Lets talk about Tea-Noisettes.

16 years ago

Which are your favorites, by color?

Group A are roses that for me are "must haves" followed by second choices, which I'd grow if I had acreage.

My "A list" :

"Mme. Alfred Carriere" and California "Lamarque"

because I love white roses. M.A.C. gets p.m. pretty badly near the S.F. coastline, and California "Lamarque" is healthier and has a larger summer flush it appears. Both have superb autumn bloom cycles, with California "Lamarque" being one of the last roses to fully flush in late November, here.

"Alistair Stella Gray" because I love those pretty yellow pom-poms.

"Marechel Niel" love that sublime hue of yellow.

_________________

I am hemming and hawing about which rose to bring to my new home, because I love "Reve d'Or" as much as "Crepescule" and I only have room for one BIG rosebush and it is either one of those, or "Secret Garden Climbing Musk".

"Gloire de Dijon" I always loved this rose in other peoples' gardens, but the open framework of its' growth habit does not raise the passion of my soul. Still undecided. I must love the bloom and the plant of a rose to be willingly seduced into bringing it home with me.

Vintage Gardens site (God bless them) says that "Bouquet d'Or" is nearly everblooming, does anyone here grow it? The rose in their photo is luscious.

____________________________

____________________

Luxrosa

Featured Answer

jerijen

16 years ago

Lux,

Reve d'Or is one of my all-time-favorites -- extremely well-suited to my conditions. She's the one I would keep, of all of this wonderful class of roses.

MAC mildews a great deal of the time down here. I could live without her. I may, very soon, to be frank.
Lamarque I love. It's a winner all over California.

I've always wanted a good Crepuscule.
Thought I grabbed one, when we were at ARE in the Fall. Got home, and found that what I had instead was a very vigorous 'Jaune Desprez.' Now THERE is a rose that is happy here!
It's been shoving up basals every since it got here.

But, not to be thwarted, I grabbed a small but vigorous Crepuscule at the Cemetery earlier this month, and am looking forward to that.

Jeri

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Comments (19)

jbfoodie
16 years ago
I have MAC, C Lamarque, Crepuscule, Marechal Niel, Secret Garden Musk Climber & Bouquet d'Or. My MAC is in a lot of shade, but still puts on a great spring flush--it is a great big bomb of a rose. Lamarque is one of my new favorites (if that means anything anymore, lol!). The blooms are to die for. They are well petaled and frilly. They remind me of West Side Road Cream Tea--crepe papery blooms. Great scent too. SGMC is vigorous and bloomiferous (is this even a word?)--love it. MN is one of my favs for color, best fragrance ever and bloom form. My BdO is young yet, but the blooms are amazing and smelly. Crepuscule, while still a young one, is over 9 feet tall and the blooms are a pretty dark apricot (almost orange, but a good hue). I really like all of these roses. If I had to choose one for a big bush, I would choose SGMC. It blooms all the time even in a shady area and it is easy to train--the single blooms sparkle in the sunshine. I grow Crepuscule over an arbor, but I think it would work similarly to SGMC. I am not sure about the rebloom yet on Crep. My BdO is only 6 months in the ground, but is is blooming all the time and in a fair amount of shade to boot. My A List would consist of Lamarque, SGMC, MN and BdO.
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jerijen
16 years ago
I agree with Foodie.
If I could only choose one of those, it would be Secret Garden Musk Climber.

THEN Reve.

THEN, I am coming to believe, "Setzer Noisette," a found rose, originating apparently in Virginia.
I got it from Joyce Demits, and I would really love to see it distributed further.
It's a very mannerly climber, well-suited to an arbor, but it appears that the volume of bloom is going to be
-- STUPENDOUS.

Jeri
melissa_thefarm
16 years ago
Why has no one brought up 'Duchesse d'Auerstaedt'? She may not be the best of them all, but is at least a worthy competitor, particularly for someone who has an unsatisfied longing for huge, globular, golden yellow blooms on a big plant. In fact, she's an amazing, marvelous rose. Fragrant, of course.

Melissa
mendocino_rose
16 years ago
Are you saying you have room for all of your A list? Or do you have room for only one big rose? MAC is huge and Lamarque is gigantic. I know that Marechal Niel needs a happy place to grow well. My favorite tea-noisette is Madame Berard. My friend calls it the "lingerie rose" because of its satiny flesh color.
nearlywild
16 years ago
Although my climate is different, I am reading with interest. Of those mentioned, I haven't tried Secret Garden Musk or Madame Bernad. Anyone know how those do in the hot south?
paparoseman
16 years ago
Luxrosa, if you do not like the open growth of Gloire de Dijon you will probably not like Bouquet d'Or as it has the same type of growth. Mine came from ARE nine years ago so it has had plenty of time to fill out.

If nothing else the blooms are as nice in person as they are in pictures.

Lance
carolfm
16 years ago
Jean, the jury is still out on Secret Garden Musk in the south (at least here). It is only two years in my garden but so far it has grown vigorously and smells wonderful, seems unbothered by the heat, but already I have noticed a propensity for blackspot. She hasn't defoliated from it yet and seems to shake it off and keep blooming. So far I really like her but she is still too new to say what her disease resistance will ultimately be in this area.

