but if I wait... I'm missing a year of growth that those roses could have had! This is my rationale.

but I'm a newbie, so I really should probably wait. And I did pretty much put them in at the space apart they should be. (ie, other than the bare spot on the other side, I really don't have that much space for more.) Also, I may change my mind after seeing the roses grow up a bit as to which are my favorites and what I want more of, etc... so I really really should wait. :D

(but... I really like big piles of roses growing into each other... sooo...)

Honestly, I'll probably wait (or cave and get like ONE.) but it's fun to talk about I guess. :)

My problem usually is that I do not have patience. I know that it takes 3+ years to see the real potential of the rose, that's why I want to plant them all asap (or last year if the time travel was possible). x) Internet does not make the addiction easier, though I was pretty good in buying rare plants in pre-internet era as well. x)

Oh well, could be worse, I could have enough money/space to collect cats. x)

You didn't say how many you did buy this year. To be serious though, I think, in your heart, you know you really do have enough for now. Ordering just a few is hard but it makes you discerning too. We are all guilty of seeing a lush photo and lusting BUT, this is a living plant which really deserves the best of your time and if you are still newish, why hurry. You have, I hope, many more growing years so I would advise you to plan your garden with other plants to fill in gaps between your growing roses and start a list for next year. That way, also, your garden will have room to change because you, and your gardening choices, surely will. Sorry, sorry for being dour and dull.

I bought 28 this year, but we started with an empty lot with no plants at all. :)

Campanula, yes, basically, (to be serious) that's what I'm thinking, that after a year of having them, I might have different, more educated, ideas and might want different roses next year instead of the choice that I would make (right now) this year. :) so it leaves me some spots for later.
but it's hard to wait. :)

I thought this was a forum for enablers. LOL

Aimeekitty- Do you have any climbing roses, polyanthas, hybrid musks, roses of all different sizes? If so, that's great...if not, I think you need more roses!

Seriously, if you've filled up your space (as they grow into it) then it's good to wait, but I think layering roses is just beautiful. Your garden is so pretty and I'm sure whatever you do will be lovely :)

Honestly, I used to buy more than I had room for but I don't have lots of space or areas with enough sun. Luckily I have a friend you has lots of property - he takes all my roses and plants that haven't worked out so I don't feel guilty. Hopefully they have found better homes. This year I bought one rose. There is a distant possibility I will be another. That's it for spring 2010.

The responsibility and care roses require sobered me up so I've been clean 2 years now...

aimeekitty, I had to dispose of 50 roses (most of them were disposed on the brush pile) before I learned what would do well for me here. Do I regret it? Only a tiny little bit. It's all a learning experience after all, and the 92 roses I have now should all do very well.

Do you have a lawn? If yes, you have room for more roses (lawns are environmentally unfriendly). Do you have arbors and/or pergolas? If no, you need those and the roses to put on them.

If you could describe your zone and climate that would give us a chance to enable you more easily. Most people put their zone and state right after their username. Whether you have humid or dry summer heat (or very little of either) is very important in term of diseases and roses that have resistance to them. Unlike campanula, I believe you're begging to be given permission to buy more roses, but only the right ones. My dear, you've come to the right place.

Ingrid

IN THE FRONT:
Please excuse my lame drawing. :)
{{gwi:250102}}
Great Maiden's Blush Alba (2) (to climb up the side of the garage in a shadier spot)
Madam Alfred Carriere (2) (to climb up the porch)
Lyda Rose Hybrid Musk (2) (shadier spot near garage)
Felicia Hybrid Musk (shadier spot)
The Prince
Wildeve

These are mostly within about 6 feet from the house and get a little bit shaded in the afternoon. I could potentially put some more roses further out from the house (where it's sunnier)

----------
BACKYARD:
Mortimer Sackler

Jude the Obscure (2)

William Shakespeare 2000 (2)

Reine des Violettes (in the back)

Sydonie

Tiffany Hybrid Tea (the only HT...)

Compte de Chambord (2) (shorter for more of the front of the bed)

Raubritter (3) (shorter for more of the front of the bed)

Belle Story (more in the back of the bed)

Eden cl (in the corner to climb up the back fence)

James Galway Climbing (is the ONLY one of my bareroots that hasn't sprouted. :( I want it to climb up the side fence)

Lady Banks (again, climbing up the back fence)

Sombreuil Floribunda (to climb up the arbor I don't have yet)

Gloire de Dijon (to climb up the other side of the arbor I don't have yet.)

