How does this look?

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rainbow_2007, thanks for taking the time to look and give me advice, it's easy to visualize when you edit the pictures like you did.

Globe Blue Spruce, a quick look, doesn't go above zone 8? (I'm more like 9b) but maybe I can find something of similar type. THere is a camellia there that died back due to my sprinkler negligence, but having some kind of other evergreen bush in that rough area I think is a great idea.

As to the porch area, I think I'd rather not close off the porch, so if I wanted to sit there, I could still see out? but I was kindof considering planting some type of lower evergreen there in a line in front of the porch...? Maybe something more like 3-4 feet?, so if you're sitting on a bench on the porch there, you could still see out... but give the area some more structure??

When I look at this I see a lot of chartreuse plants which do add light to the area. Seems like they need a contrast color. Since you are in an enviable area for tropicals what about a flowery purplish dwarf tree.

J

J, purplish dwarf tree? could you give me an example? Where would you put it?

thanks!

Aimee, that's where you could put the Purple Pony Plum. Trust me, you do NOT want those conifers there. Think "fire fodder". Think root interference, particularly with your slab. Remember you have heavy compaction. Those roots are going to come to the surface for air and water and they'll run across the surface in search of it. I've seen it repeatedly in that valley. Kim

I can't suggest what kinds of plants you should use for that area, but Kim's comments gave me an idea. Why don't you create a raised bed across the porch area where you can have a height variation and then you won't really have to worry about the compacted soil as you would have control of the soil in the bed ? Then you can experiment with several different kinds of plants. It doesn't have to be high, but just because it is at a different level, it would create interest.

Smiles,
Lyn

I think those redbuds are going to be great

There are many kinds of lavenders you could add or a ceanothus. A neighbor just got a few varieties of them for her garden.

I would also consider adding a sandstone rock or two?

I fill spaces in our beds with CA poppies, they come back again really nicely and attract good bugs.

Ceanothus is iffy there due to the heat and sun intensity. It would need to be on a mound or raised bed due to the drainage. Concha would be one of the hardiest in that type of situation. Kim

I'm not familiar with your area at all, but here in the Dallas area, my Mme Alfred de Carriere is an absolute monster size!

Aimeekitty,
I was thinking that you would want to use the porch to sit
and the sky pencil would give you some privacy & shade without blocking your view. They are 3'x 10' at maturity and are slow growers. I don't know if root interference is going to be any more from the holly than the redbuds you have there? But you would need to add some garden sulfur to keep it green since you mentioned your soil is alkaline.
ogrose makes a good point about MAC, in your area they may get too bit for the location you have them in. They may actually provide a good screen for your porch!

For the other side if you could just go with dwarf boxwoods available at your local nursery.

Boxwood can be a little fussy, use common myrtle (Myrtus communis) instead. Wonderful sweet fragrance to the foliage, shear to any size, inexpensive, slow growing so you don't have to shear very often, can survive and look pretty on winter rain alone.

HoovB, I don't know what AimeeKitty will do, but I am thinking of planting a myrtle. Thanks for the suggestion.

I was thinking about your garden, I would probably try and set some furniture on that patio and sit and see what kind of sight lines you want and where your current plants will end up. Even if it is not the furniture you really want out there, it will give you an idea.

Have you tried www.Laspilitas.com ? They have a couple of good tools for looking for the right native for your area.

I use a lot of what we already have on the lot in our landscaping, but that is because we have decades worth of plants to dig and move. Mostly bulb types, I have cala lilies all over the place, especially where they get some shade and the neighbors excessive watering keeps them happy-a downspout can give some extra free water too. Amaryllis Bella Donna are something I pop in too for the winter green and the cotton candy sweet flowers in the late summer. Iris, daffs, glads etc add green when other things are bare. I also put in a lot of society garlic plus some daylilies and agapanthus that I picked up off the free section on craigslist. The aggies are not my fav, but they do fill a few spots and are chicken proof (another concern in part of our yard)

Another idea, if you are not sure what you want, Costco has some 5g shrubs that might look good in a pot either at the back of the bed or on the patio.

will a plum take a bright shade situation well?

I was seriously considering myrtle from the last time you guys gave me a shortlist of shrubs. they are seriously cute when they bloom too. I think perhaps I'll do a row of them inbetween the MACs.

as to the MACs, I naively am hoping they will get pretty big. But probably their lack of full sun and perhaps my horrid soil in that position will keep them from getting quite as monstrous.

