I would recomend getting a home weather station with extra sensors.
Lacrosse is one of the least expensive with the basic system being about $170, and the pc software runs about $40 but I do not know what the extra sensors cost or how many sensors you can add.

Davis Instruments are in the high end, great if cost is not a problem, with the base system starting around $400, you can get an add on box that can have up to 8 temp/humidity sensors for about $200, and then each probe runs about $100.
But the Davis can also have U/V monitors, Soil moisture/temp, Leaf wetness and many other sensors.

In the Middle would be the Oregon Scientific WMR968, the main unit runs about $270, the software and cable for your pc runs about $30. Extra Temp/Humidity sensors run about $25. One very nice thing is that the extra sensors can be read at the sensor, at the base station, or at the PC.

They also have a floating temperature probe, if you had a Pond or Hydroponics for about $40
But it can only take 3 extra sensors

I have a Davis Instruments, with one extra sensor for the greenhouse. If I had a chance for a Do-over, I would go with the Oregon Scientific because of the price of the additional sensors.

The web site www.ambientweather.com has a large selection of instruments and comparisons.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ambient Weather

1-wire is good if you want cheap extensibility. Each additional sensor costs $2 plus some wire (you can use cat5 offcuts, or even two core flex).

I bought an Oregon Scientific WMR968 on ePay for $190 plus shipping. Extra sensors with a wire probe and thermistor are $24 and you can use up to three in addition to the THB sensor provided. Here is a link to the page about my installation.

Here is a link that might be useful: Weather Station

I use the Procom system from Micro grow, and have been very pleased with the data and control quality. You can put in a wide variety of sensors, both inside and outside the greenhouse, and control the opening of vents, heaters, circulation fans, CO2 generators, foggers, etc. based on specified criteria. The pc software has worked great for four years, with no installation or use difficulties. You can log all the data as often as every 15 seconds, plot it for a specified time period, or review the data in table format. Micro Grow makes a variety of similar systems: high end, but they do the job, and are reliable.
Renais

Here is a link that might be useful: Micro Grow

Thanks to jimmydo2 and others for the good feedback. Question for nathanhurst; What is one wire? Can you post a URL or something? I would like more info. And to renais; I went to the web site for Micro Grow. The on line info was not as forthright as I would have hoped. I think I am going to have to call them for more details. It appears that they can control 3rd party equipment like heaters, misters, etc. That would be good. Thanks for the tip. I take it the software they have runs under Windows? Do you have a PC dedicated for it?

1-wire is more a standard than a specific example. Most of the chips are made by maxim-ic, but they are very cheap to by and easy to wire up. (You only have 2 wires to wire up)

Google says: http://www.google.com/search?q=1-wire&ie=UTF8

Wikipedia says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Wire

And an example weather monitoring kit is: http://www.aagelectronica.com/aag/index.html

You do need a master to record the information. This can be a PC or a custom micro. I am not aware of any commercially available weather loggers using 1-wire without a PC, but I know two people who have built their own systems using easy to program micros such as the picaxe.

I would use a PC, although it doesn't need to be dedicated. All our computing is done with 1 PC which provides internet connection, weather monitoring, greenhouse control etc.

The Procom does control whatever third party equipment you wish. They produce a relay box for direct control of equipment like circulation fans or misters, or use the control signals put out by the Procom as the thermostat input for things like heaters. The software does work under Windows, and I have it on a computer that is used for a variety of other things as well. There is no need to dedicate a computer to this task. I find it rather fun to get up in the morning, go to the computer, and see all the outside weather details, inside greenhouse conditions, and to look at the graphs of how things went in the night. For instance, when I add new materials to my rather large worm bin in the greenhouse, I can expect to see morning CO2 levels to begin to rise over what they normally are as the new materials decompose. If it has been a windy night, it is fun to see how fast the wind was blowing. Also note that the Procom is capable of fairly sophisticated control. For instance, you could specify that when solar radiation intensity is greater than 400 W/m2, and wind speed is less than 12 mph, it is more than two hours to sunset, outside temperature is greater than 76 degrees, turn on misters for 3 minutes, or until humidity rises to 60%. The system is pretty straightforward to program, and built with the ruggedness needed for a commercial operation.
Renais

Ok, there is a 1-wire self-contained system fully assembled available, I'm sorely tempted to get one:
http://owfs.sourceforge.net/WRT54G.html

You'd need to be knowledgable about computers to use it though.

renais....