-------------
basically,... the back left and back middle sides of my backyard are pretty much full. They have climbing ones on the back and shorter ones in the front and larger ones in the back.
{{gwi:250103}}

{{gwi:250104}}

{{gwi:250105}}

But.... the back right side could potentially have a few. Regardless, I think I will probably wait till last year.
But here's the spot where I could put some more. That little tree in the back right corner, though, will eventually be a 20 foot cherry tree... so... I might have to not put roses there anyway due to potential eventual shade?
{{gwi:57691}}

Thanks Ingrid!
My backyard lawn really isn't too big, and the small amount I have, I'd like to keep (at least for now. :) ) (seriously. it's pretty small. The neighborhood dude won't bother with being paid to mow it.)
... though at some point I may pull out that very small postage stamp lawn in the front and just replace it with roses if the HOA will let me. (they probably will... it's a water conscious community) My husband hates mowing it, but that's not due to its largeness, he just hates working in the yard at all. :)

I live in southwestern zone 18 (zone 9-10) I live kinda-sorta near the Antelope Valley, but it's not as extreme as that where I am. Alkaline soil and kinda clay-y. We have dry hot summers... but we do get a bit cool at night since we're kinda near the desert and are a bit higher up.

... also the sideyard on one side gets plenty of sun and is totally empty and could totally have an arbor. (lol)

Eventually I wanted a pergola over part of the patio in the backyard,... but that will have to wait for another year, the cost is just too much. The plan of course, was to cover that with wisteria and/or roses. Maybe in a couple years.

I saw absolutely no evidence of a pot ghetto. Therefore. I say keep researching and buy those that you must have. Tour local rose gardens to help you decide.

Everything you have done looks wonderful!

"I should be patient and not buy more roses, right?"

You're kidding me right??? ;-)
I think you've come to the wrong place for that advice!!!

I, for one, buy plants most often when I'm under stress, but that said, points have been well made for both 'do what makes you feel good' and 'wait until you see what you've got'.

In particular for the former, there's the satisfaction and anticipation of your new bush. I would have to also argue that for less than the price of most bouquets, you will be a year ahead of next year's assessment of whether or not it works in your garden for whatever reason. Soooo, if the flowers are ghastly and it doesn't speak to you next year, oh well, right? If you think it's lovely, you're a year ahead and you'll enjoy this year with all of your 'baby' or 'puppy' band roses. Never met a puppy I didn't think was adorable and roses are the same - as a grown up, mileage may vary, but with a bush you can 'unadopt' it, right? ;-) I mean, if it were a perennial, you wouldn't think twice, right?

I dunno what age group you are in, but the wisest garden advice that I've had lately is that I'm not getting any younger. So, the time to get started is now if you want to appreciate a mature bush and if it's not what you thought, move it or lose it. I was a little shocked at first, but as time goes on, I think this was really wise advice...

One thing.
The concern with trees isn't just shade.
It's ROOTS.

So planting under the shade of the cherry tree may not be feasible. OTOH, planting to the EAST of the tree, so it shades roses in the afternoon when you work up to scorching -- THAT makes sense.

But also, before you buy a lot more, take time to figure out how BIG the ones you have will be, in 5 years. And then you can think about the size of roses you might consider.

Jeri

aimee, have you considered some of the smaller Bourbon and tea roses? I've found that the Bourbons seems to really like a hot, dry climate and they bloom a lot and are fragrant. Souvenir de la Malmaison and its sports, Mme. Dore, Appoline and others would probably do well for you and you'd have some wonderful antique roses to call your own. For your walls some of the tea climbers or noisettes would also be splendid. Vintage Gardens is a source I use a lot for roses; you might want to visit their website. Other good sources are Chamblees and Rogue Valley Roses. Getting a good idea of what's out there is a good first step, and it's a lot of fun.

Ingrid

That 20 ft cherry tree in the back right corner--that's where the hosta bed goes, right? I always use shady trees as excuses to plant hostas. And hostas always look good with roses.

Kate

I'm wondering if you are going to get any bloom at all from Albas. Don't they need a winter chill? Not much winter chill in Sunset 18.

