here's one of Lady Hillingdon, they are leafing out well just hard to tell dead from living where they are woody but leafing out!

With teas, I find they leaf out from wood that I would have deemed a dead cane - I dont trim anything off of my teas until it is very obvious the cane is dead.

For me, the dead canes are black, and somewhat shriveled early on.

Your roses look very gorgeous and happy :)

Marleah

This is how a very immature own-root rose plant looks. It could be almost anything at that stage, tho the leaves look "Tea-Like." So, if the label says it is a Tea, I'd have no reason not to believe that it is.

A mature Tea Rose looks like this:

Jeri

This is my Garonne Henreitte Snoy, it really hasn't started to leaf out it is behind everything except SDLM which I hope is still alive...
Sorry about the photo I took it with my tablet..

Hey Jeri what tea is that? Its beautiful!

Thanks everyone for making me feel better! I thought it might just be how they looked, and they were leafing out, just needed ya'll to confirm it for me. These are my first teas, though I think ya'll can tell ! :) Jessica yours looks like mine but bigger, with the barkey instead of green cane thanks for the pictures to, Jeri,and Jessica they really helps. Marleah, thanks for the advice I will keep that in mind always with teas. Thanks everyone!

Yes, yours is normal. Also keep in mind that many of them will throw out canes in all sorts of weird angles, every which way. That is also normal, and if you try to prune teas so that they don't do this, it is impossible, and they will just sulk (or die). Just leave them alone, and let them build up some size, and you will be rewarded by magnificence - they do not respond well to being ordered around, or too strictly controlled - I only prune mine to keep them from eating the paths or the driveway.

Jackie

This is my first over winter with mine so I am a little nervous if our oddly harsh winter had an affect on it lol

I'm not positive what that is. It was just a "landscape" shot. But given the look of the blooms, and the volume, I'd guess it might be 'Mme. Lombard.'

OH, Jackie's right about growth habit.
The other thing young own-root Teas will do is, they grow OUTWARD, and low, sprawley, rather than upright. It looks fairly crummy, actually. And the leaves -- all of that -- will look very different from the mature plant.

I remarked this morning to DH that our 'Mme. Lombard' is now putting on good upright growth -- and so is "Orange Smith," while "Jesse Hildreth" is still sprawely. It's the way they do, and you can't prune them into going up. They'll do that, when they're d*mned good and ready. :-)

Jeri

I always thought JBS was a China, but I see on HMF it might go either way.

Thanks Jackie and Jeri. Thanks for the laugh Jeri

They'll do that, when they're d*mned good and ready. :-)

Love That :) Thanks for all the advice and letting me know more about how to treat them. I'm neverending learning it seems! Ohh and since I started going organic I finally seen my first lady bugs the other day eating aphids! I was so exited, my DH was like ..Well I'm happy for you Laughing at me, but I was happy, I was squshing them while they were eating :))

One of you once described a tea as stretching out on the ground and getting comfortable before it decided to grow upright. I think of that often, particularly when looking at the cemetery's Mme Berkeley, which only now, after about five years, is putting on vertical growth. Our Jesse Hildreth is still sprawling, too, Jeri. Other young teas send up very awkward long canes, and we've discussed on this forum leaving those canes alone and letting the rest of the bush alone. I think of it as a gangly teenage phase.
Anita

A good rule of thumb, particularly if you're just starting out with Teas is, "if in doubt, DO NOT CUT!" Most Teas do not require "pruning" and just as many develop into glorious plants when not pruned. They require the stored nutrients in the old, thick wood and they benefit greatly from the huge foliage mass which not only feeds them properly, but just as importantly, prevents their old, thick canes from sun scalding which can outright kill canes. If you have Pacific Flat Head Apple Borers in your area, sun scald attracts the borers and they WILL kill the plant. Kim

Thanks Anita and Kim for the new useful information! That's more I didn't know! and here I was thinking I had learned so much! I like that sayin you gave me Kim " if in doubt, DO NOT CUT!" Thank's!