Carol
jerijen
16 years ago
Carol, yes.
Blackspot may indeed become a problem for SGMC, in a climate where that is a real problem.
Here, it is not -- so it is not. :-)

But, remember, the query really was about Tea Noisettes -- and this rose is not one.

Jeri
carolfm
16 years ago
Jeri, I was responding to a question from Jean (if you will look up a couple of posts) regarding Secret Garden Musk in the south. I am well aware of what kind of rose SGMC is. I have no idea what is a problem in your climate, but I do know what is a problem in mine and will respond to questions about how a rose does in the south. I don't try to give advice to growers in other areas since I don't know anything about their conditions.

Carol
cweathersby
16 years ago
Something is wrong with my SGMC. Blackspot totally defoliates her. This spring the leaves are barely even coming out. I wouldn't even know what the flowers smelled like because it isn't healthy enough to bloom. I sprayed last year, I have sprayed a couple of times this year. Spray doesn't seem to help. I hate to make a rash judgment - maybe it's just that something is wrong with this plant. I've got some blackspot prone roses, but I've never seen a rose that won't even try to grow new leaves.

Mme Berard is my favorite rose of all time, and I've tried to get other Tea-Noisettes in hopes that they will be as wonderful as this one. Growth habit in the south: big thick canes, going in every direction. I have high hopes that this will turn into a big, monstrous (12x12 or more) bush. I might should have planted her as a climber. Not totally disease resistant, but Gloire de Dijon IS her parent, so she came by it honestly.

Looking at this list of T-Ns has me worried. I've lost Rev, GdD, and Bouquet d Or, and old garden roses don't really die at my house. These may be the only ones to ever kick the bucket that weren't HTs. Hmmmm.
patricianat
16 years ago
CWEATHERSBY, Can you tell me what happened to your tea-noisettes that you lost. I am sure you have probably read about my losses. I am not completely satisfied the diagnosis I got from the Ag people is right. Stress, drought, maybe blackspot, some spider mites perhaps last year and late freeze this year ... I just don't buy it.
huttnem
16 years ago
The color variations Crepuscule has are beautiful. Plus it is nearly thornless. I don't grow Reve d' or Bouquet D'or so can't compare features. I did however see the Bouquet D'or at Vintage and it was wonderful. If you live not too far (and haven't already been) I believe their gardens are open early May. After I saw Bouquet D'or there, I so wanted it but had no room for it.
jerijen
16 years ago
Carol, please note that the original poster is in California.
Had she been in the South, I would probably not have responded.

Huttnem -- Have you ever seen Crepuscule in full bloom, in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden?
That's a sight to lauch a thousand rose orders, I swear.

FWIW, it appears that Reve was highly-recommended and widely-used in 19th-Century Southern California -- It's still pretty wonderful in this climate.

Jeri
cweathersby
16 years ago
Patricia,
Glorie de Dijon - Died this winter. 3 years old. Was in too much shade, but I had read that this was a rose that could tolerate some shade. It never was a strong rose, but I wasn't expecting it to die. Beautiful blooms. I want another one of these. Love that fleshy color.
Rev d Or - Lived for 2 years. Grew by leaps and bounds, then one spring it leafed out and then died before blooming. I look at my roses often and the death was very sudden. One day it looked bad, within a couple of days after that it was dead. I think this happened last spring.
Bouquet d Or - Bought from ARE, so it was a 2 or 3 gallon rose. I think it was bought and planted in the early fall. It didn't grow much and was dead within a year (maybe a half a year). This was 2 or 3 years ago.
I also lost Sombruil the climber. It lived for 3 years then started dying back this past winter. I kind of thought it would come back from the ground this year, but no such luck.
I hope this helps. I've lost some HTs to the creeping die back crud, but some of these OGRs were kind of sudden.
I've got other noisettes in the same area: Jaune Desprez, MAC, and others whose names I can't remember, but they are all very much alive. .... so far.
luanne
16 years ago
Just a note, Jeri, you might note that you responded inappropriately and disrespectfully to Carol's response to Jean's question as she does live in the south and was not asking about tea roses.It was an understandable mistake, you apparently just didn't read all the posts. Apologizing and admitting our mistakes fosters the friendly climate we all value here on this forum. I've always loved it that with the whole world going insane we could meet here as friends. My two cents.
la
collinw
16 years ago
I didn't find Jeri's comments inappropriate or disrespectful.

However, I am appalled that no one has mentioned my favorite tea-noisette beauty, CÃ©line Forestier. True, she may ball a bit in the spring, but oh...what a beautiful quartered form and the fragrance!
rjlinva
16 years ago
I found out this past week that my Celine Forestier may actually be Crepuscule. So, I'm thinking that what I thought was Crepuscule is now a deceased Celine Forestier. Oh well.

I'm loving the noisette Jacques Amyot a whole lot right now. The flowers are gorgeous...the bush is graceful.

Robert
buford
16 years ago
My 2 year old Crepuscule is FINALLY blooming. And it's gorgeous. I know I'll eventually have to move it because it would take over the spot I have it in, but I'm enjoying it now.

Also my Reve d'Or is taking off and the blooms are lovely. After the spring flush I have to arrange it better along the fence and arbor. I sort of just let it go and now it's a mess! But a beautiful mess.

HMM, I went berserk on teas this year, maybe I'll go equally berserk on Noisettes next year.

Lets talk about Tea-Noisettes.

jerijen

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