I'd loose the wisteria. What a pain that stuff is, unless you like to get a on a ladder and prune every day all spring and summer, all for about 10 days of flowers, if that. Been there, shovelled that. Besides you will be busy keeping MAC from swallowing your house.

Hostas in So Cal? Don't think so. They need winter chill, too.

I just read somewhere that "Gardening is the art of pouring money into a hole in the ground."

'Bout right, but it's more fun that that. ;)

I second Hoov's concern about Albas.
In my own Coastal Southern CA area, I have at one time or another grown Gallicas, Damasks, Mosses, and Albas.
None of those roses live here anymore. Wonderful as they are, they don't bloom here.

In the long haul, the Old Roses that will perform best for you will be Teas, Chinas, Noisettes, and Polyanthas.
After planting all of the things that are doomed to fail here, I learned to love with passion the things that are very happy here. (Which is a long way of saying, "Lose the Albas.")

Wisteria tho -- If you have the right place for it (AND the right wisteria) is "worth it." At least, it is for us.

Jeri

I really appreciate the thoughtful responses you guys! You're so nice and helpful! I really appreciate it.

If it helps at all, I'm inland, up in the hills a bit.

lagomorphmom - I'm 30 :)
but... after mulling over ya'lls responses... I think I may like to add a few this year. Because it would give them more time to mature like you folks are saying... and I can reevaluate them next year.
(And ,... I'm UNDERSTRESS. :) I'm working most of this weekend trying to meet some deadlines at work... and all I want to be doing is sitting outside admiring flowers.) .... I'm guessing that Huntington Gardens is in full bloom about now...? Maybe I will take a break from overtime tomorrow and go see. I haven't been in a couple months.

I'm sure I have room for a few more, even considering the ones I have's eventual mature size. The areas where I have roses are "full",... Before I ordered any, I did a drawing of the yard with the eventual sizes of the roses in mind... but there are some areas that are open in other areas. (I won't plant roses under the cherry tree, don't worry!)

HOOVB -
awww, I may rue the wisteria later, but I've always been a fan of it, so I'll keep it for now.
as to the albas... the only one I have (well two) is Great Maiden's Blush,... both have had a single bloom, but they're bands. I have no idea, really...! We do get a little bit of cold, but yeah. I don't know! :)

INGRID-
I'm open to almost any class of rose. It would be fun for me to try some different classes as long as it's not bad for my climate. I like looking at the different types of blooms and the different foliage, etc. I ordered from RogueValleyRoses and Vintage before! :)

JERI -
Thanks, I'll avoid Gallicas, Damasks, Mosses, and Albas then!

------------------------
OK,... after a couple hours of obsessing and looking at rose photos....
:)....

------------------------
SPOT A:
If you look in pic 3 ( http://pics.livejournal.com/aimeekitty/pic/000d1pgd on the left side of the yard) there is a blue X. I think I could put a climber there on the wall. It gets good sun for almost the whole day.

CONSIDERING:
Crown Princess Margareta (DA) - cl - yellowish peach
---- I thought it would look nice with the irises and rosemary, etc... and would be a good balance to the Yellow Lady Banks on the other part of the yard. I'd put Zephirine or Deuil ddr here,... but I think the intense pink might be too much in that spot. It seems like the light yellow of CPMargareta would feel soothing and mesh here.

---------------------------------------
SPOT B:
the sideyard (on the right side, extended from http://aimeemajor.com/images/photos/2010apr/yard01.jpg )
I could put a climber (or two) here... I'll just need to turn the irrigation on there. It's a relatively narrow sideyard, though, so it can't be something that will be too bushy. It'll need to grow well on the wall or a trellis.)

Zephirine Drouhin (DA) - cl - Bourbon - bright pink
Deuil de Dr. Reynaud - (RVR) - Bourbon - shrub cl - bright pink
Old Blush China -(DA) light pink - cl

Which one would be easier to grow or would get better repeat?
I was also considering New Dawn here.
(or something else you guys suggest...?)

---------------------------------------
SPOT C:
I have room in the front yard for a few shrub roses. It gets mostly afternoon sun, not too extreme.