I am going to call Micro Grow Monday and see what they say.

It looks like the software officially runs under Win 3.1, 95, 98, and NT. I am sure it will run under XP. But it appears that a version optimized for XP has not been released yet. I am guessing you are running GrowLink under XP? About how long have you been using this software? Have any updates been released since you installed it? Does it appear to work fine?

So, the high end hardware controller box is called the GrowMaster? Is this the hardware you have?

If I wanted to bring up a basic system and add to it as I build up my greenhouse, can I buy the GrowMaster, a few temperature/humidly probes, and the GrowLink software?

Did you go with MicroGrow's Weather Master or Weatherstat, or did you interface your hardware to 3rd party weather hardware?

Are you taking wireless to your sensors, fans, heat, etc? Or did you run wire from the GrowMaster?

Sorry for the many questions. But I love this stuff!

jack

nathanhurst....

Are you running some software to talk to your 1-Wire set up? If so, which software is it? Thanks for the many links. I am still reading.

jack

You might want to check out this company too. They have monitoring and control solutions. IMHO, when building a control solution based on a PC, make sure you provide for non-PC based backup systems too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Growtronix

mraroid: I use one wire file system. There are nice gui systems out there for doing graphs and whatnot though, I just prefer the flexibility that a file system appraoch gives.

Before that I used digitemp.

Well, I called Micro Grow today. I knew it was going to be *HIGH*. But the hardware box to start was just under $2,000.00 and the software (not needed to control everyting) was well over $1,500.00. Tem/Humidity probe $395. Yikes!

I am back looking over the market again. I am liking what I see from Growtronix (thanks cottagefarmer!).

I will keep looking. Thanks to all for the many tips and URLs!

mraroid

I would then recomend the Davis Vantage Pro II, or Pro II Plus .
The Plus is the same as the standard, but it also includes solar radiation and UV sensors, with the standard unit.

These are available Wireless or Cabled (I would recomend wireless).

The Sensor Package is solar powered with Battery back up.

http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/stations.asp

The Retail pricing on these base packages ranges from 600-1200, but you can find it online for 350-850 depending on options.

Addtional Temp/Humidity stations run about $200 a piece
Additional Temp only Stations run at $175

You can add up to 7 additional sensors to this unit.

The Connector to your computer plus software, runs about $120
But you can see that fully loaded you will be looking about $2500 with 8 temperature/humidity locations.

The Inexpensive Method would be the Oregon Scientific for about $425, but this would only let you monitors 4 outside temps, and I figure you would want to use one of these to monitor outside temp.

These do use User adjustable transmission channels, so you could feasibly by two of these complete for Under $900.

I have been using my Davis for over 4 years. I do not have a dedicated PC for it, the program just runs in the background on my computer. Because the stations have a storage buffer, you do not need to have your PC Running all the time.

I keep my PC Running all the time because I transmit my Data to several different Amature weather Networks, Including APRS, and WeatherUnderground. I found out that many people online check my weather multiple times per day. I can get more hits online by searcing for my weather staion ID, or location, than I can for searching for myself. My weatherstaion ID is KCAVICTO3, My APRS ID is CW1614. My station description is Nisqualli and 7th

Golly, 1-wire is a bargain then. I figured these greenhouse controllers would be in the $200 complete range. So an open source greenhouse controller project would be useful then?

(I wish I had a greenhouse currently so I could write some code - just itching to play with VPD optimisation)

Hmm, I would like to see some more info on the 1-wire. I am familiar with 2-wire, but that is primarily a computer networking technology that uses existing home wiring. I just figured by the time you throw togethor 8 digital temperature measuring devices, something to collect and store the data, something to wirelesly transmit the data, something to receive the data on the computer end, and feed the data to the computer. That the costs would be building up by then. The software end is not a problem do me, I would feed the data to a SQL database.

I could probably hack a wireless thermomemter, but I do not know whats going to happen when you have the 8 thermometers trying to transmit at the same time.

