Alternate carbon source?;too much nitrogen

17 years ago

Hello all. I have a compost pile composed of too much nitrogen. I mix in grass clippings, vegetable and fruit scraps ( I am a caterer), egg shells, and seaweed ( I live close to the beach). There aren't any decidous trees in my neighborhood here( Long Beach, Ca.) to provide any brown matter. can anyone suggest an alternate source? Would shredded newspaper work? I do also include paper towels when I think of it, and the paper egg cartons, again, when I think of it. thank you, God Bless! Daniel

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Comments (10)

terran
17 years ago
Hi Daniel,

Are you having any particular problem with the pile other than the idea that there are too many greens? I usually compost whatever I have on hand and don't worry about it. When I compost only ice plant, for example, the pile just heats to 160 degrees F. over night, and stays at that temperature for days. It's quick compost without a lot of fuss.

Usually, there are feed stores nearby most everywhere in CA. If you really want to, I suppose you could buy straw.

Terran
jean001
17 years ago
Compost is compost. But if you're convinced yours is "too strong" -- it's not -- use smaller amounts.
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Wonderpets, I am so glad you are finding such pleasure and satisfaction with gardening. Me too! I hope you will soon find the same satisfaction with composting. Don't make it complicated. You are ready to start now. You don't need to read another book, altho feel free to do so, of course. I read everything I can get my hands on about gardening. I love to go to the library and check out my limit of books and I have learned quite a bit along the way. I was the one who said something about wet/dry in another post, I think. That was just to give you an easy way to figure if something was likely a higher nitrogen-content material, or a higher carbon-content material. I still think my analogy stands. The wet coffee grounds and filter, the vegetable scarps, the old slimy lettuce leaves - these are all "wet" and would go towards nitrogen or greens. Shredded paper, twigs, fall leaves - these are all "dry" and would go towards carbon or browns. Just like someone said, plant material will have some of each but will be predominantly carbon or nitrogen as far as composting is concerned. You can just go ahead and start composting anything that you already have. The only time my compost really got slimy is when I used fresh and somewhat wet grass clippings that my neighbor had, and he gets his lawn treated and fertilized so it is very lush. I won't do that again. My grass clippings are not so lush, and not a problem. Also if I have watermelon rinds or melon rinds with some of the fruit still on it, I will see flies. I try to pour my shredded paper from the shredder over that, or my grass clippings, or some dirt if you have it. In addition to the very useful saying "IACBTC," here's another one: "Just Do It!" (I think I got that from NIKE shoes???). Anyway, go ahead and start. Nothing drastic should happen, and you can refine your system as you get more experience and read more. Have fun!
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Whoa. This is what happens when we let well educated people post on worm poop boards. I feel like Lois Lane when she found out who Clark Kent really was. Now you have me all excited. Sorta took off the glasses there sbryce. If we are talking about the "structure of the atoms" that make up vermicastings can I beg a penny for your thoughts on the "Mucus type substance coated on each particle that increases aeration in the soil provides excellent water retention properties and improves the drainage in heavy soils." *1 I think I remember chuckiebtoo once or many times posting something different but in essence similar to "Earthworms excreta (vermicast) is a nutritive ‘organic fertilizer’ rich in humus, NKP, micronutrients, beneficial soil microbes - ‘nitrogen-fixing and phosphate solubilizing bacteria’ and ‘actinomycets’ and growth hormones ‘auxins’, ‘gibberlins’ and ‘cytokinins’. Both earthworms and its vermicast and body liquid (vermiwash) are scientifically proving as both ‘growth promoters and protectors’ for crop plants." *2 and "As earthworms are working their way through the top soil they mix humus and mineral particles. They are turning our soils into a sponge-like structure with enormous numbers of small, medium, and slightly larger burrows and pores. This worm created ‘sponge’ stores water, nutrients and air for the plants and other microorganisms to grow. Scientist call this the rhizosphere, where water, nutrient, and air are exchanged between plant roots, microorganism, fungi, clay minerals, groundwater, and the atmosphere." also *2. Plus "Earthworms have a crop and gizzard just like birds where the mix of food is ground down to very small fractions. Bacteria and antibiotics in the worms intestinal tract destroy pathogens, introduce enzymes (which makes the nutrients plant available), produce plant growth promotors, and much more. By now earthworms have created a valuable mix of nutrients, humus, enzymes, plant hormones, bacteria, and fungi while passing through an intestinal passage of only 5 cm. Before the mix is excreted, the ‘casting’ is finally coated with a mucus so it becomes a strong humus-soil aggregate." three for the cost of one *2. Should we be trying to retain this aspect and not make worm muck? Should we all be working towards individual "puffs" of vermicastings? Is there something in the atoms that speaks to this? I think this coating texture I am looking for in vermicastings is on a molecular or a bit bigger level an advantage to plants. But I do not know why. Maybe I do not need to in order to make nice vermicompost? For chuckiebtoo's excellent photo of intact vermicastings which look like coffee grounds or cigarette tobacco: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/verm/msg041310533109.html?1 *1 is: http://betuco.be/compost/Vermicast%20Specifications.pdf *2 is: http://www.ecocast.co.nz/vermicast If the gods are with me and my fingers do not accidentally hit delete and the solar flare does not eat my post I will be a happy vermicomposter.
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bpgreen
17 years ago
I don't think it's a matter of the resulting compost being too strong. It's more a matter of the compost stinking while composting.