CONSIDERING:
Carding Mill (DA) - light peach
Queen of Sweden (DA) - light pink
Perle d' Or - RVR - Polyantha - peachy pale pink
Yves Piaget - Hybrid Tea (not sure where to order from)

---------------------------------------
SPOT D:
Well, there's already two albas (Supposedly Great Maiden's Blush) growing in a shady spot in my front yard. I picked them because of shade-tolerance, basically. I was hoping to have them climb up the side of the garage a bit. They both have bloomed... but maybe they won't do well there based on what you guys said? Should I let them stick it out and see what happens? Or should I just shovel-prune them? :( If I should get rid of them, then what could I put there that could be a short climber and take the shade?
Should I try Old Blush China, Cecile Brunner or New Dawn here instead? Some people say they're shade tolerant.

---------------------------------------

I also really liked Souvenir de la Malmaison... but I'd have to buy it as a band.
And really liked the small habit of Madame Dore and Romaggi Plot Bourbon.... but I'm not sure where I can buy them. Vintage doesn't have them except as a custom band.
Mme. Isaac Pereire, Mme. Pierre Oger, Harlow Carr and Francois Juranville also caught my eye...

Aimee -- Bourbons will not be your best friends in most of Southern CA. Take a look at the amount of winter-chill you get.
Me, near the coast, I get NONE. And Bourbons respond by not blooming, and also not growing well.
There is a reason why turn-of-the-century books recommended Tea Roses for this area.
I know that you want to grow Mme. Isaac Pereire -- but out of extensive personal experience, I would recommend against it.
Sadly, I would also strongly recommend against New Dawn.
If it blooms for you, it will probably not repeat, and when I have seen it grown, it was mildewy.

Cecile Brunner (the bush form, I hope) will do well for you here. So will her close relative, Perle d'Or.
I have grown Mme. Pierre Oger.
She is no longer here.

Really, really, really, Bourbons will not be your best friends in Southern California.
As to your Albas.
If they respond like my Gallicas and Centifolias, they may bloom the first year, but they will subsequently decline.
Unless you have a whole wallop of winter chill where you are.

Please feel free to contact me privately. I am happy to assist.

Jeri Jennings
Editor, Heritage Roses Group "Rose Letter"

Coastal Ventura County, Southern California

Jeri, I don't know about the large Bourbons but the small ones have done splendidly for me, not a spot of mildew (even though some other roses are mildewing a bit now). Even as very small bands they're covered with buds and SdlM has been blooming for some time, as have SdlM Rouge and Mme. Dore. Ivy ( tells me that his Mme. Ernest Calvat gives quite a few flushes of bloom a year and it looked magnificent when I saw it a few days ago, with gorgeous blooms. He's grown other Bourbons that bloomed very well for him, including Mme. Dore.

Ingrid

Aimeekitty, your garden drawings are cool and your garden is well done and will be gorgeous in a few years. I, too, am of the mind to buy now so they can start maturing AND in case the learning curve kicks in bigtime. One-third of the roses I bought are gone. Of course, I have to deal with BS and my weird neutral soil, but you have alkaline soil, lack of winter chill and pretty high summer heat so you'll have issues like the rest of us have had - just different ones. And there's always the story about "it just didn't thrill me" and "my gosh, that thing's gonna eat my house!" and "gee, I thought it was supposed to bloom more than that" and "that rose can drink more water than I can afford to give it" and on and on.

As to your potential pergola, you do need to get those climbers going in advance. Buy 4 and pot them up to 3 or 5-gallon pots and let them start growing. Climbers take "a while". Other climbers to consider are Parade, beautiful color, flower form and fragrance, can handle some shade; Aloha, beautiful flower, so far it's growing like a tall stiff shrub here (???); Climbing Maman Cochet - she loves it in my yard - the biggest, fastest, best growing "plant" I've ever seen that's not a weed with drop dead gorgeous blooms; Chromatella, huge HT-like stunning flowers that are near-white with a tinge of magenta in the outer petals - slow to bloom (none the first year) but he's putting on a pretty good show in his second; Reve d'Or - really lovely flowers, easily trained; Lamarque - gorgeous big white flowers on what is looking to be a huge plant; Duchesse d'Auerstadt - none of that wishywashy pale yellow for THIS rose, but a gorgeous egg yolk yellow with lots of petals.

Your walls can be covered with these climbers with the addition of homemade trellis work, either coated-wire or wood - doesn't matter which since you'll never see it after two years. Just make it sturdy - pressure-treated or rebar, standing away from the wall but attached for stability. I'm training mine tightly to the trellis to billow over at the top. If you make your trellises tall (8'), you'll be able to walk under them. I have them down the side lines of my property. Planted 12' or more apart, these big climbers will be a spectacular backdrop for your bushes.