But with one of the Packages you also have windspeed, Rain rate, rain totals, Humidity, inside and out, Barometric pressure, And weather forcasting. And with some you also have, solar radiation, and Ultra-vilot levels.

Admitedly, if I was just going to have one temp probe, I could probably get a $20 wireless thermometer, and hack the reciever to input the data into a USB port on my computer, but for all the other features, I think the price of the home weatherstations are very reasonable.

Pehrpas I am wrong, I do not know much about the 1-wire, it sounds a lot like X10, but that is more of an automation thing, turning on lights, fans, sprinklers when needed, etc.

I've used 1-wire in the past for logging temperatures in every room (and various other places like the heating system plenum). You can buy enough to get you going (with say 20 temp measurements) for about $100. If you want to measure humidity there are kits using commercial humidity sensors, but I wonder whether a simple wet-dry system might be cheaper and more robust (I've had trouble with the SHT12 humidity sensor dying).

Once you are reliably recording temperatures you'll start thinking about using the computer to optimise growth conditions - what was what I was referring to. If you just want to record temperatures then digitemp and 1-wire is a very cheap solution.

It all very much depends on what the goal is.

Wow, ok, cool, where can I get this 1-wire Equipment?

WOW, I found http://www.hobby-boards.com they seem to have just about everything Jack would need. Nathan is right, if you just want to do Temperature, this looks like the way to go,

I was a bit surprised though, some of the more exotic sensors are a bit pricey, at 60 bucks for a barometer, 45 for a Humidity Sensor. The Rain Guage and the Wind speed guage are about 75 a peice. (Maybe I can find them elsewhere for less, I will have to check ebay.) I wonder if I could rig my existing sensors up, my dad has an old weather station that he is not using any more, perhaps I could rig up his stuff.

But at $18 a piece for the temperature sensors and $45 for the 6 Channel Hub Kit, This does seem like the Route to go.

This site does not Have the solar panels or the wireless transmiters, but hey this is the first site I have tried, I am sure I can find the other stuff on another site, or I can rig something up.

This will be great, It looks like I can import the data straight to SQL, and then write my own reports.

I even saw a Buffer somewhere on the site (I can not find it right now ), so that the computer does not have to be on 24x7

I noticed that the Hubs have RJ45 connectors on them, Nathan do you know if the 1-wire technology is compatible with the 802.11 b or g Standards? I know that the older (Specificaly mine), Davis stations transmit on the 2.4 Gigahertch range, so I am thinking I could hook the six wire Hub right up to a Wireless Access Point, and then set up my Laptop or Desktop with an additionaly WAP and use an adhoc network to receive the data. We have 11 channels in the US for 802.11 so I should not have a conflict with my wireless computer network.

I found some other neat stuff here as well, Including a Moisture sensor($5) and a 4 channel relay ($50), so I could have the computer water when the soil gets dry, turn on the Misters when the Humidity gets low, and turn on the Fan, and Open the Vents when it gets hot. At the Prices for the SOlar powered Vent openers and Thermostat controlled Fans, this would be a great way to go.

I gotta get the wireless working, cause If I can get this working with a Pair of 802.11b WAP's (I know we do not need the speed of G or A), then I could probably add the Wireless for just Under $100. OK Yall I will keep you updated on my Trials and Tribulations with the WAP's, (of Course I have to wait till I order a Probe and Hub to test it with :)

OK, OUCH, when I was getting ready to submit this message, I found a site selling Wireless transmiters and receivers for 1-wire, but at $250 for the Host, and $350 for the Server, I think I really need to get the WAP working

Here is a link that might be useful: Hobby Boards

1-Wire is not compatible with Wireless Ethernet (ieee 802.11b). The transmission goes over a single pair of wires which are not balanced, at approx. 5 volt logic levels and a fairly low data rate (19.2 KBaud, I believe, although there is a "fast" version that works around 200KBaud, being arbitrated by the bus master based on whether slave devices are consuming power from the active pullups on the network). The method is referred to as a bi-directional open-drain interface. The bus master supervises all transmissions and slave devices do not speak unless the bus master allows it. The transmission format is a proprietary format and does not use packets as the Ethernet would. Maxim suggest cabling using Cat 5 network cable but only one pair of wires is used for the basic interface. Another pair is sometimes used to supply external power to sensors.

