Olga didn't tell you that primula has scented leaves. The new leaves, on moist warm days, are scented of Old Spice. And it has those wing thorns. The new thorns are ruby-red and perfect triangles. The setting sun sets the new canes alight with red droplets of color. Olga, there's a primula at the MN Landscape Arboretum that's at least twenty feet wide and ten tall. In bloom, its a-buzz with humming bees. A rose that sings. I love this plant! Lovely pictures I have primula and a new 'Canary Bird' sitting in a pot.

Albas and gallicas do great here, and I'm in a very hot and dry summer area. Low annual rainfall. Damasks do well here too (not surprising as they come from a very hot and dry part of the world). Very little winter chill. I don't know exactly how important this is (among various other contributing factors), but my elevation is higher than some who don't do well with these classes in Southern California and who actually have more winter chill than I do. Elevation being something to consider came to my attention after reading about it in a scientific paper written about damasks in the middle east. Another issue that I've been pondering for a while, is how much cultural practices in rose keeping in hot, dry locations, negatively affect the performance of particularly the albas, gallicas, and damasks. One thought that has occurred to me is that the "baseline" of care that is assumed for most roses in the majority of rose pr that has been given to the public over the years, has used the hybrid tea as the example to follow. So from years of information saturation, what the hybrid tea likes best appears to be the standard of care assumed to be ideal for all classes of roses, pretty much everywhere. Well, it ain't necessarily so that all roses like what hybrid teas do--which is lots of fertilizer and water, frequently applied. Think of other garden plants and consider how much variation there is in what the different ones prefer. For example, salvias. Many of the California native salvias are very drought tolerant and may die or just barely survive much summer water. They also don't care for being fertilized. Others however want a rich, moist soil. My albas, damasks, gallicas (and rugosas) are among my most drought tolerant of roses. Since I started with old garden roses, I never got into the "hybrid tea" mentality, and thus my roses have always been grown with only very light and infrequent feedings (sometimes no fertilizer for *years*), and low water. I didn't know until I started reading these and other forums in the last several years that I couldn't grow these roses! The roses recommended, mainly teas and chinas, have been disasters here. They stand out for wanting much more food and water than I'm accustomed to giving my other roses. Guess over the years I've been doing my own Earthkind trials.;) Josh, I don't know how closely your conditions resemble mine which is a mediterranean climate, but if it were me, and I was considering growing a new class or classes of roses, I'd look at where those roses come from and are happy, and how similar those conditions would be in my garden. Actually I would expect albas and gallicas to do well for me, and if they didn't I'd want to look into what I was doing to change the natural environment here into one they didn't like. I think such changes haven't happened because I'm basically a lazy gardener who just isn't into the effort and expense that would entail. Melissa

I have both but the only Gallica I could call mature is R. Gallica versicolor so I don't know if it's representative of the whole group. I also have Cardinal Richelieu but it's only a couple of years old. Based on that and somewhere around 10 Albas, I'd say the Albas are way better here. RGV is low and scraggly and suckers all over the place - picture a 2' high x 6' diameter bramble patch. It blooms nicely though. Albas are wonderful and perfect and I love them. ;)

Thanks for all your informative advice here... the puzzle for me is that all the famous rosarians and rose gardens, from GS Thomas to Vintage Gardens to Mottisfont, everyone on HMF, all show it as Gallica, yet what you are describing to be as an Alba, reflects I think the rose I am growing, which I am certain will be the same one as they were all talking about.. So why do they insist it's Gallica? if I should upload a photo of my rose I shall put it on the Alba page [ there is one for Alba and Gallica]... perhaps they should merge the two together, but when you buy a rose as a certain type which you sought after, and later you find that most everyone else is describing it some other way, then it comes as a bit of a shock and disappointment... and of course they all know way more about all this than I do... so I still cannot fathom really how they can be content with Gallica when it looks all over an Alba... I feel reluctant to merge with the status quo... I should add that, I bought this rose without checking HMF or any literature about it first, and I got it purely because I wanted what I thought was a classic Alba rose, rare, but Alba, definitely not a Gallica rose, I didn't want one of those... so I was surprised to say the least when looking at HMF to find it shown as a Gallica and that this appears to be the established opinion..