I don't think Zephy will be happy in Zone 9 - not enough chill. The thing to remember with the long Bourbons is that they take the summer off. I thought I was doing something wrong with Maggie (she's gone) then I found out about how they bloom. Not worth putting up with the BS when there's no flowers.

I have high hopes for Francois Juranville, a recent addition to my garden.

When you don't have a lot of horizontal space, you need to go vertical if you want to add roses, and climbers take 2 to 3 years before they look like anything and begin to produce. Definitely, pick the ones you want and buy now.

Sherry

Our average low is 36, we do -rarely- get below freezing. We do get a bit cold at night,... but it's all relative, of course. I basically live in the Canyon Country area, if that helps.

Honestly, If you guys can tell me what classes you think would do well, I'm willing to look within those classes. I was just looking at Bourbons mainly because Ingrid is probably in a similar zone to me and does well with them? But I really don't know much. I appreciate all the suggestions! Hopefully it will save me some heartache. What -should- I be looking at?

Sherry, I was thinking about waiting at least a couple years to put in a pergola... but I just asked my husband about it... and he was all like "why don't you just do it now" (Imagine my face...) So I don't know... I'll have to give it some thought. Thanks for the suggestion about the climbers, I hadn't thought of it that way (to pot them and let them grow before I have the structure). I'll take a look at some of those ones you suggested.

Our average low is 36, we do -rarely- get below freezing. We do get a bit cold at night,... but it's all relative, of course. I basically live in the Canyon Country area, if that helps.

Honestly, If you guys can tell me what classes you think would do well, I'm willing to look within those classes. I was just looking at Bourbons mainly because Ingrid is probably in a similar zone to me and does well with them? But I really don't know much. I appreciate all the suggestions! Hopefully it will save me some heartache. What -should- I be looking at?

Sherry, I was thinking about waiting at least a couple years to put in a pergola... but I just asked my husband about it... and he was all like "why don't you just do it now" (Imagine my face...) So I don't know... I'll have to give it some thought. Thanks for the suggestion about the climbers, I hadn't thought of it that way (to pot them and let them grow before I have the structure). I'll take a look at some of those ones you suggested.

aimeekitty, the Bourbons that Ingrid and I (and those in the heat zones) grow successfully are Souv de la Malmaison and her progeny. They are relatively small, don't throw those long canes, keep blooming through the summer (though, I guess a little slower - don't know yet) and have Tea blood in them. Somehow that makes the difference in making them like the heat, bloom continuously AND smell great. My only problem with them is some blackspot (but I hear it is very bearable), but you don't have that issue, I'm guessing. I loaded up on them this spring, bringing my SdlM clan to 2 SdlM's, 1 climbing SdlM, Mystic Beauty and Capitaine Dyel de Graville. Though SdlM & Mystic Beauty are basically the same rose, how bad can it be to have multiples of a gorgeous rose.

I like your DH. :))

You get less cold than I do in Florida!! Definitely for you Teas, Noisettes, Chinas & polyanthas. There's a lot to choose from though in those groups. And you will find that when you get maxed out you'll know it, but at first you'll fight it and have cravings for MORE, but when your garden starts growing up and filling in, you'll be content with what you have. A small pot ghetto is good for a "just in case" one dies suddenly (faulty sprinkler?) or a gopher gets one or a tree falls on one. Then you can just pop in your spare. They do fine in a bigger pot for a long time. I'd have at least one small, medium & large on hand.

Sherry

I would like to echo campanula's thoughts, since you are new to roses. I am *relatively* new to roses, but not a new gardener. What I have learned over the years is that your tastes will change over time, and if you fill all available space right up front then you have no real space to make changes, without getting rid of plants you have already put in. Also, especially in the highly-enamored newbie stage, you will take LOTS of time "ooh-ing and ahh-ing" over your first blooms, and fussing about feeding and pruning.

When you have a LOT to look after at first, you tend to fail to appreciate each individual plant for their special and unique qualities.