Shredded paper, sawdust, cardboard are all sources of browns that are often overlooked.
danbear
Original Author
17 years ago
Terran and Jean001, thank you for writing. Yes, I know compost is compost, but last years pile( composed of the same elements) gave me beautiful, lush foliage, but few, if any, flowers. Is is my understanding that this is due to a high nitrogen content..... It is good for my non flowering shrubs, but my flower and vegetable garden is my concern. Again, thank you for taking the time to write. Daniel
terran
17 years ago
Hi Daniel,

Anionic fertilizers also create vegetative growth. I had that problem when I gardened in Denver, Co; the virgin soil was high calcium and anionic. Tomato plants would grow like everything but hardly produce tomatoes.

If excess nitrogen is the problem and you can't find enough browns to add to the pile to alleviate that situation, the addition of dolomitic limestone will release N. More correctly, the magnesium in that form of limestone effects the release. For every pound of Magnesium, one pound of N is released.

Terran
jean001
17 years ago
It was said: "... the addition of dolomitic limestone..."

Please DON'T use limestone of any sort in your garden.

No soil in and around Long Beach, CA, can make use of that stuff. It will push your currently near neutral pH into a disaster zone for your plants.

Jean
who gardened in Long Beach, CA, for 30-some years.
terran
17 years ago
Calcium is the number one nutrient by weight required to grow healthy produce. It seems to me that people are too freaked out about pH especially since the usual materials used to 'correct' the situation are far more deleterious.

Yes. If there is already too much Ca do not add more, but I doubt that is likely even with the addition of eggshells to the compost that was mentioned.

Daniel, I had a thought that the seaweed might be the reason that there is more vegetative growth than flowers, but it is just a thought since it has been awhile since I've done any reading on the subject of seaweed.

Terran
Kimmsr
17 years ago
So Danbear when was the last time you had a good, reliable soil test done? Your problme last year may not be as simple as too much Nitrogen as a lack of something else adn the only way to grow strong, healthy plants is with good, healthy soil and a soil test is the only way to know if your soil is close to being nutrient balanced, unless you want to pay a lot more for plant tissue tests.
pablo_nh
17 years ago
"Calcium is the number one nutrient by weight required to grow healthy produce."

It's rarely lacking enough to cause an issue. BER, for example is caused by improper watering which leads to a Ca problem in the fruit- and very rarely is it an issue with Ca levels in the soil.
terran
17 years ago
Kimmsr is right if you want to get a better indication of what is happening. What kind of soil test, though?

Please see http://www.aglabs.com/soil_testing.html

The Morgan extract indicates ... "Nutrients that are biologically active. This test closely relates to the visual symptoms plants display. Plants may be grown directly above limestone bed but show a calcium deficiency. The Morgan test picks this up and shows a low reading of biologically (available) calcium even though there is plenty of calcium in the soil."

The bunny images are great Pablo.

So, Daniel were you able to find a source of 'browns'?

Terran

Here is a link that might be useful: Types of soil tests

Alternate carbon source?;too much nitrogen

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