need guidance on carbon/nitrogen

14 years ago

I am only three months along, and find myself a bit confused over what constitutes carbon, and what makes up the nitrogen component of the bin.

I think it's something like this:

nitrogen: vegetable matter, kitchen waste, grass clippings, etc.

carbon: dried leaf litter, newspaper shreddings.

What would be a good ratio here? I have placed a gallon of leaf litter, and over a gallon of newspaper shreddings in two helpings since I set up my bin, and have been feeding steadily if with small increases kitchen waste to my 3 ounces + worms, on a weekly basis. I am now up to about a cup every two weeks, by the way, and I believe I have increased my squirm by half again so far. (From forty+ to over 70+).

But I have discovered the worms really like the newspaper/leaf litter, and most of it is gone, I would have expected less to have been converted to worm castings with the regular feeding. Am I not feeding enough kitchen waste? or do they just like the leaves and newspaper a whole lot?

Anyone? Would greatly appreciate anyone's suggestions on this. I don't want to add too much paper/leaves yet as I want the worms to increase, and to do this they need to find each other. Any more bedding and I am afraid it might take a week to get one end of the bin to the other!

Thanks in advance,

Gina

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

gmw1
Original Author
14 years ago
forgot to mention they are EF's and indoors on the back porch, they get lots of indirect lighting and keep fairly warm where they are. I think that's one reason I am still getting worm squirm increase....although I haven't learned how to identify worm capsules, yet, I know they are in there, when I buried the food this week I found lots of 1" long newbies. Yay!!!!
Gina
sbryce_gw
14 years ago
What you are doing now sounds just right.

Yes, you have identified the browns and greens.

As for ratios, what you are doing is perfect. Bed the worms with lots of high carbon material, and add high nitrogen material as it is eaten.

The worms will eat anything that is decomposing in the bin. That includes the bedding. If you are doing everything right, the bedding will disappear along with the food. If most of the bedding is being converted to castings, you might want to add a little more bedding. We call them bedding and food, but really, both are both.

The worms won't have any trouble finding each other, since they are all attracted to whatever portion of the bin has the most decomposition going on. And they can move pretty fast. I have put horse manure in my bin (my worms' favorite food) and found it loaded with worms within an hour.

Bottom line: add a little more bedding and keep doing what you are doing.
Related Discussions
Need A Quick Fix for Nitrogen
Q
Comments (12)
It's the best place in the world to grow trees so long as it's the native trees you're trying to grow. they're already adapted to the local soil and water conditions. Your garden trees are from other conditions and won't necessarily do well in heavy clay. We have the opposite problem here. We have some of the most valuable timber growing land in the world here in western WA, but garden plants struggle to survive in our gravelly sandy soils - the same soils that produce some of the largest and oldest trees in the world. Worms are not native everywhere. If your land was recently cleared of native forest, and you have no worms, they're probably not native to your area. Worms tend not to like coniferous forests and I think East Texas is pine forest country. Try planting locally native stuff! I bet that will grow well. And lay off the compost and manure in the planting hole. You created clay pots in the ground when you dug out a hole in the clay and filled it with compost and manure. Clay pots with no drain holes, no less. You can mix in some compost with the clay backfill if you insist, but you should not totally replace the native soil in the planting hole. I bet that has something to do with your trees not growing well. If the land was clearcut and bulldozed, the soil life is probably all dead now. Compost tea will help it grow back (not alfalfa tea). Micorhizal (sp?) products can help too. Trees need micorhizal fungi in the soil in order to grow and removing the native trees and disturbing the soil usually kills them all off. Many trees are not able to pick up soil nutrients and water very well without their fungal partners. Clay soil should have some nitrogen in it, after all. It may not be a nitrogen deficiency at all. Your story suggests some more likely culprits.
...See More
Carbon-Nitrogen Ratios
Q
Comments (1)
I'd recommend taking a soil sample and getting it tested before adding fertilizers. If you want to go organic, I've posted an article called "How to Make Organic Garden Soil". If you just want to bring up the nitrogen, buy some lawn fertilizer and put that down. When Should I Fertilize My Lawn? Be careful the article on fertilizing your lawn states that too much nitrogen at the wrong time will just encourage weed growth. There's a chart on when to fertilize and what ratio to use. I think you might have time to add some fertilize before December. Here is a link that might be useful: How to Make Organic Garden Soil
...See More
Do nitrogenous products need to be buried to avoid evaporation?
Q
Comments (14)
Thank you so much for the responses everyone kimmq/kimmsr, you state in some of your other posts that you mulch with grass clippings and mulching with your compost in general is your preferred way to go to avoid disturbing the soil web. Do you chalk the potential of the nitrogen being lost to the air as a minute drawback compared to the drawback of which would occur if you tilled the clippings into the soil? Or is it only the already "dead" and brown grass clippings that you mulch on top while fresh green ones are utilized for something else that can make use of the high nitrogen and "green-ness." Thank you again gardengal, may I ask what you personally do with your 1. Brown waste that is carbon heavy 2. Veggie scraps that are nitrogen heavy 3.manure 4. Fresh green yard waste such as fresh grass clippings do you personally just mulch Everything on top indiscriminately? im thinking the best and most conservative way would be to put the greens down and mulch it over with Browns that way you save as much nitrogen from gassing off but also avoid disturbing anything in the soil web that would occur if one were to dig it in throgh soil
...See More
Soil Test Results - needing guidance
Q
Comments (16)
Dial her in? U of Delaware made the recommendations, which seem reasonable. Reasonable, yes, but commonly a bit simplistic and not very detailed. By "dial" I was referring mostly to the lime and Mg (do you think the OP might consider a split of lime between calcitic and dolomitic limes to bump Mg or maybe a bit less than 50 lbs as I believe you have been looking at lower soil pH (6.2ish? in the Mid-Atlantic States to reduce summer disease?), but also the total amounts of of the major cations (use of a TNPK?) needed for a long term plan (I do agree that with that CEC, "ideals" are unlikely attainable and "small and often" apps are preferred. Still, it's good to know where the target is) to achieve SLAN levels. Under these circumstances, ideally preparation would have begun a couple of months ago with aeration, lime and peat moss. There would have been plenty of time for things to settle out before the Fall seeding. The aeration and peat moss was a technique for improving turf conditions in general. In this case, I'd follow your recs and aerate and lime now. Seed in early Sept. (depending on the seed type and conditions, I might recomend slit seeding/vertical slicing) and lightly topdress the seed with peat moss. Late next Fall would be a better time to aerate again and fill with peat moss. EDIT: A 3 cubic foot bag of peat moss will topdress 3-400 square feet at around 1/8 to 1/4" depth if sprinkled on. I use a wheel barrow to hold it and a dustpan to sprinkle. Warning: Very labor intensive, but worth it IMO. Using peat moss to fill aeration holes varies in quantity. It depends on the number of holes. I always shot for 20/sq ft. On bare soil a bag will cover up to 500 sq ft (I'm filling holes, not leaving it on the surface). On established turf, much of it remains on the surface despite efforts to work it in. I am fortunate enough to have the tools. I aerate then throw the peat moss out in a pattern based on how much peat moss I could afford (I try to shoot for 300 sq feet per bag or $120 for my 3000sq ft front lawn. $120 is my limit, so it varied a bit based on that.) then use my rider and a drag to even it out and work it in. My experience was that it did make a significant impact. I did that every Fall for two years but not for the last five. Discounting my rock-heave issues, I can see that the peat moss effect is beginning to dissipate and if not for the rocks, it'd be time for another aerate/peat moss app. Four years isn't a bad return on my two year investment.
...See More
fosteem1
14 years ago
Gina, you want a lot more carbon in the mix than Nitrogen. Something like 20:1 to 40:1, aim for 30:1.