I advocate going slowly, even though it is WAY easier to say than to do. :o)

Love,
Greenhaven (who just received her order of six new Austins even though she doesn't have any place prepared to put them.)

aimeekitty, if your DH says do it now, don't delay! He may change his mind! lol Honestly, that's the biggest part of the battle! Go! Now! :)

Sherry said "you will find that when you get maxed out you'll know it, but at first you'll fight it and have cravings for MORE, but when your garden starts growing up and filling in, you'll be content with what you have." How true! That's what I have been feeling for so long. But, now, I am much more content, as my garden is (finally) full. So, aimeekitty, obviously your garden is not full enough! You have our permission to purchase more!

Ingrid:

In general, long term, Bourbons are not the best Southern CA roses.
This doesn't mean that some Bourbons won't do well in specific microclimates.
It DOES mean that Bourbons are not roses I generally recommend without some caution.

Jeri

Cute, Holleygarden. Thank you also for confirming that the peace I finally have about my garden is real.

Sherry

Thanks so much again for all the feedback, it's like christmas. You'll probably save me years of frustration, thankyou! I hope I'm not missing something in my response... ha ha!

WHERE CAN I GET:
Capitaine Dyel de Graville?
Really interesting to me... but I don't see it on Chamblees, countrysideroses, Vintage, RU, RvR, longagoroses, rosepetalsnursery or DA... Anyone have any ideas?

-------SdlM--------------
Based on what you guys said, it sounds like I should try Mystic Beauty or Souvenir de la Malmaison.
I saw SdlM at Huntington Gardens this morning it looks GORGEOUS and seems to be very happy there. Lots of blooms. Huntington isn't that far from me, so I would guess that what does well there would do well at my house? (I hope?)

Does anyone have another suggestion on where I should buy SdlM? (ie a place that has a larger plant...) Is there ANY difference between Mystic Beauty and SdlM??

-----------------------
SUNNY CLIMBING SPOTS::: (SPOTS A and B) I could go with:

----- Clotilde Soupert cl -
I really like this one and a couple people recommended it. pale pink, seems to be a good repeat? Quick grower?

----- Souvenir de la Malmaison cl
recommended by several people, the non-cl looked great at Huntington!!

----- Maman Cochet cl -
several recommendations
Saw and liked the non-cl version at Huntington. I like CS and SdlM better though??

----- Crown Princess Margareta - cl - yellowish peach
- may be TOO orange? I don't want a bright yellow or bright orange rose... Am more looking for pale yellow or pale peach or pale pink...

----- A Shropshire Lad - cl - peachy pink
Will this do well for me??

----- Alchymist -
This one has no rebloom,... but it looks really gorgeous to me. Would it do well in my area as a climber?

-----------------------
SUNNY FRONT YARD SPOT C:
I have room in the front yard for a few shrub roses. It gets mostly afternoon sun, not too extreme.

I think all of these are still safe? They're either HT, DA or Poly... so those are fine, right? I just saw Queen of Sweden at Huntington this morning, and it was GORGEOUS and I have to have it.

CONSIDERING:
Carding Mill - light peach
Queen of Sweden - light pink
Perle d' Or - - Polyantha - peachy pale pink
Yves Piaget - Hybrid Tea
SdlM Rouge - Bourbon - medium pink -
Grandmother's Hat
Cinderella - (mini!)

-----------------------

SHADEY CLIMBING SPOT D,
what should I try?
Any suggestions?

Nearby is MAC and a pink camellia,... so things that will look lovely with those would be nice. I'd probably prefer a white or a super-light-pink climber for her to match MAC.

how about "Souvenir de St Anne"? It's a sport of SdlM... but a couple people on this thread said they put theirs in pretty deep shade.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesant/msg1108400227024.html
or do you have some other different shadey recs?

Aimeekitty- I'm new to roses too, but I just love going to the Rogue Valley Roses site and looking at all their roses. There are so many that will not grow in my zone...they say zone 6 or 7 and up. You can choose to look up roses by class, zone, color, shade tolerance, thornless, collections, etc. It might be worth a peek :)

Zephy should be fine. It may take a few years to bloom. Climbing Clothilde Soupert is a winner. Climbing Cecile Brunner will do fine. Maggie is a good Bourbon for tough situations. Peggy Martin is a nice one for close to the house or on a small trellis. Hybrid Musks should do well. I like a lot of the Earthkind roses like Belinda's Dream, Marie Pavie, Marie Daly, Carefree Beauty and Souvenir de St Anne's.