We do have those borers, Kim, and we certainly see their damage on our sun scalded canes. In fact (sob), the Belle of Portugal that you gave us just died. It only grew from a single cane, which was stepped on a time or two, and there was a lot of damage from that and the sun - and then the borers struck. We just cut it to the ground in the hopes that there is enough life in the roots for a new cane or two. It was so big and lovely! I got a replacement from Vintage, and Bill, one of our volunteers, has a plant that he has grown from your rose (and which he will propagate for the cemetery if necessary), so we will still have that rose in our collection. I suggested to Bill that he give us the plant that he has but he is NOT GIVING UP THAT PLANT because he loves it so much.. A few volunteers asked if the problem with the plant was water or disease - nope, just physical damage, including sunscald, and the dread borers.
Anita

The baby teas will likely put out new larger canes once in the ground and the original canes will likely die off or you can prune them once you have larger established canes.

I let my teas go for a few years until they start to take shape. Then I usually only take out older scraggly growth (usually from the bottom). If I do need to 'downsize' a tea for whatever reason, I take out whole canes from the base, I don't cut back to a leaf bud. That usually results in ugly growth.

Thanks buford that's good information to know should it need that, Thanks!

Alana, I have so learned to ignore the wacky, gawkiness of baby Teas that I hardly look at them at all (since I know they're watered and fed). I used to stress over every little odd looking twig and lopsided growth, but I heeded the advice from this forum and forced myself to look the other way when walking by them because they do look embarrassing at times. Just love them tenderly and deeply with food and compost and mulch and water, and they will grow into what they were meant to be - eventually.

Make sure your babies don't dry out in the heat. Every other day hand-watering was NOT enough in their first summer for me in my sandy garden. They mostly defoliated and looked awful. I foolishly yanked some before I realized that lack of water was the problem and daily water would make a huge difference in sand. They were tough and didn't die, just went a little dormant. Then with more water they leafed out and looked beautiful - though still young and gawky. You have to learn to enjoy the moment with young Tea roses and remember that one day your ugly duckling WILL be a beautiful swan. I wrote at length on this subject in the link below which also has photos.

Enjoy your Tea babies!!

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: A cautionary tea tale

My Mme. Lombard has one thick, sturdy cane which juts out to the side, quite low. I look forward to one day cuting that off, but that will have to wait until she has equally hefty upright growth.

Jeri

I just pruned/cleaned up an old Tea in the Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond, VA. Several of the canes were 3" in diameter. One was about 6' long and shot out about 10" above the ground, then divided into other smaller 1-2" canes. Another, equally as long and thick, had a slightly skyward trajectory. There was only one reasonably upright cane.

Thank you so much for this timely thread. I was so worried about my Mme Berkeley and Clementina that I planted last year. I cannot wait for them to grow out of this scraggly phase!

I was thinking about this, this morning when we went out to walk dogs, and I passed "Jesse Hildreth."

Anita, at the Fall Seminar, Darrell Schramm and I took off with Fred, in the middle of a tour, and romped over to have a look at the Abbott & Burns rose. From there, we segued to the plot where "Jesse Hildreth" is sprawling, near 'Devoniensis.'

Fred remarked, in the midst of our musing over than nice mystery, that any attempt to figure out what Jesse IS will have to wait until the young plants are reasonably mature.

Because, he reminded me, not ONLY does the habit of the rose change, but 'most everything else changes along with it. The character of leaves, canes, blooms, ALL of it, will differ in some respects from the little plants, we see now.

And while there is the mother plant (unless it is gone) the only people who have really observed that are Clay and I, and Jill Perry, and the Kernel.

Thus -- Tea Roses ALWAYS give us something new to enjoy.

Jeri

There is so much valuable info on this forum. I think I inhibited the growth on one of my MariePavie plants by cutting out young twiggy growth. Last year I recd two MPs from vintage. after they grew a bit in one gallon pots, I trimmed some twiggy growth that I thought was getting in the way of newer robust growth from ONE plant. The other I left alone. After I planted both this winter, the MP I left alone has a big cane coming out like Kim's pic of CduC. The one I trimmed has no new canes. I definitely learned something.

Anne

Thanks Sherry! I love how you write, you should do a book! Thanks for all that great needed advice and the link .. LOVED IT! Glad I was able to help a fellow rose lover Mountainrose! Thanks to everyone who responded everything has helped and will keep this thread to look back on in case of any needed help!

Sherry, your blog about tea rose growth, in your case Duchesse de Brabant in particular, is priceless. The pictures really tell the story, and, I have to confess, I'm glad I'm not the only one who gave up too soon on some of my roses. What amazes me about your DdB, and others I've seen here, is how much more beautiful yours is because it has so many more petals than mine did. I tried this rose twice but it just couldn't stand the heat, unlike my other teas. I think I would try again if the blooms looked like yours.