Kippy-the-Hippy , I hope the redbuds will be great! I feel like they don't bloom like the ones I've seen around town (ie mine hardly bloom at all.. for 3 years...!)

ceanothus has not done well for me previously,... but I would like to add some more of that grey blue gross lavender. :) it did really well this past year in the areas with raised and proper drainage.

I have a lot of poppies coming up from seed each year in the back, but for some reason hadn't thought of adding some to the front, thanks fo rthe suggestion! I have some yarrow coming up from seed and hopefully some more santa barbara daisy, too.

I appreciate the advice you guys! Please feel free!

Do you have some kind of theme or look you are after?

To me, roses with boxwood hedges are a bit more formal. The redbuds and lavenders seem less formal to me, I am going to assume that the home owners association has some limits on what you can do as well. The house looks kind of California Spanish Tuscan style. What about using the style of the house with that bed. A small sized NON fruiting olive might be nice on the smaller bed under the window. Rosemary might work well with that and a few move lavenders. You could use the roses for their color pops and the other plants for the purples-blues-greens as a mellow background for them.

You could also define the edge of the covered patio with a couple of small sections of concrete cast balustrade.

Our neighbor has a beautiful plant that is a dusty gray/purple-of course I can not think of the name-I can ask tomorrow. But it would make for a LARGE shrub if that is what you are looking for.

How about Osmanthas Fragrans (Sweet Olive or Tea Olive)? At the risk of getting jumped on from others on this forum, I'd have to say that it's one of my all time favorite plants. Evergreen, no pests, easy care, forgiving, easily trimmed and kept to size and its tiny blooms give fragrance to the ENTIRE yard.

Here is a picture of one in my garden. It's the plant behind the bird bath.

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Sounds good to me, Gardenatlanta. I love my Osmanthus. Zero trouble, infinitely pruneable -- have kept it to 6' x 6' now for at least 10 years. Very drought tolerant. I don't have any myself, but the myrtles at U.C. Davis have always looked great to me, too.

I love a mostly informal cottage style with a few more formal backbone elements to add a little structure.
A good example of what I like would be this section of the Huntington Gardens:
combo of roses, irises, some sort of boxwoody thing and a flowering non-fruiting tree, etc.
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another area: but I don't think I"d have quite so much topiary... but some structured evergreens in a couple areas would be nice.
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I like the idea of adding more rosemary, though I have to be careful about where I add it as it really wants great drainage. But it does well out here given that caveat. I'm definitely adding more grosso lavender.

Osmanthas Fragrans seems lovely! Where were you thinking I should put it? The smaller bed by the garage that gets more shade? will it tolerate some shade?

My Osmanthus is on an east-facing wall near a north-facing wall, so it gets little sun after noon to 1 pm or so. The area by your garage looks like it might be similar.

I don't have the slightest idea what look you're going with... formal, informal, etc.

But one other approach is edibles. How about a dwarf citrus tree (or two)? They have waxy dark green leaves all year round, and beautiful smelling blossoms during the early spring.

Just an idea.

What ever you plant, don't put it too close to the house. Protect your foundation and structure. You will most probably have to remove the MACs. One completely overwhelmed the front of my two-story house. They may look manageable now, but they get huge, truly huge. You won't be able to get to your front door.

You don't believe me? Wait two or three years...

The same goes for Lordly Oberon! That monster can get HUGE! Kim

re: MAC, even though it's a partial shade situation? I picked MAC because it's slightly shade tolerant, but also because I figured a less vigorous rose might not grow well in such a situation...? Was I being overly worried about growing a climber in that periodic shade situation?

I was going to put Janet Inada and Maman Cochet CL on my back fence, but should I instead switch them with MAC? :(

Aimee, what no one takes into consideration is when a plant is "shade tolerant", it does not mean it will remain mannerly, within bounds in the shade. All roses, and many other plants, when planted in less than ideal light, WILL grow toward the stronger light and will stretch, get larger, to make it up in to that light. If what you put there is normally expected to be five feet tall and it stretches for the light, it can easily become twice what you expected to reach the light where it will flourish. You see that all the time with the elongated, more spindly roses in older areas where trees and other plantings have over shadowed what initially was a sunny bed. Instead of having six inch lengths of can between the foliage, now there is a foot or more with larger leaves on thinner canes before you find a flower. And, there are often far fewer flowers on a far less dense plant.

Even if where you're putting the rose has enough total lumens for it to grow and perform, it will grow toward the stronger light so make sure whatever you put there can be managed always trying to grow out where you hadn't thought to or been able to put it in the first place. Kim

I guess I don't entirely understand. :\

the MACs seem to be doing really well, while some other hybrid musks, etc, aren't growing as well, which should be expected since MACs are called "monsters" but it makes me hesitant to remove them and plant something else there that might not grow...? The MACs are getting enough sun to bloom reasonably (at least to my eyes...)