I got all my SdlM clan from Rose Petals, but they seem to be out of Capitaine Dyel de Graville and the climber. They do have SdlM. RU's plants are usually big in 1-gallon pots, but mine are decent sized plants one a year old and the other not quite.

Hybrid Wichurana climbers can tolerate some shade. Francoise Juranville is one. They're once-bloomers but do repeat here in Zone 9, I'm told. Here's a link to an article on HMF. The Tea & Tea-Noisette climbers are going to need at least 6 hours of sun.

Clotilde Soupert is VERY pale pink except in the cool times. Now she's pretty much white - and beautiful. I love the strappy petals and color of Perle d'Or. So unique - at least in my garden.

Sherry

aimeekitty, I just took a little walk through my garden with the idea of finding roses that I think you might like and that have done well for me and I believe should do well for you. These are only suggestions of course since personal likes and dislikes should be the very first consideration. Anyway, here goes:

Grandmother's Hat - in its second year already 4 feet tall and wide and blooming like crazy with deep pink, very fragrant flowers. This is becoming one of my very favorite roses. Mine is from Vintage.

Duchesse de Brabant - beautiful and fragrant tea rose, almost perfect in every way. It might like to be shaded from the very hottest afternoon sun. Either Vintage or Chamblee's.

Aunt Margy's Rose - very lovely polyantha, to me far prettier than Clothilde Soupert which I just saw a few days ago and was already white rather than pink here. Rogue Valley Roses

Bishop's Castle - beautiful and fragrant Austin. I recommend it highly. Bought from local nursery.

Carding Mill - beautiful and great in the heat, just a bit too apricot for me but I'm keeping it. Bought locally.

Yves Piaget - Huge pink flowers, does well in heat, I had to have it and love it. Bought locally.

Wife of Bath - delicate and lovely, stays small. Own-root from Vintage.

Cottage Rose - old fashioned ruffled pink blooms, one of my favorites, but not everyone agrees. Can't recall where I bought it.

Mrs. Dudley Cross - beautiful tea rose, completely thornless, would not be without it. Vintage?

Reve d'Or - Fast-growing and prolific bloomer, I grow it in morning sun only. A wonderful warm-weather rose. Vintage.

Spice - charming smaller pink to white tea rose, blooms a lot, even in somewhat shady conditions. Vintage

Souvenir de la Malmaison and SdlM Rouge - from Chamblees, grew quickly, larger than a band. Its sport, Kronprinzessin Viktoria von Preussen is also lovely, with the same good qualities as is Mme. Cornelissen.

I've posted quite a few threads on the Antique Rose Gallery (not the regular rose gallery) if you want to see how some of these roses look in my garden.

Ingrid

thanks ya'll!

Ingrid, aw, I really appreciate you doing that for me. I went through the whole Antique Rose Gallery over the weekend. tee-hee.

I definitely want Grandmother's Hat and Carding Mill. I'm totally in love with them. I think your's are SO GORGEOUS. I can't stand it.

I'm torn between Clothilde Soupert cl and SdlM cl... they seem very similar and both get good recommendations on the forums.

I'm pretty set on trying to get SdlM Rouge. SdlM looked SO FINE at Huntington that it makes me hopeful that it's Rouge cousin would do really well, too. (and also, of course, because it does well for you.)

I like Aunt Margy's Rose, Yves Piaget and Wife of Bath... and Queen of Sweden, Romaggi Plot Bourbon, Perle d' Or...

I guess basically at this point it's going to boil down to what is available at various sites and what I can somehow eliminate. Are there any good nurseries near the Santa Clarita or Antelope Valley that I should be going to to find a local source of roses...?

It's not too late for me to plant, right...?

Aimee, you can still plant, but I wouldn't wait too much longer. I've found that planting too close to summer stresses the roses too much and they won't do very well their first year. If you plant them where there's afternoon shade that will give you a bit more leeway.

Ingrid

just in case you guys were curious about my final choices... I broke down and ordered:

Perle d' Or (for sunny frontyard)
Souvenir de la Malmaison for sunny frontyard)
Grandmother's Hat for sunny frontyard)
Alchymist (for a sunny backyard climbing spot)
Lavender Pink Noisette (for a sunny backyard climbing spot)
Maman Cochet cl (for a sunny backyard climbing spot)
Clytemnestra Hybrid Musk (for the shady frontyard climbing spot)

I might also be getting Souvenir de la Malmaison Rouge if the plant is large enough, otherwise, next spring. Next spring, I'd also like to get Carding Mill and Queen of Sweden, but we'll see how I feel then. I didn't want to get those two this year because they're not recommending I plant bareroots anymore this season (since it's warming up.)

