior ingredients.

Gritty mix

1 part turface, 1 part perlite, 1 part shpagnum, 1 part crushed gravel or something like that? Im probably off a bit but I know it goes something like that.

That mix is probably what I will be using for my Mandarin when I transplant it after I harvest the fruit in the next couple months.

Potting "soils" are all about the same no matter the price. Potting "soils" are peat moss, coir, finely ground bark, or a combination of these with either perlite or vermiculite added to aid drainage. Some of the more expensive potting "soils" will have fertilizers added, something not needed for seed starting, although it might be good for when transplanting growing plants.
I have had very good results with 20 pound bags of potting "soil" that cost $1.98, just as good as those that cost $6.98.

I think the hydro shop is an excellent choice. The stuff is probably going to be expensive, but that's the price you pay for having them do the labor for you.

If I'm not mistaken, somebody makes & sells bags of Mel's Mix (fella on youtube was at home improvement store sorting through all the options there).

FWIW, I've had good luck with Miracle Gro potting soil (lots of folks like to dog the big guys, but that's not always fair).

Mel's mix is not Al's mix. Mel's mix only contains
1/3 Blended Composts, 1/3 Peat Moss, 1/3 Coarse Vermiculite,
That I could make myself.

I want someone to sell me Al's mix, so I don't have load 100 pounds of crushed not (decomposed granite) and buy Tur face, which I think is baked clay online.

I would spend money gladly if someone would sell me that. Or maybe I could just buy the granite and the Turface since the other things in it I could get. But what about the fir bark? I was hoping I could substitute Kellogg amend for fir bark.

I would never buy compost from anyone else, since I can make it myself better then they can.

I don't need soil for my planter boxes. I would want it for a closed container and you should not put compost in containers. I had to update because I forgot to mention that.
I have tried mixes of native soil and compost in containers and it all ended in disaster. I had to bail out the plants and put them in the ground before they all died.

Potting "soils" are all about the same no matter the price

That is SOOOOO not the case!! FWIW, MiracleGro in any of its formulations would be the last potting soil I'd opt for simply because the particles are too fine, too uniform and too easy to collapse. And a collapsed potting soil spells disaster by providing poor drainage and insufficient aeration. We do a test planting each year at my nursery of the various potting soils we offer - same plants, same watering regime, same light, same fertilization. MG comes in at the bottom of the ratings every time - the poor performance of the plants testament to the gooey, dense mess the poor things are trying to grow in.

To the OP - either the Dr. Earth or the Fox Farms would be better choices as they contain a good proportion of bark - the barkier the soil (the more texture), the better. These are not worm poop or guano based soil mixes....unless you are mistaking a fertilizer for a potting soil. Both will have some organic nutrients included (perhaps the worm poop or guano) but that just offsets the need to add some other sort of fertilizer to your container planting. And all container plantings will need added ferts. They are a closed system, which is why a correct potting medium, correct fertilizing and attention to watering is so critical.

Dr. Earth house plant mix has the fir bark, so I would only need to get the granite and tur face, but it would seem like one could find cheaper fir bark? It may be worth getting if one has a special plant they really love. I don't need a lot of volume. I know where they sell Dr. Earth, but I always balked at paying so much for potting soil.

I've been using Fafard products for many years, both professionally and now. Fafard makes many different kinds of potting mix and what I strongly recommend can be found in their Professional Line of Heavy Weight mixes. All of the Heavy Weights are 'barky', as gardengal describes.

You may have to have your locally owned garden center special order this for you, but it will be well worth your while to go to the effort to find someone who will do so. Don't settle for their retail blends, which aren't much different than MiracleGro, as far as I can tell.

Tn Grower, I'm not 'dogging on the big guys' when I say that about the MG. I honestly don't like their potting soils....not at all. They are too mucky, peaty, and fine textured.

The attached link will take anyone interested to the Fafard web site, where you can click on and read the different ingredients of their professional line of potting mediums.

Here is a link that might be useful: Let's look at the Fafard products

Sorry to post so many times, but I just discovered the granite and the turface you can get in small amounts on ebay. They was a thread on the container forum about how I had to go around to wholesalers far away and beg them to sell me this stuff. I wonder why no one thought about ebay? It is so simple. Anyone one can make the mix now, it's only bark, tru face and granite.

Tropical/
Go to home depot and get a bag of shredded pine bark, Its like $4 a bag. They also sell perlite by the bag.

For turface and gravel, any Bonzai tree website should sell them by the bag. OSH has them in small quantities as well.

For a container mix, I like to think of it like this - imagine a pitcher full of popped popcorn. See all of the air space between the popped kernels? This gives lots of room for air and roots to grow and breathe. Now imagine that you took the same pitcher and added something very fine such as peat moss, dirt, soil etc. so that the pitcher was full of the new mix. The new mix will still occupy one full pitcher, but instead will stay soggy for much longer and will have less room and air for the roots to grow and breathe.

This is why Al's 5:1:1 mix (5 parts fir bark : 1 part perlite : 1 part peat moss) and other nursery mixes work so much better than peat moss alone or peat-based mixes, 'potting soil,' 'potting mix,' etc.