In order to interface an Ethernet connection with a 1-wire network, you would first need to convert to a serial format such as RS232 or USB, get the info into a computer or configurable router (the OWS approach, where an internal Java program converts to the Ethernet stack) and then format the data so that it is compatible with the Ethernet protocol. One nice thing about 1-wire, if you are going to build a "1-wire" wireless link, is that all the data and addressing information is sent as one bit stream. Bidirectional means, though, that you are going to have to use wireless "transceivers" as opposed to the one-way wireless links found in the common wireless thermometers. The transceivers are correspondingly more expensive, of course, going in the range of about $100 per pair for the 433 MHz band with 300 meter range or about $50 a pair for the 2.4 GHz band with about 100 meter range. The transceivers will also need to pay attention to "channels" so that the bus master can perform its supervisory role on a per-device basis. Only one remote transmitter can respond to each "existence" request from the bus master.

I found another nice store, This is one is laid out a little better, so the prices are probably higher...
http://www.aagelectronica.com/

Their focus is on 1-wire weather instruments.
They even have a Kit to convert Most rain Guage Buckets (that use the see-saw method of measurement)to work with 1-wire for $30
I just found out that the guy who has the weather station about 5 miles down the street from me is running 1-wire.

I also fount out there is a Hack for the Linksys wrt54g router, to add two serial ports for 1-wire. There is another hack for the router, (by changing the firmware to a Open source firmware), that allows you to make the router just be a WAP.

These routers can be purchased for about $40

http://owfs.sourceforge.net/WRT54G.html

Maybe you can help me, when I saw this site:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/ibuttons/index.cfm

I would have sworn the the iButton was a Joke, but I keep seeing them on the websites for 1-wire, at the price ther asking $2 what is it, a counter?

Here is a link that might be useful: Linksys Mods

iButtons are EPROMS containing unique device codes packaged in a two terminal stainless steel cases similar to lithium or mercury batteries that can be read as 1-Wire devices and serve as a key, for example if you wanted to access and activate your house front door lock electronically. Its in keeping with the "home automation" functions that a lot of the 1-Wire devices are designed to provide.

cottagefarmer has basically said what I would say. There are cheap bus masters for 1-wire which talk serial or USB. not sure about serial (due to timing), but certainly a wireless USB extender would work with the 9040(?) USB device.

I know someone who doesn't know much about programming or anything, but built a 1-wire contorller using a microcontroller that you program in basic. It took him about a day to work it all out. Think about it anyway.

Folks...

I looked at one web site for 1 Wire solutions. They did coat (for a little extra money) the electronics in probes to help keep the water out. But said it was *not* ment for a wet enviroment. I know what the jack & plug of a RJ11C looks like (I worked for the telephone co for about 30 years). And I question it's life span in a tropical greenhouse with a fog machine.

Any water tight probes for wet areas?

mraroid

The usual solution is to solder the wires to the leads, coat the lot in epoxy glue and heat shrink around that to force the epoxy into the cracks. Takes about 30 seconds if you have the bits on hand.

I wouldn't buy the rj45 solutions, I'd just get a bag of ds1822s from maxim and solder them myself. You can get them for about $2 each. That's right, $2 a sensor (plus maybe 50c more for the glue and heatshrink). Run the leads back to a weatherproof box.

Thanks Nathanhurst. That opens up a lot more doors for me.

While checking today, I found another (free!) software package that runs under XP for logging temp and other probs. The interface looks clean and well built. The link is below. It is called Mr Soft:

Here is a link that might be useful: Free XP software for temp and other monitoring

Folks....

It looks like the short list of 1 Wire solutions would be:

1) Electronica (Home of 1 Wire)Also called aggelectronica
http://www.aagelectronica.com/aag/index.html

2) Growtronix (Plug & Play grow room devices)
http://www.growtronix.com/store/index.php?main_page=index

I am going to start reading, reading and reading. Can anyone post any other places that would be good to check out?