They should be to me by next week at the latest probably and I'll plant them immediately. Thanks for all the indulgence and assistance!

Aimee, you've done a wonderful job with your rose selection. These roses should all do very well for you and I hope they grow very quickly. So far I haven't been able to bring myself to buy a once-blooming rose but Alchymist looks gorgeous in every picture I've seen of it. Good luck with all your new roses!

Ingrid

Aimee, I guess I am a bit late for plant suggestions part, but generally I would also suggest skipping wisteria, especially since you already got one. I liked it too, especially since I could not grow it at my parents place, but overall it is a green blob most of the year, except that spring flush. I would rather pick campsis over wisteria, although it can't be planted near the house walls due to rooting canes. But on the fences it is lovely, as well as various kinds of passion flower - the later might work as companion plant for your once bloomers (not sure if it will do well in CA, but I saw it grow in mountain villages in Spain, with hot and dry summers).

Also, regarding the post stamp lawn - get rid of it. It is pain to maintain, especially around the edges, also most lawn mowers are just too small for it. Just if you got clay, it is a lot of work to remove it, since clay tends to become a concrete in the summer. Also, after you remove it, you most likely will have to improve and even out the soil, so it is really a long term project, especially if being free only in the weekends.

Ingrid, thanks so much again!

I love Passion Flowers, elemire... but I really hate how they get covered in caterpillars. I know caterpillars turn into butterflies, but they kinda gross me out.... also, in my previous experience they're kinda invasive? If I got one, I'd probably pot it, or somehow contain it. They seem to do well here.

Yeah, I'll probably eventually remove the front yard postage stamp lawn. I think that's a project for another year though.

I really have no idea how invasive they may be in your climate, the ones I saw in Spain did not look too bad, even in less maintained areas. I tried to grow one here, but it did not make it through the winter - I saw other people growing it here, but just decided not to bother with it again, especially when there are so many climbers that do well. Which reminds me to dig out honeysuckles that are taking over area around back fence *sigh*.

If you decide to remove your little lawn, it is really a good idea to do it when the ground had decent soaking by rain. I remember we had to remove like a meter of some weird lawn piece, since in summer we decided to enlarge our terrace - we had to water it for 2 days to get it out of concrete state. x)

Harry, you're going to tip the poor girl right over the edge. Any vestiges of doubt will have been removed by your enabling six-step program. In fact, it's making me rethink my constant moan about not having enough room. THANK YOU VERY MUCH! You are sooo bad (and so funny).

Ingrid

Harry, you forgot number seven:

When you think you're out of room, there's always room to tuck in a miniature, small china or polyantha!!!

And, come to think of it, number 8. If a rose doesn't please you, ruthlessly yank it out, give or throw it away, and plant a real stunner in its place. You'll never regret it.

Ingrid

(who has sent to rose heaven fifty non-performers or non-pleasers)

Just remember ladies, you are dealing with the man who was talked into pick axing away part of his driveway (it took weeks) in order to make a new bed for........you guessed it.......Molineux.

Given the clue above, I'm sure you all know the name of that prime GW Evil Enabler.

hahaa... I just inquired about 4 more roses to see if they are in stock.
You guys are so funny!

I really -do- have space, and this will give them a year to grow... and if I don't like them, I'll know faster whether I won't like them or not.

NOW you're in the swing of things! ;-)

I could swear I posted this here but don't see it. Aimee, have you also tried EuroDesert Roses for availability? See my posts about their open house and also my order (hee, hee, hee...)

I just looked at their site!

but I'm not familiar with like... any of the roses they have. They have some rare things, I guess, right? I'm very curious! I guess I could just email him and ask if he had any suggestions for my area

I started my rose garden here at the new house last year. This is the first year I have ordered roses mail order. My rose garden is far from done..but I am content to work with what I have got and have lots of fun for next year..finishing it..Now I am going to work on finding companion plants..If we try and do it all at once we may plant something we regret

Bummer, Zyperiris. There are NO regrets with roses. We simply move on.

Sherry