That said, the hardest thing for me to get my head around was that everything has some carbon and nitrogen in it. The 30:1 ratio can be the ratio of one item. For example the ratio for just coffee grounds is 13:73. Thirteen parts carbon to 73 parts nitrogen. And the ratio for cardboard is 377:79. But the ratio for both mixed together in equal amounts is 27:64. I would never be able to figure it out by myself. So i use a C:N Ratio calculator.

It is most definitely not mandatory to use a ratio calculator but it helps to give one an idea of how much of what needs to be in the bin. After you have used it for a while you will just 'know' how much is right.

This is a link to a calculator. Pick a food/bedding item. Punch in the amount added in Cubic feet and it will give the ratio. You want to try to keep the balance at each feeding. No biggie if your balance is off. But it is always better to have extra carbons as a buffer. The worms really do need a steady carbon supply.

Oh, 7.49 gallons in a cubic foot.

Here is a link that might be useful: C:N Ratio Calculator
rom.calgary.ab
14 years ago
here's a tidbit for ya ... fresh grass or leaves is a source of N ... dry them out and they're C. sounds like you get it already. there are all kinds of best practices out there but i think you'll find that worms take a pretty wide range of wet/dry, acid/alkaline, etc. learning the basics and then playing is part of the fun.
Katxena
14 years ago
I don't think there's a need to be exact about it. If your worms are consuming the C faster than the N, add more C. In practice, it's easier to monitor the wetness of the bin than the consumption rate of the various elements, and I find this to be a reasonable proxy for the consumption rate. So if my bin is too wet, I add more C, and if it's too dry, I add more N. It's an art, not a science.
sbryce_gw
14 years ago
If the food from the last feeding is mostly gone, I add more N. If the top layer of bedding is getting thin, I add more C.

It is pretty simple.
leearnold
14 years ago
This may help you:

http://www.klickitatcounty.org/SolidWaste/fileshtml/organics/compostCalc.htm

need guidance on carbon/nitrogen

Comments (7)

gmw1
Original Author

sbryce_gw

Related Discussions

fosteem1

rom.calgary.ab

Katxena

sbryce_gw

leearnold

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

need guidance on carbon/nitrogen

Comments (7)

gmw1Original Author

sbryce_gw

Related Discussions

fosteem1

rom.calgary.ab

Katxena

sbryce_gw

leearnold

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

gmw1
Original Author