Thanks to all for the much needed info.

mraroid

PS: I guess this forum software will not let us post more than one hyperlink per message? What a pain that is. I have about 8 URLs I would like to post for comment.

I did notice at all of the places that I found that provide 1-wire to serial or USB converters, no one listed having any stock. The ds2890 chip is apparently in short supply. I found some, though . . . :)

You can just enter html into your message to post a link. Enter

and you will get:

Click Here

The same goes for images. They need to be hosted somewhere else though. Enter

and you get:

{{gwi:293344}}

Images should be less than about 500 pixels wide or it really messes with the page formating. There should be no extra spaces in the first few characters of the beginning html tag. Apparently something searches for these and if they aren't formatted correctly, renders them as text.

I used the Davis Vantage Pro solution. I wanted weather data for my garden as well as my greenhouse. I also wanted an easy way to publish my data on the web so that I could check it from work. I have more than once called home and asked my wife to open the greenhouse door because it was overheating. There is an open source Linux/BSD set of software named wview that talks to the Davis data logger. Check out wview home. The project is very active. Recently the station portion of the software has been abstracted so that it can be extended to weather stations other than the Davis Vantage Pro. Two have been added since then. The software consists of several daemons one of which is an alarm that can be set up to pass data to just about anything you care to interface. I have thought of building a greenhouse controller to interface but haven't gotten that far yet. The software can be configured to dump all of the data to a SQL database if desired. Anyway take a look and see if this will work into your plans. The link below is my Davis weather station. I have added a solar radiation sensor and a soil moisture sensor to the station. Accurate soil moisture requires soil temperature so this box has inputs for 4 temp probes and 4 soil moisture sensors. I didn't add the soil moisture sensors and just use it to add 4 temp sensors to the station. 1 of them is the temp in the greenhouse, 1 is the temp of the soil on my seed starting mat, 1 is the water mass (I just dropped the sensor in an open water bottle) and one is buried in the garden soil outside the greenhouse. I am running this site on an old 350 mghz Pentium which also serves up lots of other stuff.

Here is a link that might be useful: My Weather Station

I'm way behind the ball on this thread, but I have a WMR-968 used for general weather information as well as grow area temperature. I use a program called Weatherdisplay to chart the data.

The WMR-968 allows for up to 3 extra sensors, I believe. They are available for about $20-25 for the thermo-hygro units.

D.

Been lurking here and if i understood a word of it i would probably be amazed at what you guys are sharing, but since i am just now feeling confident enought to try setting the time on my VCR.... well, this is a bit above me.

Seriously, this info will be greatly useful when i get my GH set up this summer. Not sure i will need to go so far as to measure the temps in my heating plenum But i do want to get some general data. You guys have got my mind whirling in new directions and i will put the blame squarely on your shoulders when the wife asks why i haven't finished the Spring cleaning in mid-July.

I have an old 386 down in the cellar (win 3.1?) That has VB 3.0 and MS access on it and i thought this would be enough to do what i need but i think now i should fill it with dirt and plant something in it.

So thanks for the posts and keep those URLs flowing! At some point i will need to go through them and become fluent in GGS (Greenhouse Geek Speak)

Thanks!
Poppa

Poppa...

This thread has a wealth of knowledge in it (none posted by me). Someone needs to build a web page and post some links and short notes on this stuff. Like I don't have hours in my day as it is, maybe I will. I just have no time.....

jack

For old farts like me who put in CAT5 all over the house long before WI-FI:

Temperature, hunmidity, web server, all in one:

jack

Here is a link that might be useful: Omega's new toy

I have made a prototype of a 1-wire host and a single temperature sensor. Here is a picture of the breadboard. The chips on the left are the temperature sensor, the ones on the right the 1-wire host interface. The cable goes to a computer serial port.

{{gwi:293345}}

After installing the 1-wire drivers for Windows from Maxim/Dallas, I was able to install the Arne Henriksen Weather Server software. The display for the temperature sensor is shown here. The evaluation version leaves something to be desired in terms of manipulating the graphs. Perhaps this is better in the "for money" version.

{{gwi:293346}}

Now to "grow" some printed circuit boards . . .

There are plenty of one-wire drivers out there. keep looking. I use OWFS, but surely there is something decent for legacy systems.