Ingrid

That's much of the confusion, catspa. We're all so used to the bolt, upright HT growth, which is a product of the Hybrid Perpetual influence, when we see how Chinas and Teas generate their mounds of growth, we're lost, confused and frightened SOMETHING is awfully wrong. But, it's just what they DO. I cringe thinking how many wonderful old Teas and Chinas have been butchered to death because the person holding the chainsaw had no idea.

There is a small public garden in an historic home site here in this valley. A dear friend and her husband took on the restoration of that garden as their retirement project. There were massive old Teas which had been there for decades as well as quite a few they added. The couple would spend fall through spring here with summers in their Colorado cabin. The local rose society contacted "Parks and Wreck" with the request to hold their annual pruning demonstration in that garden. They "helped". Imagine a six by six foot Rosette Delizy "exhibition pruned" as you would a Veteran's Honor to produce three, ten inch flowers. The bush never recovered its former glory. Some actually died outright.

It can be quite surprising discovering how much more heat tolerant these things become once they mature. A foot tall plant has roots about that long and they suffer from temperatures drastically. Let it become a six foot mound and not only is the ground shaded by its mass, providing it insulation from reflected heat and the roots from hot soil, but the whole plant absorbs the heat, dissipating it throughout the mass, permitting the flowers the protection they require not to fry. A six foot plant has roots much deeper into the cool, damp soil with a much larger root mass to take up the water the plant needs. They eventually become quite "thrifty", which is what has helped them survive in many abandoned and neglected spots. Kim

This post was edited by roseseek on Tue, Apr 9, 13 at 14:29

This thread just keeps getting better!

Thanks Kim -- that's a good description.

And that's why I keep saying that Teas and Chinas ARE thrifty and trouble free -- ONCE THEY MATURE.

They are roses, I suppose, that you plant while you are young and strong enough to dig holes, and enjoy lazily when you are older, and stiffer. :-)

Jeri

Thanks Kim- Ditto what Jeri said.

Jeri- I'm young and stiff 'reaken I can still enjoy? :P

Thanks everyone I've really enjoyed reading all your personnel experiences. Mountainrose is right, this thread does keep getting better!

Oh, gosh, I just reread the "Tea" blog post with stinging tears in my eyes at the end, but the emotion in it was well spent since it is teaching new rosarians who are eager to learn. The pain was not wasted. The mistakes had a purpose. Keeping a journal with photos is like a bank account with 1000% interest. Gee, I feel good - like I saved the world, like my life's purpose has been discovered. Many thanks for reading.

Sherry

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...

Young and stiff? Hire a big guy with a shovel???

Jeri

Seriously, tho.
I think there's a lot to be said for roses that demand less work on your part as they mature.

If you've selected the right ones (and of course, you'll make some mistakes) they should "do" for you for many decades, and just grow lovelier.

And in the "brave new world" ahead of us (at least for those in the dry SW) roses that demand less water as mature plants are also, I think, really desirable.

LOL Sherry I was thisclose to SPing my DdB. For some reason I thought she was supposed to be one of the smaller teas. I planted her right at the bottom step of my front porch, so you see her going in and out. It's a somewhat narrow spot, made more so by the evergreen shrubs that also grow next to that spot. Well you can imagine the weirdly growth coming out of a young tea, going this way and that and NEVER in the way I needed or wanted it to grow for that spot. It tried to grow up the porch steps and across the front walk, but never in the big gaping hole on the other side. And it's a thrip magnet.

But this year I was able to prune out all the older misdirected canes from the base. I'm also ready to do battle with the thrips this year. DdB is such a pretty delicate bloom, I don't want to give up on her.

Yeah, Buford, mine was a thrips magnet, too.

I want to know how the thrips know that a tiny green bud is going to be a light colored flower. Then again i see them in dark pink and red flowers, too. I guess that's why they're called flower thrips. So try not to hold it against DdB (like I did). The thrips brutalize Clotilde Soupert - and now Belinda's Dream, too - and I still love Clotilde. The girl can do no wrong in my book.

Sherry

P.S. You made me cringe when you said you cut on her. Maybe better to move her. :))

Here is a link that might be useful: If only sweat were irrigation...