My other choices are:
from the Pot Ghetto:
Elie Beauvillain
Maman Cochet Cl
Janet Inada
.... none of which are listed as shade tolerant from what I can find.

or to essentially shovel prune or keep in a pot two healthy roses (either the MACS or two of the above...) and
instead of planting those two get something new and wait 3 more years before they do anything... :(
If I got something new, from a cursory look the only things that appeared to fit the bill and be shade tolerante were:
Buff Beauty
Marechal Niel
Jaune Desprez

Aimee,

I have Eli Beauvillain in afternoon sun(2 p.m.) doesn't have trouble blooming. They are still young so I'm not sure if size will be a problem but it seems more bushy than stiff woody canes like other climbers.

Tea Olive gets too big for the space near your porch. You want an evergreen that doesn't get bigger than 3 or 4ft at maturity. Since a lot of the common evergreens may not like your z9 I would visit your local nurserries and see what's availble.

Your MACs do look demure at the moment. I have 3 MACs in different settings (yes, I am nuts), all about 7 to 9 years old, and just went out and measured them. With pruning (and in the case of the one growing in decent soil on the west side of the house, "muscular" pruning that takes one day each twice a year; the other in crummy conditions, just one day a year), MAC on a pergola or trellis can be kept about 12 to 15' tall, 14' wide, and 9-10' deep. The third MAC, in partial shade and lousy soil under a huge old pepper tree that sucks up most of the water and nutrients, is about 20' tall and 16' wide and 12' (at least, wanders over to my neighbors trees at that point -- new neighbors whose screams I expect to hear any day now when they realize how far Madame Al is over in their trees...). This one is allowed to run amok (obviously) and is all mixed up with what I think is Fellemberg (was supposed to be Parson's Pink, long story) and is lovely, but is obviously motivated by the extra shade of the pepper tree to stretch. MAC actually tolerates pruning rather well, but intelligent pruning (don't create witches' brooms). Like you, I originally planted two MACs at my entryway and ended up removing one: one is enough here. Conditions in your yard may well differ.

I have all the ones on your "new candidates" list. Jaune Desprez is just as rampant as MAC but worse because of vicious thorns (I dearly love it, but it costs in blood). Marechal Niel is so far modest-sized at roughly 10' x 4' after three years, but that's not long enough to know; some I have seen are definitely big. On the other hand, MN has a reputation as something of a fussy-buttons and is not looking like a house-eater here yet, though parked in prime real estate, so maybe not as rampant. Buff Beauty is definitely the "mannerly climber" it is often descrbed as. I have kept one at 7' tall and 4' wide and 16' long along a fence for about 9 years.

Debbie

Aimee,

If it were me, I would plant an evergreen hedge along your left property line (or an attractive fence) about 6-7 feet tall. This would form a background against which your flowers and small shrubs would pop. It would also screen your porch and garden from the neighboring houses and counterbalance the mass of your garage. Hoovb's suggestion of Myrtus communis (myrtle) sounds like it would work well and Osmanthus fragrans is lovely if it will grow in your location. Both are fragrant.

Cath

Cath- I think I'm pretty set on putting myrtle as a medium hedge along the porch (the left side) I really like that idea!

on the right side (by the garage in the bed with rita sammons) there is a spot in the back near the porch that is almost exactly 6' by 6'....
so I guess I could put an osmanthus fragrans there? I do like the idea of that, if it would look good in the spot.

Osmanthus is, by nature, a large shrub (up to small tree size), but it is also a plant that responds quite well to regular pruning/hedging. I just measured mine: 6' x 6' x 6', kept at that size for 10 years now, and it always blooms quite heavily through the fall and is fully foliaged to the ground (no bare stems to be seen, anywhere!). So, pruning required, but would likely fit the spot and the leaves, being thick and leathery, tend to always look nice, a good dark green background.

I was over by Government Center in Van Nuys yesterday and I thought of your question, Aimee, so when I encountered these Myrtus communis compacta, I snapped them with my phone. You can see what it does if left unmolested as well as when tortured by pruning. It was an ideal opportunity as they are on opposite sides of the white wrought iron gate from one another. Kim

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catspa and roseseek, thanks so much! I really appreciate it!

oh my, could I finally be ready to buy some plants to put there...? it seems like both the myrtle and the osmanthus would work very well...!

(there's still the trouble of the MACS of course, but... I'd be happy to get some evergreen shrubs in in the meantime... it's nice cool weather to do it...)