If you have compost that you can successfully grow directly in, or can successfully use compost tea as a fertilizer then great, but in my experience the bark-based container mix far surpasses anything that amounts to a bag of peat moss and vermiculite/perlite - plants especially seedlings are comparatively stagnant in peat moss.

I agree.

I have grown hydroponically as well. I have realized that "soil", in pots and our yard, is mostly to hold the plant in place and to offer some nutrients/water retention. With our help, we can grow without soil and a plant could be suspended in mid air and if the roots are misted regularly with proper nutrients and oxygen most trees/plants would do just fine without soil.

I created a home made aeroponics system that basically uses net pots with gro rocks to hold the plants above misters that fed from a 10 gallon reservoir. I have never seen such beautiful plants. Also I used straight ten gallon buckets with net pots and gro rocks with an aquarium air bubbler with an air stone in the bottom for oxygenation. The plants grew huge! All I had to do was add nutrients and adjust the Ph and top off with fresh water from time to time!

I did not know about that mix, I was thinking about making the gritty mix, for plants that need good drainage. But that mix would be easy to make with readily available ingredients. Fir bark is really expensive. 1 cubic foot is 10 dollars at OSH and more online.

Since that mix has a lot of fir bark in it, unless I could find a cheaper supply of fir bark, that mix would cost a lot. Commercial nurseries use cheap stuff and throw out the plants that die. I have never brought a plant in which I felt the potting soil was up to par.

Check out this thread
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/amaryllishippeastrum/msg1117540814762.html

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff101/TheOriginalHag/2010%20Photos/anov2010.jpg

Couldnt you just buy a bag of this to use as pine or fir bark?? Basically the same stuff.

$4 a bag. I use it all the time to mix with MG potting soil and perlite.

http://www.scotts.com/smg/catalog/productTemplate.jsp?proId=prod70492&itemId=cat60014&tabs=general

http://www.scotts.com/smg/products/earthgro/image/Earthgro-All-Natural-Mulch-std.jpg

I've been using the bag labeled "Decorative Groundcover Bark" - the same as Raybo shows in his EarthTainer guide - I think it's $4 or $5 for a 2 cubic foot bag. I don't think it says fir anywhere on the bag, but it seems to be about the right size and works well. It's best to screen the dust out of it before use. Also, the recommendation is 1 tablespoon of dolomitic lime (~$10 for a 50 pound bag) mixed with each gallon of 5:1:1 mix, or ~2/3 cup per 10 gallons of 5:1:1. You will find this at the local garden stores as I'm also in the bay area.

EarthTainer III Guide - page 18

Here is a link that might be useful: Fir

To Blaze of glory: I use redwood micro bark as a mulch, now that I dumped my lawn. Redwood microbark is cheap when I buy a big amount. Kelloggs amend looks like tiny bark pieces. I emailed Al to ask about substitutes in the mix, but I did not hear back. I was able to get the gravel at price I am happy with but as for the tur face and the fir bark, I have not worked out a price I am happy with yet.

I want to do some tests with containers for plants to see if the gritty mix will work.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0519004127574.html?19

Google words like gritty mix failure if you can't see the thread, and it should come up on top

I think the problem here, (I hope you can see the photo) the gritty was too big, not screened enough.

The pigeon grit could have lime in it. I bought a bonsai mix granite. I was going to use chicken grit but it was made of limestone not granite. Bonsais cost a huge amount of money so if the eBay seller was selling limestone and not granite the negative feed back from angry bonsai growers would put him out of business.

The reptile bark was the wrong kind of bark, it was not fir or it was not really bark.

He or she did not skimp on the tur face by using oil dri, so that can't be the problem.

I think if one cheats on the ingredients you can end up with a disaster. It may be possible to cheat, but I am doing a lot of thinking it over before I start.

It would be bad to buy cheaper ingredients and have a failure then go out and buy the right ingredients. That would cost more than doing it right the first time.

Someone should create a cheater's guild to the mixes. I have not spend enough time working with containers to be an expert.

If you can get bark in bulk from a landscape supplier all the better. People also use repti bark brand from what I've read but it is more expensive. The crushed granite goes by the name gran-i-grit (grower size) or #2 cherry stone for feeding chickens and has a chicken on the bag. The turface is called mvp and is used for baseball fields. I haven't used the granite or turface so I'm not sure where to buy them, but I've used the 5:1:1 and it works great, even if you don't have the correct screens to make the perfect mix. With San Francisco's climate, I don't think over watering or drying out are likely to be major concerns.

Succulents for large shallow terracotta pots in all-day sun

Here is a link that might be useful: Search results 'tapla gritty mix'

I can get the chicken feed from a feed store in half moon bay, but when I called them they said the chicken grit has lime in it, and so it can't be used for the mix. That is why the bonsai granite you can find on ebay is guaranteed not to have lime. The lime appears to have cause the failure of the poster who posted to link I am a gritty mix failure. I have alkaline soil and water so any lime would be the worst thing I can do in my soil. I want to be able to reuse the soil mix in my garden by recycling it into the compost bin.